John Stossel and 20/20 nail Obama-care to the wall

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My wifes MOM DIED in a HALLWAY in a HOSPITAL in Brazil!

Are you serious? That sucks.

That is not a reflection of the health care system type. Brazil is quite a poor country.

Yeah? Well I live 6 miles from Canada and our hospitals, and especially our outpatient clinics are FULL of cars from Quebec! There are FOUR places to get an MRI in Burlington, VT (population 50,000) and TWO in Quebec (500,000 square miles and 7 million people!) Anyone with the ability to pay from Quebec comes here. This benefits other Candians as we catch the "overflow" and provide the safety valve. 90% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border and all along our good border OUR hospitals are FULL or Canadians getting "healthcare". The big surprise will be that when our government gets involved, Candians will be cut off and then their system will actually have to provide care for ALL Canadians and THEN what will they do? Quebec is already going bankrupt and isn't even treating ALL the Quebecois! The response from the government is ALWAYS to cut back on payment for services, whch cuts back on services, which causes by necessity a "rationing" of services. Very few doctors in Montreal operate 5 days per week. Most also have an office in Ottowa where they can limit out on Ontario's healthcare payments also (the province limits the amount a doctor can gross each year, so they just open an office in two provinces and split their time) They buy a big house on the west Island or St Lazare and commute 45 minutes each way. Why not? Double their income and cut services by half in each province...GREAT system. No worries. If the patients have to wait too long, they can dive one hour to Burlington or Plattsburgh and get what they need, IF they can pay. And as we consider government health care, the Candians are trying to find a way to have a "two tier" system of governemnt and private healthcare.

My MIL was in the hospital in Ukraine last year...9 DAYS for a gall bladder removal! They gutted her like a fish, no tiny one stitch surgery there. The hospitals look like they did in WW1. After two days her incision dressing had not been changed. Why? NO DRESSINGS!!!!!!!!! My wife went a bought some, changed it herself and left the additional material there in the "room" (actually a ward with perhaps 30 beds in one big room) Next day...no dressings. Why? The NURSES had SOLD them to other patients and pocketed the CASH. Alla had to go back two times each day to change the dressings and take everything home with her. Poor country I know. Land of the former Soviet Utopian society. Land of Rakmanonov, cradle of the caucasion race, thousands of years of culture and nearly a hundred years to get the medical care "right". We PAY CASH $250 per year toa local doctor JUST to answer her call if she has a problem, then pay MORE CASH to the doctor to treat her if something is wrong. The doctors spend so much time caring for their CASH customers they spend almost no time at the government FREE service clinics. Government health care SUCKS. Our healthcare in the USA is the best in the world, our method of payment and costs are outrageous! We do not need government healthcare, we need to get the government OUT of healthcare and get the consumer of healthcare more involved and government and attorneys LESS involved.

[SMOKE 1,426]

A customer would have some sort of restitution, even if they were scammed $10 by walmart. Whereas, a car dealer can rip someone off, in the thousands, and get away with it.

he can take his azz over to target or do without if he doesn't want to pay walmarts price. that works in every area of the retail industry. if you don't want to pay X dollars for Y product you don't have to.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

In terms of life span: Australia is ranked (5) and Canada is ranked (6).

US? (35) - yeah what a great system private is. Noooot!

Remember, you know nothing about me.

Dude you're probably that genius who called the cop racist for arresting him.

Problems in yout theory and propoganda. The US includes accidental deaths, re: car accidents, etc. in their lifespan calculations. Canada and Autralia and most other countries do not.

A person diagnosed with cancer in the USA has a 186% greater chance of living for 5 years than a Canadian, and that's an average. For some cancers it is as much as 700% better chance in the USA. Comparing raw "life span numbers" and associating it to "healthcare" means nothing. Comparing lifespans of people in need of healthcare has some relationship the quality of healthcare. I mean, in an ideal world, we would all live forever and need NO healhcare.

Ukraine has the same healthcare for all, yet the men have an average lifespan of 58 years and the women 77 years. This is the largest discrepancy in the civilized, industralized world. Associating it to healthcare would be preposterous. It is because alcoholism is a raging problem amoung Ukrainian men, smoking is almost universal amoung men, plus they are so stubbornly "macho" that many men refuse to look before crossing the street! No kidding! They have a huge rate of men getting squashed by cars.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Dream land! The government has proved so many times they cant run anything! My god man whats it take for some ppl to realize this well known fact?

Cash for clunkers went well.

I see how well Enron ran things. Maybe you could go to all of those Marc equivalents who lost their entire retirement in that company and tell them how well private companies run things.

If you pay poorly and hire clowns, public or private, anything will be run into the ground. Especially if the people working there are corrupt.

Cash for clunkers did not go well. When one looks at the statistics for the economy for July you will see a decrease in ALL aspects except auto sales. Lured by $4,500 (big surprise) people took their disposable income and spent it on cars...or just financed one using the phantom $4500 as a down payment, to the chagrin of furniture manufacturers, appliance sales and every other tracked "big ticket" items not to mention declines in every reporting department store chain. So the government BUYS two auto manufacturers (using money confiscated from us) then sponsors a program (using money confiscated from us) to bolster that business they just bought. This is the EVIL of government owning and operating an industry! They will no wdo what they need to to protect their interest in their property and they CAN do it. They can make laws which thwart the free market and unfairly coerce or force you to buy their products, which means you will eventually drive what THEY want you to drive...not what YOU want to drive.

Don't even speak about Enron. NO COMPARISON. Enron had no power to take money from your paycheck before you get it, Enron had no power to manipulate tax codes to get you to do as it pleased. Enron swindled it's paying customers who chose to do business with them. I had, until earlier this year. chocen NOT to own a piece of Genral Motors or Chrysler, now I have no choice. The government confiscated my earnings, took it away from my family, and bought failing auto manufacturers and now takes MORE money from my family to boost the failing businesses they bought! And tells you it is a success...well for the government it IS a success. Wish I could do that with my business, great gig if you can get it.

And to top it off, the cash for clunkers program only managed to clear off a bunch of overstocked inventory, it didn't put any union people back to work (though it may get the factories started again sooner, that is yet to be seen, but the $3 billion went to pay off corporate debt, probably held by a govenment owned bank not to feed another family) but it DID, by government manipulation, re-distriibute money into the areas government wanted it to go. Now they are putting together a plan for a similar program for refrigerators and freezers, to appease the appliance manufacturers who are screaming bloody murder and agree with me that "cash for clunkers" was a BUST!. It is a ridiculous use of our money. Why take it from me at all??? TAKE it from me, then give it to someone else to give it to a car dealer? Why not let me KEEP the $4500? I promise you my wife will stimulate the ####### out of the economy with it! She may buy a dress or shoes (definitely shoes) or whatever, but why not let ME decide where to spend MY money?

This program's ONLY success was a very clear demonstration of what will happen when the government gets it's hands on an industry. Imagine when they run healthcare!

[zqt3344 21]

How would you know, you ever been to Brazil? When did you become a fcuking expert on healthcare in the USA or Brazil?

My wifes MOM DIED in a HALLWAY in a HOSPITAL in Brazil!

Are you serious? That sucks.

That is not a reflection of the health care system type. Brazil is quite a poor country.

Edited August 29, 2009 by zqt3344

[zqt3344 21]

Hey I am a car dealer! Screw you HAZA!

We agree again! I knew we could find some common ground. Cash for clunkers was good for the consumer and the auto industry. Granted, they have to wait for their money, but they'll get it. GM and Chrysler have nothing to complain about, the others are being inconvenienced, but they've been screwing the public for decades.

Car dealers have been screwing people for years. Car dealers should not even exist. I should be able to buy the car directly from the manufacturer and pick it up at a store or even have it delivered to my house. Why should I line the pockets of the owner of XYZ dealership?

When they rip people of it's just business. Yet they are going broke or are asked to close down, they cry murder. There are hundreds of sites dedicated to the scams they pull. yet they want their money. As if they designed, tested and built the car or something.

[natty bumppo 297]

How would you know, you ever been to Brazil? When did you become a fcuking expert on healthcare in the USA or Brazil?

My wifes MOM DIED in a HALLWAY in a HOSPITAL in Brazil!

Are you serious? That sucks.

That is not a reflection of the health care system type. Brazil is quite a poor country.

haza knows all ... can't you see his wizard hat?

[zqt3344 21]

I see a Grand Wizard of disinformation alright!

How would you know, you ever been to Brazil? When did you become a fcuking expert on healthcare in the USA or Brazil?

My wifes MOM DIED in a HALLWAY in a HOSPITAL in Brazil!

Are you serious? That sucks.

That is not a reflection of the health care system type. Brazil is quite a poor country.

haza knows all ... can't you see his wizard hat?

[Heracles 417]

A customer would have some sort of restitution, even if they were scammed $10 by walmart. Whereas, a car dealer can rip someone off, in the thousands, and get away with it.

he can take his azz over to target or do without if he doesn't want to pay walmarts price. that works in every area of the retail industry. if you don't want to pay X dollars for Y product you don't have to.

Walmart has a set price. No one goes in and negotiates. Whereas, when it comes to buying cars, if someone doesn't know how the system works, they can and will be screwed over for thousands; At any one of those three stages I mentioned earlier.

The dealers also have a huge problem with run of the mill style places selling cars. They want to be able to peel some plastic off and and claim that costs thousand of dollars in delivery costs / detailing. Why should a dealers force me to by from them rather than the manufacturer? I should be able to call them up and buy directly, cutting out the middle man. Otherwise I want to buy my car from a Target style joint where I don't have to waste time negotiating bullshit costs. O playing tricks at anyone of the three stages.

Australian dealers pull the same sort of stuff, however, the law comes down hard any on dodgy deals, like spot delivery. If the dealer tries to pulls that off, they themselves end up financing the car. Or face a huge fine. It's amazing what fines do for business in terms of behaving ethically.

[Heracles 417]

Hey I am a car dealer! Screw you HAZA!

So you're a crook too hey.

[Heracles 417]

This program's ONLY success was a very clear demonstration of what will happen when the government gets it's hands on an industry. Imagine when they run healthcare!

Yes a success. Something now being replicated in various other countries,.

The program set out to move cars and was a smash hit.

[zqt3344 21]

You have no clue what you are talking about, you can go to Wal Mart and negotiate, do it all the time!

And if you want to buy direct from a dealer, then you arrange for all the transportation of the auto yourself and we shall see how much it costs you in time and money. I guess you would like to pay the shipping costs on a auto several hundred or thousand of miles from where you live. Do you realize how much it costs to have something that size transported safely??? You are not financially tuned in here.

By all means HaZa go call up any auto manufacturer the next time you buy a car and demand that they sell you a car and ship it to your address. And please report back to all of us how that conversation went.

A customer would have some sort of restitution, even if they were scammed $10 by walmart. Whereas, a car dealer can rip someone off, in the thousands, and get away with it.

he can take his azz over to target or do without if he doesn't want to pay walmarts price. that works in every area of the retail industry. if you don't want to pay X dollars for Y product you don't have to.

Walmart has a set price. No one goes in and negotiates. Whereas, when it comes to buying cars, if someone doesn't know how the system works, they can and will be screwed over for thousands; At any one of those three stages I mentioned earlier.

The dealers also have a huge problem with run of the mill style places selling cars. They want to be able to peel some plastic off and and claim that costs thousand of dollars in delivery costs / detailing. Why should a dealers force me to by from them rather than the manufacturer? I should be able to call them up and buy directly, cutting out the middle man. Otherwise I want to buy my car from a Target style joint where I don't have to waste time negotiating bullshit costs. O playing tricks at anyone of the three stages.

Australian dealers pull the same sort of stuff, however, the law comes down hard any on dodgy deals, like spot delivery. If the dealer tries to pulls that off, they themselves end up financing the car. Or face a huge fine. It's amazing what fines do for business in terms of behaving ethically.

Just like you are a rube from down under that is a crook I suppose!

Hey I am a car dealer! Screw you HAZA!

So you're a crook too hey.

[Danno 1,228]

A customer would have some sort of restitution, even if they were scammed $10 by walmart. Whereas, a car dealer can rip someone off, in the thousands, and get away with it.

he can take his azz over to target or do without if he doesn't want to pay walmarts price. that works in every area of the retail industry. if you don't want to pay X dollars for Y product you don't have to.

Walmart has a set price. No one goes in and negotiates. Whereas, when it comes to buying cars, if someone doesn't know how the system works, they can and will be screwed over for thousands; At any one of those three stages I mentioned earlier.

The dealers also have a huge problem with run of the mill style places selling cars. They want to be able to peel some plastic off and and claim that costs thousand of dollars in delivery costs / detailing. Why should a dealers force me to by from them rather than the manufacturer? I should be able to call them up and buy directly, cutting out the middle man. Otherwise I want to buy my car from a Target style joint where I don't have to waste time negotiating bullshit costs. O playing tricks at anyone of the three stages.

Australian dealers pull the same sort of stuff, however, the law comes down hard any on dodgy deals, like spot delivery. If the dealer tries to pulls that off, they themselves end up financing the car. Or face a huge fine. It's amazing what fines do for business in terms of behaving ethically.

There are very few products you don't get through a middle -man.

It seems like some new car company was offering some type of internet purchase ability.

I also have heard something about new car dealers selling through eBay.

[Heracles 417]

Problems in yout theory and propoganda. The US includes accidental deaths, re: car accidents, etc. in their lifespan calculations. Canada and Autralia and most other countries do not.

A person diagnosed with cancer in the USA has a 186% greater chance of living for 5 years than a Canadian, and that's an average. For some cancers it is as much as 700% better chance in the USA. Comparing raw "life span numbers" and associating it to "healthcare" means nothing. Comparing lifespans of people in need of healthcare has some relationship the quality of healthcare. I mean, in an ideal world, we would all live forever and need NO healhcare.

Ukraine has the same healthcare for all, yet the men have an average lifespan of 58 years and the women 77 years. This is the largest discrepancy in the civilized, industralized world. Associating it to healthcare would be preposterous. It is because alcoholism is a raging problem amoung Ukrainian men, smoking is almost universal amoung men, plus they are so stubbornly "macho" that many men refuse to look before crossing the street! No kidding! They have a huge rate of men getting squashed by cars.

Ukraine is another bad example. Why not mention Nigeria and Sudan while you're at it.

The US includes accidental deaths, re: car accidents, etc. in their lifespan calculations. Canada and Autralia and most other countries do not.

So the same government that is apparently incompetent now has better reporting standards. At least make up your mind, they are either incompetent or they're not.

The US has good cancer specialist. That has nothing to do with the health care system but the fact that they are highly skilled doctors. But anyway; without sources, numbers are irrelevant. AKA made up.

[zqt3344 21]

Not a clue you have about the USA.

Problems in yout theory and propoganda. The US includes accidental deaths, re: car accidents, etc. in their lifespan calculations. Canada and Autralia and most other countries do not.

A person diagnosed with cancer in the USA has a 186% greater chance of living for 5 years than a Canadian, and that's an average. For some cancers it is as much as 700% better chance in the USA. Comparing raw "life span numbers" and associating it to "healthcare" means nothing. Comparing lifespans of people in need of healthcare has some relationship the quality of healthcare. I mean, in an ideal world, we would all live forever and need NO healhcare.

Ukraine has the same healthcare for all, yet the men have an average lifespan of 58 years and the women 77 years. This is the largest discrepancy in the civilized, industralized world. Associating it to healthcare would be preposterous. It is because alcoholism is a raging problem amoung Ukrainian men, smoking is almost universal amoung men, plus they are so stubbornly "macho" that many men refuse to look before crossing the street! No kidding! They have a huge rate of men getting squashed by cars.

Ukraine is another bad example. Why not mention Nigeria and Sudan while you're at it.

The US includes accidental deaths, re: car accidents, etc. in their lifespan calculations. Canada and Autralia and most other countries do not.

So the same government that is apparently incompetent now has better reporting standards. At least make up your mind, they are either incompetent or they're not.

The US has good cancer specialist. That has nothing to do with the health care system but the fact that they are highly skilled doctors. But anyway; without sources, numbers are irrelevant. AKA made up.