My timeline, would like feedback

[Anh bob 0]

Hi all. I wrote my first draft of our timeline, and would like feedback if you care to read it. Thanks.

Robert XXXXX

XXXXX

XXXXX,New York

U.S. Consulate General.

Immigrant Visa Section

4 Le Duan St., District 01,

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam.

Re: Timeline of relationship with my wife, Ngoc XXXXX (DOB: April XX, 19XX Case number HCM XXXXXXXXXX).

I, Robert XXXXX, a citizen of the U.S., am the husband of Ngoc XXXXX, The following is a sworn affidavit documenting the timeline of our relationship from July 25, 2007 to the present.

I met Ngoc through a neighbor and longtime friend, Nguyen XXXXX, whom I have known for over 15 years.

My ex-wife and I separated in May of 1994, with her moving in with her mother. Our divorce was finalized in 2000. Since my separation in 1994 I had had no dating relationship with any woman. My son, Richard, and I lived in our house for the next several years until 1997 when financial considerations made it necessary for me and him to move in with my mother at XXXXX; next door to Nguyen XXXXX, who lives at XXXXX. He and I have had a neighborly relationship since he moved in next door to my mother.

In July of 2007 I was at his home in my capacity as a home improvement contractor, meeting informally about doing a small repair in his house. After looking over the situation we sat down for lunch. As I was casually glancing at a number of family pictures he had nearby, one, of an attractive young woman, caught my eye.

Responding to my questions, he told me she was his niece, Ngoc , and she was a single parent like me. I had asked Nguyen to call her to introduce me.

The first time I spoke with Ngoc on the phone was July 25, 2007. Nguyen called her with me on an extension. She spoke very little English at the time and I spoke no Vietnamese. We began to talk weekly at first; always with Nguyen as translator. At this time she started taking English lessons from a tutor. Soon we began sharing family history and getting to know each other. I learned she had two young children; a girl, XXXXX, and a boy, XXXXX, whom she supported by cooking food that she sold from a pushcart.

My life was pretty much limited ot working and being the best father I could be to Richard, my son. My long-distance relationship was a bright new hope in my life.

In September of 2007 I gave Ngoc my e-mail address over the phone in one conversation. On September 17, 2007 she initiated our first e-mail correspondence, to which I quickly replied. We developed a lively interchange, averaging about two messages from each of us weekly. She wrote in English, which was at first barely understandable, but got better as time went on. We found we could communicate directly, without Nguyen's help.

As we grew closer we commenced talking through Yahoo Messenger beginning on October 19, 2007; seeing each other live and in color with the webcam while typing instant messages. My messenger screen name is XXXXX; hers is XXXXX. I bought a webcam; Ngoc used one available in an internet café at her home in XXXXX. We continued to communicate in that way for almost six months.

I have saved all of our e-mail correspondence, as well as all of our Yahoo Messenger conversations since September of 2007.

Although we were physically on opposite sides of the world, those webcam conversations allowed our relationship to grow almost as if we were in the same room.

By mid November we knew we were in love and expressed it in our messages. I felt our relationship had become very serious. We had discussed marriage and were both very comfortable with it. The proposal came after many long conversations over the phone and over the internet. On November 16, 2007, as we were chatting on the webcam I asked her to marry me and during the course of the ensuing conversation she agreed.

We determined a course of action. I would go to Vietnam, where we would have a formal engagement party. I would then apply for fiancee visas for her and her children, which we thought would be the fastest way to bring them all to the United States. We planned a simple civil wedding within a month of her arrival, followed by a small reception for our families at a restaurant.

At that time, Richard and I were still living at my mother's house. Because Ngoc and her family and I would need our own house I moved to XXXXX, in the XXXXX suburb of XXXXX, New York. I chose XXXXX because it has an excellent school district and would offer Ngoc and the children a far safer and nicer place to live. I also purchased a van because I would need a larger vehicle for Ngoc and the children.

I flew to Vietnam the first time to meet Ngoc and her family on February 6, 2008, accompanied by Nguyen. We flew from New York to Ho Chi Minh City, stayed overnight with Nguyen's relatives, then flew the final XXX miles to XXXXX on February 8, 2008.

When we arrived atXXXXX airport Ngoc was there to meet us with many members of her family. She brought me flowers. In two vans we then proceeded to her home. Ngoc lives in a small gated family compound consisting of two houses; one in which she lives with the children and the other in which her parents live. We went directly to the home of her parents. I first stayed with them at night.

On February 12, 2008, we celebrated our engagement with a traditional engagement party, which included an exchange of rings. That night I moved into her home, while the children stayed with her parents.

During the visit to Vietnam I got to know Ngoc family very well. I quickly grew close to xxxxx and xxxxx, Ngoc children. Both have been calling me "Dad" since my first visit. XXXXX has picked up more English than XXXXX, and talks to me in English all the time.

The three weeks I remained in Vietnam after the engagement party were perhaps the happiest weeks of my life, as Ngoc and I spent virtually all of our time together; sometimes alone and sometimes sightseeing with her family. Most of the time Ngoc and I traveled tandem on her father's motorbike. On February 13 we went shopping at the market with Ngoc sister, Ngoc XXXXX. On February 14 we joined Ngoc XXXX father, her uncle, and various cousins and aunts for lunch at Uncle XXXXXX house. Beginning on February 14 we started staying in a hotel at night so the two of us could be together alone. We would spend the days with her family and return to the hotel at night. On February 24 we went sightseeing to the XXXXXX City, along with Ngoc XXXX children, her cousin, XXXXX, sister, Ngoc XXXX, and Ngoc XXXXX's husband, XXXXXX.

I left XXXX on March 3, 2008, and Ngoc came with me to Ho Chi Minh City, which is a XXX mile trip. She left her children behind so she could be with me as long as possible before I left for the United States on March 6, 2008. On arrival back in the United States I filed a fiancee petition as soon as I could, which the Service Center approved on June 23, 2008.

During this time we continued our regular conversations over the internet and webcam and telephone. Between March 7 and my departure on August 2, 2008, we were conversing by webcam and telephone approximately four times per week. On her birthday, April 2, 2008, I spoke with her for two hours on the phone.

I left XXXXX to return to Vietnam on August 2, 2008, to be with Ngoc as she prepared to move to the United States. I arrived in XXXXX the morning of August 4 and again was greeted by my fiancee with a bouquet of flowers. We began completing the necessary paperwork and preparing for the interview. We sent the paperwork to Ho Chi Minh City on August 6, 2008. We then proceeded to enjoy each other's company, sightseeing and shopping. It was Ngoc way of saying good-bye to her country.

On August 10 we went to the XXXXX hot springs. On August 18 we visited XXXXXX. On August 31 we went to XXXXXX.

On September 5, a few days before we left XXXX a lot of family members came to say good-bye. We left on September 7 to go to Ho Chi Minh City for the medical exam and preparations for her visa interview, scheduled for September 15. I accompanied her and her children to the embassy. I was at the embassy at the time of the interview, but was not permitted in the room.

On September 17, to our shock and horror we received a form refusing the visa on the grounds that the facts of our relationship "as ascertained by consular officers would convince a reasonable person that the claimed relationship is a sham, entered into solely for immigration purposes and to evade immigration laws." I submitted a request to meet with consul to ask for a reconsideration, but my request was denied.

On September 24 all four of us left Ho Chi Minh City to return to XXXXX. Though the consul's letter of refusal came as a surprise and a shock, it only strengthened our love and our determination to live together. Devastated, but determined to marry, we started making wedding plans. We filed the paperwork in the first week of October. We had to see the doctor for the mental competency exam.

On or about September 30 Ngoc and I flew back to Ho Chi Minh City, because I needed a paper to show my single status. Three days later we flew back to XXXXX to file the papers to start the marriage process. After filing the paperwork we started making wedding plans, sending out invitations, shopping for wedding rings, getting her wedding dress, and finding a place for the ceremony.

Prior to the wedding we had a pre-wedding party at the home of one of Ngoc cousins, on October 20, at which she wore a beautiful pink gown and I wore my best dark suit.

The ceremony took place in a restaurant in XXXXX on October 26, 2008, at 11:30 a.m. For the wedding Ngoc wore a striking Vietnamese traditional costume and then changed to a white wedding gown. We were both very happy to finally become husband and wife. We recorded the wedding at the XXXXX Committee Office four days later.

I remained with my wife and the children about two more weeks and returned to the United States on November 9, 2008. Our parting was depressing. I departed from XXXXX airport the evening of the ninth. Ngoc and other family members were there to say good-bye. Both she and I cried profusely.

Since returning to the United States my wife and I continue to communicate for hours at a time by Yahoo Messenger and by telephone.

Around April 29, 2009, or so she became sick with a cold or flu and was unable to go to the webcam. I felt bad that I could not be with her while she was sick, so I began calling her on the phone every day. We have talked every day on the phone since; at first for an hour a day and later for longer periods of time because an hour seemed too short a time. I use a calling card to keep the expense of these calls down. The numbers that I most commonly call for this purpose is: XXXXXXXXXX. XXXXXXXXXX. I can provide these calling cards if you need to see them.

Because of all the difficulties we had encountered after her first interview I have felt it necessary to save as many documents as I can to prove that this is a bona fide relationship and not a sham, as the embassy has alleged.

I first flew to Vietnam on February 6, 2008, and stayed until March 6, 2008. On the second trip I arrived in Vietnam on August 3, 2008, and stayed three months until November 9, 2008.

I plan on flying back to Vietnam again, hopefully in September of 2009 to be with my wife and help her finish the paperwork that needs to be submitted to the embassy in preparation for her spousal visa interview.

I found a woman that I love very much. More importantly, I found in her what I have been looking for all my life. She is my life, my love, and I want to spend the rest of my life with her.

She is always there for me, patiently listening to my problems, shares her opinions and thoughts, and I do the same for her.

Last but not least, the most important thing in marriage is to love and be loved. I definitely find that with Ngoc . She is a very loving and passionate woman who values family very much. I never imagined I would find the love of my life halfway around the world and now I can’t imagine a day without her in my life. She has become a part of my family as I have become a part of hers.

Ngoc and I still remain in regular contact while we’re apart from each other. We also look forward to starting our lives together as husband and wife when she arrives here in the U.S.

Because my wife and I share a deep love and a profound commitment to each other I hope the Service will recognize that our relationship is bona fide in every way, and will act on my petition accordingly.

I, Robert XXXXXX , a citizen of the U.S and currently reside at XXXXX, do hereby state that the above is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge.

______________________________ _______________________________

Name Signature

[ScottThuy 140]

Good job... I think there was a typo or two. I can't see them denying at this point after all you have done and the documentation you have now.

Edited August 30, 2009 by ScottThuy

[Anh map 2,098]

OK, looking at this as a CO and playing devil's advocate; Your's is a nice story, but thin on substance.

You ought to give the detail (where and with whom, especially if family) of what you did during time in VN (2/14-3/3), (8/2-9/5), (10/26-11/9). Remember that your current petition is considered along with your previous K1 petition. You are having to prove the legitimacy of something that has been seen as arranged for immigration purposes. Lack of detail when there is suspicion of fraud works against you. No need to include minutiae, but give details/info that show your knowledge of each other growing.

How often was the uncle doing the translating? I would want to see that time frame be as short as possible.

You ought to call Ngoc's initial wedding dress by its name, ao dai.

The references to staying at the hotel alone aren't really relevant. Plus it's against the law in VN (not that many of us haven't broken that law). Given that there are questions regarding her intentions might be better to not put that in writing.

Give detail about the things that you discuss rather than covering it all in a blanket statement (She is always there for me....). Have you discussed what she will do when she arrives in the US (work, homemaker, school)? Does she have ideas about decorating the house? Talk about discussing "husband & wife" types of things. Does your son interact with Ngoc? Webchat? E-mail? If so, tell about that.

Have you also created a list of Ngoc's family in the US? Are there many more living in close proximity to where you live? Have you met them? This can cut both ways, but it will be a part of the interview so better to have it all prepared.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Your K1 was denied because the CO felt you were rushing through the process as fast as humanly possible. Asking her to marry you, before you've physically met and only 4 months after first contact, probably set off skyrockets to the CO. Three months later you made your first visit to physically meet your new fiance, having already proposed. Four days after arriving, you had a traditional engagement ceremony. Immediately after returning to the US (you don't say exactly when) you filed a K1 petition. Your petition was approved June 23, 2008 - less than 11 months since you first spoke to your fiance.

Your situation didn't improve much on your second visit. A little over a month after the K1 visa was denied you were married. Given the preparation time needed for a foreigner to legally marry in Vietnam (which you documented), you did this about as quickly as it could possibly be done. You then filed for a CR1 a little over a month after you returned to the US.

In many ways, your timeline reads a lot like mine. I first began communicating with my fiancee around the same time you did. My fiancee petition was approved just last week. In that same amount of time, you petitioned for a fiance visa, were denied the visa at the interview, got married in VN, petitioned for a CR1, and your CR1 petition was approved before my K1 petition. In all honesty, you would have been hard pressed to get all that done in less time.

In your timeline you really need to address why your relationship progressed so quickly, and why you acted so quickly at each stage, because a fast track relationship like that is not customary in VN. If you can't convince the CO that there is a valid reason for the time warp, your CR1 is likely to be denied as well.

Anh Map is correct about the hotel. Most hotels won't ask questions if they know the lady friend you're taking to your room isn't a prostitute, especially if they've seen her accompanied by family when she's with you. Strictly speaking, though, it is illegal for a foreigner to have a Vietnamese national of the opposite sex alone in their hotel room unless they are married. There's nothing wrong with saying you stayed in a hotel, or that she visited you, but you're specifically saying you stayed in the hotel so that you two could be alone.

Also, strictly speaking, if you stayed in her home then your name should have been entered in her household register, or "Ho Khau". The consulate isn't going to rat you out to the local cops in her town for not registering, but they might ask your wife about it if you claim to have stayed there, but her Ho Khau (which must be submitted at the interview) doesn't confirm it. Also, some districts apply the same rules in private residences as they do in hotels, and don't allow foreigners to stay there.

It might be better if you just didn't talk about the sleeping arrangements at all.

[vietazn 1]

I'll go out and say it. Barring a miracle or serious connections, it's not approvable based on the reasonable person standard:

The relationship has already been given sham mark, which probably follows you forever.

Relationship with the uncle ---> money and/or services are being transacted.

Proposing before meeting in person.

Those three are damning, and combined with statements like the following paint an overall negative picture of someone really desperate to get to the US:

Planning course of action for fastest way to bring them to United States.

Leaving her children behind so she could be with me as long as possible before you left.

But of course, hope that the truth shall set you free.

Edited August 30, 2009 by vietazn

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Relationship with the uncle ---> money and/or services are being transacted.

This would have been worse if he was a full time employee of the uncle, which would put the uncle in a position to exert pressure on him to establish a relationship with the uncle's niece or risk losing his job. Since he's a contractor, the uncle could only dangle the one contract job over his head. Still possible, but less likely. If it had been the other way around, and he had hired the uncle to do some contract work, it would be much less of a problem.

It's common for USC's to be introduced to VN fiancee's by family members. They often turn out to be uncles or aunts. Immigration attorney's call them "Uncle Boom Boom"!

The relationship with the uncle does need to be thoroughly addressed because it can raise suspicion. It looks like he attempted to do this in his timeline. I'm not sure what else he could say about this that would make any difference.

[thongd4me 69]

Hi all. I wrote my first draft of our timeline, and would like feedback if you care to read it. Thanks.

Robert XXXXX

XXXXX

XXXXX,New York

U.S. Consulate General.

Immigrant Visa Section

4 Le Duan St., District 01,

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam.

Re: Timeline of relationship with my wife, Ngoc XXXXX (DOB: April XX, 19XX Case number HCM XXXXXXXXXX).

I, Robert XXXXX, a citizen of the U.S., am the husband of Ngoc XXXXX, The following is a sworn affidavit documenting the timeline of our relationship from July 25, 2007 to the present.

I met Ngoc through a neighbor and longtime friend, Nguyen XXXXX, whom I have known for over 15 years.

My ex-wife and I separated in May of 1994, with her moving in with her mother. Our divorce was finalized in 2000. Since my separation in 1994 I had had no dating relationship with any woman. My son, Richard, and I lived in our house for the next several years until 1997 when financial considerations made it necessary for me and him to move in with my mother at XXXXX; next door to Nguyen XXXXX, who lives at XXXXX. He and I have had a neighborly relationship since he moved in next door to my mother.

In July of 2007 I was at his home in my capacity as a home improvement contractor, meeting informally about doing a small repair in his house. After looking over the situation we sat down for lunch. As I was casually glancing at a number of family pictures he had nearby, one, of an attractive young woman, caught my eye.

Responding to my questions, he told me she was his niece, Ngoc , and she was a single parent like me. I had asked Nguyen to call her to introduce me.

The first time I spoke with Ngoc on the phone was July 25, 2007. Nguyen called her with me on an extension. She spoke very little English at the time and I spoke no Vietnamese. We began to talk weekly at first; always with Nguyen as translator. At this time she started taking English lessons from a tutor. Soon we began sharing family history and getting to know each other. I learned she had two young children; a girl, XXXXX, and a boy, XXXXX, whom she supported by cooking food that she sold from a pushcart.

My life was pretty much limited ot working and being the best father I could be to Richard, my son. My long-distance relationship was a bright new hope in my life.

In September of 2007 I gave Ngoc my e-mail address over the phone in one conversation. On September 17, 2007 she initiated our first e-mail correspondence, to which I quickly replied. We developed a lively interchange, averaging about two messages from each of us weekly. She wrote in English, which was at first barely understandable, but got better as time went on. We found we could communicate directly, without Nguyen's help.

As we grew closer we commenced talking through Yahoo Messenger beginning on October 19, 2007; seeing each other live and in color with the webcam while typing instant messages. My messenger screen name is XXXXX; hers is XXXXX. I bought a webcam; Ngoc used one available in an internet café at her home in XXXXX. We continued to communicate in that way for almost six months.

I have saved all of our e-mail correspondence, as well as all of our Yahoo Messenger conversations since September of 2007.

Although we were physically on opposite sides of the world, those webcam conversations allowed our relationship to grow almost as if we were in the same room.

By mid November we knew we were in love and expressed it in our messages. I felt our relationship had become very serious. We had discussed marriage and were both very comfortable with it. The proposal came after many long conversations over the phone and over the internet. On November 16, 2007, as we were chatting on the webcam I asked her to marry me and during the course of the ensuing conversation she agreed.

We determined a course of action. I would go to Vietnam, where we would have a formal engagement party. I would then apply for fiancee visas for her and her children, which we thought would be the fastest way to bring them all to the United States. We planned a simple civil wedding within a month of her arrival, followed by a small reception for our families at a restaurant.

At that time, Richard and I were still living at my mother's house. Because Ngoc and her family and I would need our own house I moved to XXXXX, in the XXXXX suburb of XXXXX, New York. I chose XXXXX because it has an excellent school district and would offer Ngoc and the children a far safer and nicer place to live. I also purchased a van because I would need a larger vehicle for Ngoc and the children.

I flew to Vietnam the first time to meet Ngoc and her family on February 6, 2008, accompanied by Nguyen. We flew from New York to Ho Chi Minh City, stayed overnight with Nguyen's relatives, then flew the final XXX miles to XXXXX on February 8, 2008.

When we arrived atXXXXX airport Ngoc was there to meet us with many members of her family. She brought me flowers. In two vans we then proceeded to her home. Ngoc lives in a small gated family compound consisting of two houses; one in which she lives with the children and the other in which her parents live. We went directly to the home of her parents. I first stayed with them at night.

On February 12, 2008, we celebrated our engagement with a traditional engagement party, which included an exchange of rings. That night I moved into her home, while the children stayed with her parents.

During the visit to Vietnam I got to know Ngoc family very well. I quickly grew close to xxxxx and xxxxx, Ngoc children. Both have been calling me "Dad" since my first visit. XXXXX has picked up more English than XXXXX, and talks to me in English all the time.

The three weeks I remained in Vietnam after the engagement party were perhaps the happiest weeks of my life, as Ngoc and I spent virtually all of our time together; sometimes alone and sometimes sightseeing with her family. Most of the time Ngoc and I traveled tandem on her father's motorbike. On February 13 we went shopping at the market with Ngoc sister, Ngoc XXXXX. On February 14 we joined Ngoc XXXX father, her uncle, and various cousins and aunts for lunch at Uncle XXXXXX house. Beginning on February 14 we started staying in a hotel at night so the two of us could be together alone. We would spend the days with her family and return to the hotel at night. On February 24 we went sightseeing to the XXXXXX City, along with Ngoc XXXX children, her cousin, XXXXX, sister, Ngoc XXXX, and Ngoc XXXXX's husband, XXXXXX.

I left XXXX on March 3, 2008, and Ngoc came with me to Ho Chi Minh City, which is a XXX mile trip. She left her children behind so she could be with me as long as possible before I left for the United States on March 6, 2008. On arrival back in the United States I filed a fiancee petition as soon as I could, which the Service Center approved on June 23, 2008.

During this time we continued our regular conversations over the internet and webcam and telephone. Between March 7 and my departure on August 2, 2008, we were conversing by webcam and telephone approximately four times per week. On her birthday, April 2, 2008, I spoke with her for two hours on the phone.

I left XXXXX to return to Vietnam on August 2, 2008, to be with Ngoc as she prepared to move to the United States. I arrived in XXXXX the morning of August 4 and again was greeted by my fiancee with a bouquet of flowers. We began completing the necessary paperwork and preparing for the interview. We sent the paperwork to Ho Chi Minh City on August 6, 2008. We then proceeded to enjoy each other's company, sightseeing and shopping. It was Ngoc way of saying good-bye to her country.

On August 10 we went to the XXXXX hot springs. On August 18 we visited XXXXXX. On August 31 we went to XXXXXX.

On September 5, a few days before we left XXXX a lot of family members came to say good-bye. We left on September 7 to go to Ho Chi Minh City for the medical exam and preparations for her visa interview, scheduled for September 15. I accompanied her and her children to the embassy. I was at the embassy at the time of the interview, but was not permitted in the room.

On September 17, to our shock and horror we received a form refusing the visa on the grounds that the facts of our relationship "as ascertained by consular officers would convince a reasonable person that the claimed relationship is a sham, entered into solely for immigration purposes and to evade immigration laws." I submitted a request to meet with consul to ask for a reconsideration, but my request was denied.

On September 24 all four of us left Ho Chi Minh City to return to XXXXX. Though the consul's letter of refusal came as a surprise and a shock, it only strengthened our love and our determination to live together. Devastated, but determined to marry, we started making wedding plans. We filed the paperwork in the first week of October. We had to see the doctor for the mental competency exam.

On or about September 30 Ngoc and I flew back to Ho Chi Minh City, because I needed a paper to show my single status. Three days later we flew back to XXXXX to file the papers to start the marriage process. After filing the paperwork we started making wedding plans, sending out invitations, shopping for wedding rings, getting her wedding dress, and finding a place for the ceremony.

Prior to the wedding we had a pre-wedding party at the home of one of Ngoc cousins, on October 20, at which she wore a beautiful pink gown and I wore my best dark suit.

The ceremony took place in a restaurant in XXXXX on October 26, 2008, at 11:30 a.m. For the wedding Ngoc wore a striking Vietnamese traditional costume and then changed to a white wedding gown. We were both very happy to finally become husband and wife. We recorded the wedding at the XXXXX Committee Office four days later.

I remained with my wife and the children about two more weeks and returned to the United States on November 9, 2008. Our parting was depressing. I departed from XXXXX airport the evening of the ninth. Ngoc and other family members were there to say good-bye. Both she and I cried profusely.

Since returning to the United States my wife and I continue to communicate for hours at a time by Yahoo Messenger and by telephone.

Around April 29, 2009, or so she became sick with a cold or flu and was unable to go to the webcam. I felt bad that I could not be with her while she was sick, so I began calling her on the phone every day. We have talked every day on the phone since; at first for an hour a day and later for longer periods of time because an hour seemed too short a time. I use a calling card to keep the expense of these calls down. The numbers that I most commonly call for this purpose is: XXXXXXXXXX. XXXXXXXXXX. I can provide these calling cards if you need to see them.

Because of all the difficulties we had encountered after her first interview I have felt it necessary to save as many documents as I can to prove that this is a bona fide relationship and not a sham, as the embassy has alleged.

I first flew to Vietnam on February 6, 2008, and stayed until March 6, 2008. On the second trip I arrived in Vietnam on August 3, 2008, and stayed three months until November 9, 2008.

I plan on flying back to Vietnam again, hopefully in September of 2009 to be with my wife and help her finish the paperwork that needs to be submitted to the embassy in preparation for her spousal visa interview.

I found a woman that I love very much. More importantly, I found in her what I have been looking for all my life. She is my life, my love, and I want to spend the rest of my life with her.

She is always there for me, patiently listening to my problems, shares her opinions and thoughts, and I do the same for her.

Last but not least, the most important thing in marriage is to love and be loved. I definitely find that with Ngoc . She is a very loving and passionate woman who values family very much. I never imagined I would find the love of my life halfway around the world and now I can’t imagine a day without her in my life. She has become a part of my family as I have become a part of hers.

Ngoc and I still remain in regular contact while we’re apart from each other. We also look forward to starting our lives together as husband and wife when she arrives here in the U.S.

Because my wife and I share a deep love and a profound commitment to each other I hope the Service will recognize that our relationship is bona fide in every way, and will act on my petition accordingly.

I, Robert XXXXXX , a citizen of the U.S and currently reside at XXXXX, do hereby state that the above is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge.

______________________________ _______________________________

Name Signature

Great story Robert. If you don't get the visa I would be very surprised. You might run it through the MSWord spell-checker before you send it.

I felt some synergy there because I too hooked up with another single parent.

There are definite challenges (not impossible to overcome, but

still challenging) when one member of the couple is a parent and the other is not.

I chatted with many online friends who were single, never married and they all seemed

to turn off when there was any mention of my kids. Those that also had kids were always

more sympathetic.

[Anh bob 0]

Hello everyone. Thank you all for your feedback.

You ought to give the detail (where and with whom, especially if family) of what you did during time in VN (2/14-3/3), (8/2-9/5), (10/26-11/9).

I will add more detail for this.

How often was the uncle doing the translating? He was only translating for a week or so.

You ought to call Ngoc's initial wedding dress by its name, ao dai. ....Does this really matter what I call it?

Give detail about the things that you discuss rather than covering it all in a blanket statement (She is always there for me....). Have you discussed what she will do when she arrives in the US (work, homemaker, school)? Does she have ideas about decorating the house? Talk about discussing "husband & wife" types of things. .......Thanks, I will add more and talk about that

Does your son interact with Ngoc? Webchat? E-mail? If so, tell about that.......OK

Have you also created a list of Ngoc's family in the US? Are there many more living in close proximity to where you live? Have you met them? This can cut both ways, but it will be a part of the interview so better to have it all prepared. ....She has only 1 aunt and 1 uncle in the USA. She has cousins from the aunt and uncle, but last year when she had her interview, the CO wasn't interested in cousins.

In your timeline you really need to address why your relationship progressed so quickly, and why you acted so quickly at each stage, because a fast track relationship like that is not customary in VN. If you can't convince the CO that there is a valid reason for the time warp, your CR1 is likely to be denied as well........The relationship progressed quickly because we met, fell in love, and want to be together forever.We are not youngsters......she is in her late 30's, and I am in my late 40's. It is very difficult being apart from each other, the only thing that matters is us being together. If she is unable to come to America, I am willing to move to Vietnam, as long as we can be together.

It might be better if you just didn't talk about the sleeping arrangements at all.........I thought it was always said to tell the truth, and about the sleeping arrangements.....when the lawyer sent in the I-130, he also sent in an affidated. Some of my timeline says the same things the lawyer sent in, so I'm worried if I change what I say, they already have the information when the I-130 was sent in.

The relationship has already been given sham mark, which probably follows you forever.

Relationship with the uncle ---> money and/or services are being transacted........I was at his home in my capacity as a home improvement contractor, meeting informally about doing a small repair in his house. After looking over the situation we sat down for lunch. .....We only talked about doing a small repair......no money exchanged hands...thus meeting informally

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

You ought to call Ngoc's initial wedding dress by its name, ao dai. ....Does this really matter what I call it?

It's the national costume of Vietnam, and you're married to a Vietnamese woman. Your timeline is going to be read by a consular officer who lives in Vietnam. You can bet that they know what it's called, what it means in English, and how to pronounce it in every dialect of Vietnamese. It's not essential you call it "áo dài", or even "ao dai", but doing so will at least give the CO the impression that you've learned a little about Vietnamese culture and traditions. I must have heard the name 100 times, and said it myself as many times, in the months preparing for our "đính hôn" ceremony.

Have you also created a list of Ngoc's family in the US? Are there many more living in close proximity to where you live? Have you met them? This can cut both ways, but it will be a part of the interview so better to have it all prepared. ....She has only 1 aunt and 1 uncle in the USA. She has cousins from the aunt and uncle, but last year when she had her interview, the CO wasn't interested in cousins.

It's very common for CO's in HCM to ask for a list of relatives in the US, including addresses and phone numbers. They also often want to know how the relatives immigrated, especially the women. They are looking for a pattern of immigration by marriage to USC's. You can diffuse this line of investigation by providing the list.

In your timeline you really need to address why your relationship progressed so quickly, and why you acted so quickly at each stage, because a fast track relationship like that is not customary in VN. If you can't convince the CO that there is a valid reason for the time warp, your CR1 is likely to be denied as well........The relationship progressed quickly because we met, fell in love, and want to be together forever.We are not youngsters......she is in her late 30's, and I am in my late 40's. It is very difficult being apart from each other, the only thing that matters is us being together. If she is unable to come to America, I am willing to move to Vietnam, as long as we can be together.

You should emphasize the point I bolded. If the CO believes you're serious then it will reduce their suspicion that the relationship is a sham for immigration.

Some aspects of Vietnamese tradition and culture are less important with an older couple. For example, it's less important that the engagement ceremony take place in the parental home of the fiancee if she doesn't live in that home anymore. However, some things are still culturally important. The CO's are very well aware of Vietnamese traditions and culture. The Vietnamese do not rush into an engagement or marriage. This is to give the family members time to get to know the person who will become a member of their family, especially the elders of the family. It's less common for the parents of the couple to arrange the marriage when the couple are older, but it is still important that they approve of the union. A Vietnamese woman of any age would not want to dishonor her family by marrying someone they did not approve of.

Dates for important events are selected well in advance, according to their belief that specific dates will result in good fortune for the couple. Fortune tellers are consulted to select the best date for an engagement or wedding. Plans are made well in advance, the color and style of the ao dai are selected, and ao dai for the man and woman are often custom tailored. Important members of the families are invited to the ceremony, with ample time in case they have to travel for the event. All of the extended family, including friends of the couple, are invited to the party afterward. A typical engagement party may have 200 guests or more. An engagement involves an entire community of people. Besides celebrating the couple's relationship, it serves as a formal announcement to the community that these two people are now officially "off the market". Obviously, this takes some planning, and it isn't cheap! Well, maybe it's cheap by American standards.

It also helps tremendously if either your parents or a happily married couple from your family travels to Vietnam to represent your family in the ceremony. The CO doesn't expect to see your whole family in the procession to your fiancee's home. They know this isn't practical, so they expect to see "proxies" from Vietnamese families who are close to your fiancee's family. But, it is important in Vietnamese culture for a member of your family to represent you.

Your wife isn't from Canada or England. The consulate in HCM is one of the toughest consulates in the world to get a fiancee or spousal visa because it's one of the highest fraud countries in the world. You can't just meet the minimum requirements there and expect to get a visa. You have to take your time and go all out, like a sincere Vietnamese couple would.

It might be better if you just didn't talk about the sleeping arrangements at all.........I thought it was always said to tell the truth, and about the sleeping arrangements.....when the lawyer sent in the I-130, he also sent in an affidated. Some of my timeline says the same things the lawyer sent in, so I'm worried if I change what I say, they already have the information when the I-130 was sent in.

I'm not suggesting you change anything you said previously. I'm saying it isn't relevant in the timeline, and can only raise questions that might be difficult to answer. Just leave this stuff out. You don't have to reiterate everything you said in any other statement. Just don't contradict it. Go ahead and say you stayed in a hotel, but don't make a point of saying she stayed there with you.

[NgocThuan 0]

It's scary how much Jim and Anh map know about Vietnamese culture and the HCMC Consulate; I wonder if they moonlight as undercover agents for the State Department. Anyways, their advice is sound. I don't believe that your case is hopeless; but it is hard to overcome that initial allegation of a sham relationship. I just finished putting a timeline together for another couple that asked Thuan if I could help them. Neither one spoke English; he is Chinese and she is Vietnamese, but he could speak Vietnamese a little. They knew each other for about 2 months before he proposed on the phone. He came to Vietnam for the wedding and three other times; each visit for 1 month and about 1 visit per year. They tried 3 times to get k3 approved and on this 4th try they got a blue, asking for another timeline. The timeline they submitted was prepared by one of those guaranteed visa agencies and after looking at it, I must say for 500 dollars they got about 5 dollars worth. It was short and lacking important details. For a couple that has been married for over 3 years, I would expect more than 2 pages; actually it was only 1 and 1/2 pages because half of the last page was taken up by a list of relatives and a statement that he had changed his name to an American name. So they had redflags and they tried and failed a few times and continue to try to overcome that initial stigma of being a sham couple. You may face the same, but I think you have a better chance because you are addressing the problems encountered last time and seem to have prepared well for your upcoming interview. Your timeline is well done, just make the changes per Anh map and Jim's advice. Also, make sure that she is well prepared for the interview; let her know to display confidence and maintain eye contact with the CO; don't lean or slump but stand erect, and of course tell her to smile. Good luck!

[David-Hien 11]

Hello everyone. Thank you all for your feedback.

You ought to give the detail (where and with whom, especially if family) of what you did during time in VN (2/14-3/3), (8/2-9/5), (10/26-11/9).

I will add more detail for this.

How often was the uncle doing the translating? He was only translating for a week or so.

You ought to call Ngoc's initial wedding dress by its name, ao dai. ....Does this really matter what I call it?

Give detail about the things that you discuss rather than covering it all in a blanket statement (She is always there for me....). Have you discussed what she will do when she arrives in the US (work, homemaker, school)? Does she have ideas about decorating the house? Talk about discussing "husband & wife" types of things. .......Thanks, I will add more and talk about that

Does your son interact with Ngoc? Webchat? E-mail? If so, tell about that.......OK

Have you also created a list of Ngoc's family in the US? Are there many more living in close proximity to where you live? Have you met them? This can cut both ways, but it will be a part of the interview so better to have it all prepared. ....She has only 1 aunt and 1 uncle in the USA. She has cousins from the aunt and uncle, but last year when she had her interview, the CO wasn't interested in cousins.

In your timeline you really need to address why your relationship progressed so quickly, and why you acted so quickly at each stage, because a fast track relationship like that is not customary in VN. If you can't convince the CO that there is a valid reason for the time warp, your CR1 is likely to be denied as well........The relationship progressed quickly because we met, fell in love, and want to be together forever.We are not youngsters......she is in her late 30's, and I am in my late 40's. It is very difficult being apart from each other, the only thing that matters is us being together. If she is unable to come to America, I am willing to move to Vietnam, as long as we can be together.

It might be better if you just didn't talk about the sleeping arrangements at all.........I thought it was always said to tell the truth, and about the sleeping arrangements.....when the lawyer sent in the I-130, he also sent in an affidated. Some of my timeline says the same things the lawyer sent in, so I'm worried if I change what I say, they already have the information when the I-130 was sent in.

The relationship has already been given sham mark, which probably follows you forever.

Relationship with the uncle ---> money and/or services are being transacted........I was at his home in my capacity as a home improvement contractor, meeting informally about doing a small repair in his house. After looking over the situation we sat down for lunch. .....We only talked about doing a small repair......no money exchanged hands...thus meeting informally

Please be careful on what you said an old couple for reason of quick time in engagement. If you are old but this is the first marriage, it is ok. However, if it is the second marriage for both of you, it is not ok according to Vietnamese tradition. An engagement looks odd for an old couple in Vietnam.

If you are American man, your fiance may have to face an interview in English. She should learn English as much as possible. This is the most important factor in your visa application to decide your success.

[vietazn 1]

Confusion over your relationship with the uncle. First you say he is a longtime friend and neighbor. Then you state that you have a neighborly relationship with him. But suddenly you say that you are in his house in the relationship of home improvement contractor, which implies money or services are being transacted (look at the word contractor, it implies a contract, which itself implies some transaction). Then you respond that there is no transaction. Which brings the question, why do you say you are in his house in the role of contractor at all? Why aren't you still in the role of a friend using your knowledge and skills to help fix something?

[thongd4me 69]

To the OC, I did skim over your timeline a bit too fast, but after having re-read it,

my reading between the lines makes me feel that her English, although adequate

to communicate with you, may have been the reason for the rejection by the CO.

Also, in her emails, did she ever employ a professional "letter writer?"

The CO may have been looking for some "giveaway phrases" used

by "the pros" and rejected the application on that basis.

She should work on that harder and although she will have an uphill climb, take

all of the good (above posters) advice given and have good posture & smile too.

I'm sure her love for you is real and that may have made her think only of the

bad side (what if I'm not approved?) and she may have showed that without

intending to. Confidence Confidence Confidence

You may also put forward more evidence of her children's closeness with you,

which should not be too difficult.

[Anh map 2,098]

Bob, we aren't trying to nitpick. As you go through the fiance(e)/spouse process at the HCMC consulate you learn to think as a HCMC consular officer. They have seen so much fraud there that we all end up being held to a higher standard than many other couples from different countries. No reason to complain, just facts is facts.

Tradition matters a lot. The more you can show yourself being integrated into that tradition, the stronger your case will be.

You want to front load your petition (include more evidence and information) so that when it lands in HCMC the CO will have more to read when they do their prep work for the interview. Take some time and read back through this forum and see where folks have been successful and where they have been tripped up. Take all those experiences and apply it to your petition. The extra work will payoff with the visa and you together with Ngoc.

Keep the questions coming. You are part of a good group here on VJ

[cavoi xanh1 0]

Bob, we aren't trying to nitpick. As you go through the fiance(e)/spouse process at the HCMC consulate you learn to think as a HCMC consular officer. They have seen so much fraud there that we all end up being held to a higher standard than many other couples from different countries. No reason to complain, just facts is facts.

Tradition matters a lot. The more you can show yourself being integrated into that tradition, the stronger your case will be.

You want to front load your petition (include more evidence and information) so that when it lands in HCMC the CO will have more to read when they do their prep work for the interview. Take some time and read back through this forum and see where folks have been successful and where they have been tripped up. Take all those experiences and apply it to your petition. The extra work will payoff with the visa and you together with Ngoc.

Keep the questions coming. You are part of a good group here on VJ

wow- at first i thought you guys on here were being a bit harsh- but as I reread the OP and the subsequent comments- the feedback was very constructive. good luck to anh bob and all... now i feel concerned about my time lime (:-D)