We Ration. We Ration. We Ration. We Ration.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Ezra Klein, Washington Post

"Look at Canada," says Charles Krauthammer. "Look at Britain. They got hooked; now they ration. So will we."

So do we. This is not an arguable proposition. It is not a difference of opinion, or a conversation about semantics. We ration. We ration without discussion, remorse or concern. We ration health care the way we ration other goods: We make it too expensive for everyone to afford.

I've used these numbers before, but let's repeat them. A 2001 survey by the policy journal Health Affairs found that 38 percent of Britons and 27 percent of Canadians reported waiting four months or more for elective surgery. Among Americans, that number was only 5 percent. This, Americans will tell you, is the true measure of our system's performance. We have our problems. But at least we don't sit in some European purgatory languishing without our treatments. That's rationing.

There is, however, a flip side to that. The very same survey also looked at cost problems among residents of different countries: 24 percent of Americans reported that they did not get medical care because of cost. Twenty-six percent said they didn't fill a prescription. And 22 percent said they didn't get a test or treatment. In Britain and Canada, only about 6 percent of respondents reported that costs had limited their access to care.

The numbers are almost mirror images of each other. Twenty-seven percent of Canadians wait more than four months for treatment, versus only four percent of Americans. Twenty-four percent of Americans can't afford medical care at all, versus only 6 percent of Canadians. And the American numbers are understated because if you can't afford your first appointment, you never learn you couldn't afford the medicine or test that the doctor would have prescribed.

We ration. And if the numbers and the surveys don't convince you of the point, this is what it looks like when we ration.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klei..._we_ration.html

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Interestingly, the 'wait' in Canada is also for "ELECTIVE" surgery. Elective surgery is by choice, not necessity. The decision about whether something is elective or necessity is also decided by the doctor, not the insurance company. Necessary surgery happens right away. No need to wait for permission or try to find an 'approved' doctor or care facility as in the US.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Kathryn41

[Otto 83]

Ezra Klein - glorified blogger - just trying to get his name out there by jumping on the controversial side of health care..

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I wonder why we are pushing what will be mediocre reforms at best, when we should be making a choice over what is already working in other countries, say Canada. But that is not the legislation that will be considered in a couple months, not even close, save the one option in my siggy. So, these arguments and all this rhetoric in the press and the town hall meetings do nothing but piss off an already confused and timid Congress.

[Danno 1,228]

Spin it anyway you want, the truth is our Healthcare system works great for nearly everyone... it's just to expensive.

I called my Doctors office at 3:45 last week because I have been having a minor pain in my side for a month or so.

I had an appointment the next morning at 9;30

I waiting in the waiting room no more than 5 minutes.

After he couldn't find anything, he sent me to the Hospital for a scan. Appointment at 1:30 so quick I barely made the *No eating 4 hours prior* rule. (I had cereal for Breakfast).

Everyone will be glad to know all was fine

I have waited more at Dentist offices than Doctors offices.

People in my family have had years of experience with insurance and I don't recall any rationing or problems what-so-ever.

The most dodgy experiences I have had was when my medical care was in the hands of the government..... but even then it was acceptable.

Obama has not shown me how he is going to do magic and change the COST, in fact Stephen:

When a Government program can not even do enough smoke and mirrors to demonstrate fiscal logic in the beginning..... there is no limit to what it will end up costing.

We need to go back to the drawing board.

[Heracles 417]

Interestingly, the 'wait' in Canada is also for "ELECTIVE" surgery. Elective surgery is by choice, not necessity. The decision about whether something is elective or necessity is also decided by the doctor, not the insurance company. Necessary surgery happens right away. No need to wait for permission or try to find an 'approved' doctor or care facility as in the US.

Funny how they always use that point but fail to understand what elective means. Someone without a job; Yes one of the 6,500,000 million Americans will wait indefinitely as elective surgery is not even an option for them. You cannot walk into an ER and demand elective surgery in the US. Plus if you do visit the emergency room and must have an operation without insurance, you are basically bankrupt after that. Unless people like Marc, Danno, Charles and Gary have $100K sitting in the bank. Oh wait they cannot lose their job; they must be the untouchables. Or CEOs of fortune 500 companies. Who knew..

[Heracles 417]

Spin it anyway you want, the truth is our Healthcare system works great for nearly everyone... it's just to expensive.

I called my Doctors office at 3:45 last week because I have been having a minor pain in my side for a month or so.

I had an appointment the next morning at 9;30

I waiting in the waiting room no more than 5 minutes.

After he couldn't find anything, he sent me to the Hospital for a scan. Appointment at 1:30 so quick I barely made the *No eating 4 hours prior* rule. (I had cereal for Breakfast).

Everyone will be glad to know all was fine

NHS in AUS.

I would call my doctor at 5:00pm and had an appointment at 10:00am the next day.

Waited 10 minutes

Had to have a chest x-ray. Went to the private Catholic hospital (Cabrini) and waited 10 minutes - Covered by my supplemental insurance.

Might have waited 30 minutes at a public facility. - but at no cost

Edited August 29, 2009 by haza

[AlHayatZween 2]

I called my Doctors office at 3:45 last week because I have been having a minor pain in my side for a month or so.

I had an appointment the next morning at 9;30

I waiting in the waiting room no more than 5 minutes.

After he couldn't find anything, he sent me to the Hospital for a scan. Appointment at 1:30 so quick I barely made the *No eating 4 hours prior* rule. (I had cereal for Breakfast).

Everyone will be glad to know all was fine smile.gif

I have waited more at Dentist offices than Doctors offices.

People in my family have had years of experience with insurance and I don't recall any rationing or problems what-so-ever.

The most dodgy experiences I have had was when my medical care was in the hands of the government..... but even then it was acceptable.

Glad to hear that it all went well, but this isn't necessarily exemplary of everyone's experience.

i remember having to wait 4-6 weeks just to see a specialist regarding an issue. Then waiting 2-3 hours in a waiting room to talk for 30-seconds for an expert doctor, who wanted to wait some more to see what happened with my condition.

Here, people's healthcare choices are rationed more & more... My mother who has "good" insurance had to wait several months & see several different docs to get an MRI on her knee because the insurance company wouldn't approve the procedure when her GP recommended it months ago... Months!

[Rhiannercakes 14]

Well, here's an example of my wait (from Ontario, Canada).

Mind you, this is my doctor, others may be different.

I live in a city of about 50 000 people.

I called about 3 weeks ago to see if I could get into see my doctor about these hives that popped out of no where.

Interestingly, I called the day after they got back from vacation. They had 200 phone calls that day already.

Did not book an appointment, would have had to wait 3 MONTHS. PAP smear appointments are about a 4 month wait right now, since our woman's clinic shut down.

The wait time in her waiting room is about 30 to 45 min AFTER your appointment time. She takes forever with paperwork.

Ended up going to the clinic for my doctor and other doctors' patients and got referred to an allergy specialist.

That was 2 weeks ago. Last Wednesday I got a call from the allergy doctor's office.

My appointment is October 7th. It's currently August 29th. He's only in town on Wednesdays.

I wish I could switch doctors, but no one in the area's taking patients. My dad has had better luck with things though. He needed a knee surgery and got it in about a month after knowing he needed it.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Rhiann

[Danno 1,228]

Spin it anyway you want, the truth is our Healthcare system works great for nearly everyone... it's just to expensive.

I called my Doctors office at 3:45 last week because I have been having a minor pain in my side for a month or so.

I had an appointment the next morning at 9;30

I waiting in the waiting room no more than 5 minutes.

After he couldn't find anything, he sent me to the Hospital for a scan. Appointment at 1:30 so quick I barely made the *No eating 4 hours prior* rule. (I had cereal for Breakfast).

Everyone will be glad to know all was fine

NHS in AUS.

I would call my doctor at 5:00pm and had an appointment at 10:00am the next day.

Waited 10 minutes

Had to have a chest x-ray. Went to the private Catholic hospital (Cabrini) and waited 10 minutes - Covered by my supplemental insurance.

Might have waited 30 minutes at a public facility. - but at no cost

Now wait a minute are you telling me you elected to "pay" for the x-ray rather than wait 20 minutes?

These AU claims are getting harder to believe by the day.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Danno

[rebeccajo 14]

Spin it anyway you want, the truth is our Healthcare system works great for nearly everyone... it's just to expensive.

I called my Doctors office at 3:45 last week because I have been having a minor pain in my side for a month or so.

I had an appointment the next morning at 9;30

I waiting in the waiting room no more than 5 minutes.

After he couldn't find anything, he sent me to the Hospital for a scan. Appointment at 1:30 so quick I barely made the *No eating 4 hours prior* rule. (I had cereal for Breakfast).

Everyone will be glad to know all was fine

I have waited more at Dentist offices than Doctors offices.

People in my family have had years of experience with insurance and I don't recall any rationing or problems what-so-ever.

The most dodgy experiences I have had was when my medical care was in the hands of the government..... but even then it was acceptable.

Obama has not shown me how he is going to do magic and change the COST, in fact Stephen:

When a Government program can not even do enough smoke and mirrors to demonstrate fiscal logic in the beginning..... there is no limit to what it will end up costing.

We need to go back to the drawing board.

Meanwhile, my husband (who is uninsured) rang up the doctor two weeks ago about a lump in the groin area. He was in to see her in two days. She examined him and elected NOT to run expensive testing because there was no insurance involved. She charged us half-price for the visit ($50) which I am sure was more than your co-pay. She prescribed a course of antibiotics which seem to have done the trick.

So which is it Danno? Your doctor running you over to the labs for expensive, unnecessary testing (just because you are covered and he could) or our doctor taking a guess and us hoping all will be well?

There's a middle ground here, and our system works great for NO ONE except for-profit hospitals and insurance companies.

[Heracles 417]

Spin it anyway you want, the truth is our Healthcare system works great for nearly everyone... it's just to expensive.

I called my Doctors office at 3:45 last week because I have been having a minor pain in my side for a month or so.

I had an appointment the next morning at 9;30

I waiting in the waiting room no more than 5 minutes.

After he couldn't find anything, he sent me to the Hospital for a scan. Appointment at 1:30 so quick I barely made the *No eating 4 hours prior* rule. (I had cereal for Breakfast).

Everyone will be glad to know all was fine

NHS in AUS.

I would call my doctor at 5:00pm and had an appointment at 10:00am the next day.

Waited 10 minutes

Had to have a chest x-ray. Went to the private Catholic hospital (Cabrini) and waited 10 minutes - Covered by my supplemental insurance.

Might have waited 30 minutes at a public facility. - but at no cost

Now wait a minute are you telling me you elected to "pay" for the x-ray rather than wait 20 minutes?

These AU claims are getting harder to believe by the day.

No, I had supplemental private health insurance there. So I get to use private hospitals and jump the line.

What kills me about you guys is that you say the US system is the best in the world right. So why has nobody ever tried to copy it? Only third world countries have a private only option. Whereas the rest of the developed world either has a UHS, NHS, or a public/private sys like Aus and co. Common sense really; when someone does something better, others will naturally copy or adapt the system. Yet, some of you 'want' us to believe that this system is so awesome, that nobody can copy it. riiiiight.. I wasn't born yesterday.