John Stossel and 20/20 nail Obama-care to the wall

[Heracles 417]

I'm not a foreigner, I'm on a forum for people who immigrate to America. You are an America basher. You don't want to be here, so go home. Problem solved. Your views don't bother me at all. You think it's hot in the kitchen? Get out. We don't need people like you here, that's all.

Who is the we Mr Anonymous?

[MrsCat 6]

I'm not a foreigner, I'm on a forum for people who immigrate to America. You are an America basher. You don't want to be here, so go home. Problem solved. Your views don't bother me at all. You think it's hot in the kitchen? Get out. We don't need people like you here, that's all.

Who is the we Mr Anonymous?

The boggy monster presumably.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I'm not a foreigner, I'm on a forum for people who immigrate to America. You are an America basher. You don't want to be here, so go home. Problem solved. Your views don't bother me at all. You think it's hot in the kitchen? Get out. We don't need people like you here, that's all.

Who is the we Mr Anonymous?

The we are Americans. Go back home and listen to some foreigner tell you how much Australia sucks and how much better his homeland is while he's sponging off of your system. Then get back to me.

[trailmix 77]

I like Stossel, but this is sensationalistic. For instance, the woman who had the quadruplets - yes she had to fly to Montana because there were not enough neonatal beds available - what they don't mention is that she paid nothing for it. They also don't mention that there is a new hospital being built in that same city and an extension on another.

It's a horrible thing for her, no question - but it made headlines because it's not the norm - not because it is.

Canadian healthcare is not perfect, but I don't see why American media keeps referring to it, you are not Canada, you will not have the same system.

As for the innovation based on profit, I don't see how that would change and why it is in a piece about Canadian healthcare, it clouds the issue. I don't know about all provinces but in Alberta there is no coverage by Alberta health care for drugs - so innovation is not hindered drug-wise (there is also no coverage for dental or vision - except for seniors). Since, in the U.S. system, they will be caring for more people, one would think that there would still be a profit to be made on other types of innovations as well.

There are wait times here for specialists and tests - some are not acceptable - but I think the reason there probably isn't in the U.S. is because so many people are excluded - that doesn't make it right.

In New Zealand they have public health care but they have a two tier system, where you can buy additional insurance (or just pay) to go to a private hospital, why do they never mention that type of system in these pieces?

You only see what you want,Right?

Well unless there was something else in that piece that I missed, I think I pretty much covered it - I want to see a great health care system for the United States, i'm not saying that Health care specifically in Canada is better (although it is better in that everyone has coverage). I don't think what I said is particularily one sided - however that piece from 20/20 certainly is.

Edited August 28, 2009 by trailmix

[Heracles 417]

The we are Americans. Go back home and listen to some foreigner tell you how much Australia sucks and how much better his homeland is while he's sponging off of your system. Then get back to me.

That logic is idiotic. People are doing things better than you and this is not based on some sort of NYCish style personal opinion; it's fact; it's reality. Therefore, you either learn from it or pull a spooky or scandal and pretend they're not. Also known as denial.

Edited August 28, 2009 by haza

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The we are Americans. Go back home and listen to some foreigner tell you how much Australia sucks and how much better his homeland is while he's sponging off of your system. Then get back to me.

That logic is idiotic. People are doing things better than you and this is not based on some sort of NYCish style personal opinion; it's fact; it's reality. Therefore, you either learn from it or pull a spooky or scandal and pretend they're not. Also known as denial.

Not idiotic at all. You insult me and my country. If I did the same to you, you'd be crying foul all the way to the Outback. You can dish it out, but you can't take it. Talk like that in public and see what happens. You're a big tough guy threatening people in a forum. Try it somewhere in reality and see what happens. Tough guy. You rave about your intelligence and education, yet you live in country you hate. You sure sound like a real winner to me. Don't let the door hit you in the brains on the way out.

[Heracles 417]

Not idiotic at all. You insult me and my country. If I did the same to you, you'd be crying foul all the way to the Outback. You can dish it out, but you can't take it. Talk like that in public and see what happens. You're a big tough guy threatening people in a forum. Try it somewhere in reality and see what happens. Tough guy. You rave about your intelligence and education, yet you live in country you hate. You sure sound like a real winner to me. Don't let the door hit you in the brains on the way out.

Wha wha wha. Do you need a tissue or something? Every person I know, one way or another, knows my opinion / stance on numerous issues. So spare me the, ‘I would not dare say it in person’ rubbish. What do you want me to do? Walk up to people on the street and give them my opinion. This, after all, is the underlying concept of a forum.

I never threatened anyone. To the contrary, what I did do is ask you, the person with the 1,001 personal insults yet zero logical posts, to say the same direct personal insult to my face rather than anonymously on a forum. In terms of "raving", I'd rather talk about my experience, where I am coming from, than blab on about how dumb and stupid everyone else is, when compared to you; simply because you say they are of course. After I found out your not Eric, I realized all of your stupid comments were serious rather than Eric style jokes. As I said earlier, not worth the 0.2 cents worth of electricity needed to respond.

When I moved here, I moved my life here; something that took years of planning. So I cannot just pickup and leave again or at the drop of the hat. Nor will I do it because some living in the shadow paranoid clown says so. However, now that my removal of conditions is done with, I have started the process to move back home, with my wife of course. Like anything, it takes time to plan.

PS By the way, what / which part do I hate exactly? Yes, I do not agree with how certain systems work. Which strangely enough, many here from abroad, have their own similar dislikes.

Edited August 28, 2009 by haza

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Not idiotic at all. You insult me and my country. If I did the same to you, you'd be crying foul all the way to the Outback. You can dish it out, but you can't take it. Talk like that in public and see what happens. You're a big tough guy threatening people in a forum. Try it somewhere in reality and see what happens. Tough guy. You rave about your intelligence and education, yet you live in country you hate. You sure sound like a real winner to me. Don't let the door hit you in the brains on the way out.

Wha wha wha. Do you need a tissue or something? Every person I know, one way or another, knows my opinion / stance on numerous issues. So spare me the, ‘I would not dare say it in person’ rubbish. What do you want me to do? Walk up to people on the street and give them my opinion. This, after all, is the underlying concept of a forum.

I never threatened anyone. To the contrary, what I did do is ask you, the person with the 1,001 personal insults yet zero logical posts, to say the same direct personal insult to my face rather than anonymously on a forum. In terms of "raving", I'd rather talk about my experience, where I am coming from, than blab on about how dumb and stupid everyone else is, when compared to you; simply because you say they are of course. After I found out your not Eric, I realized all of your stupid comments were serious rather than Eric style jokes. As I said earlier, not worth the 0.2 cents worth of electricity needed to respond.

When I moved here, I moved my life here; something that took years of planning. So I cannot just pickup and leave again or at the drop of the hat. Nor will I do it because some living in the shadow paranoid clown says so. However, now that my removal of conditions is done with, I have started the process to move back home, with my wife of course. Like anything, it takes time to plan.

PS By the way, what / which part do I hate exactly? Yes, I do not agree with how certain systems work. Which strangely enough, many here from abroad, have their own similar dislikes.

You have threatened me several times as you have threatened others. Internet balls. I'm scared. And only you have made claims of education and intelligence. I have not as I have nothing to prove to anyone, nor do I come here to feel better about myself. And how many times have I said that this is entertainment for me, but it is serious to you. I'm just a troll, remember?

Many who live here have their dislikes and gripes, but they don't spew the drivel at every opporutnity like you do. Like I said, I'll go to Australia and tell everyone how much the country sucks and how the US wipes its a$$ with Aussies and tell them all I'll kick their asses and use their heads for punching bags and see how it comes across to you. Of course your pea brain couldn't understand the analogy, now could it? You talk the talk, but you don't have anything between your legs to walk the talk. You're a disgrace to your own country never mind mine.

[Heracles 417]

You have threatened me several times as you have threatened others. Internet balls. I'm scared. And only you have made claims of education and intelligence. I have not as I have nothing to prove to anyone, nor do I come here to feel better about myself. And how many times have I said that this is entertainment for me, but it is serious to you. I'm just a troll, remember?

Many who live here have their dislikes and gripes, but they don't spew the drivel at every opporutnity like you do. Like I said, I'll go to Australia and tell everyone how much the country sucks and how the US wipes its a$$ with Aussies and tell them all I'll kick their asses and use their heads for punching bags and see how it comes across to you. Of course your pea brain couldn't understand the analogy, now could it? You talk the talk, but you don't have anything between your legs to walk the talk. You're a disgrace to your own country never mind mine.

Well that is what the first amendment is all about. If you don't like it, tough ######. Anyways, as you said, this is all entertainment to you. No need to ever bother discussing anything serious. Same goes with anything you post really. Who knows why you even bother coming here when you have little to no intention of actually contributing to a thread. Furthermore, you post in secrecy for whatever warped and paranoid reason. So don't sit here and talk down to me for actually talking about myself, about my experience, and using it to explain my line of reasoning.

If you don't agree with mine opinion or that of anyone else, get a life and move on; Rather than dwell on their views. If you ever go to Australia and feel the US does xyz better and have something more than an opinion to back it up, by all means mention it. Heck, knowing Aussies, they will be keen to hear the constructive criticism. That open attitude is why Australia is ranked numero uno, or close to it, in so many international reports.

Edited August 28, 2009 by haza

[Niels Bohr 72]

Here's a problem with this media. It doesn't mention that everybody will not opt in for government health care subscription.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Do you guys think that the life expectancy could be directly related to the population as well?

I mean you mention 2 sparcely populated countries, and compare them to the US - in my own mind I would expect the life expectancy to be a bit lower in the higher populated areas.

Whats the life expectancy in China, India?

Also, does life expectancy reflect on the actual healthcare or the lifestyles? This is another factor.

[HAL 9000 96]

I like Stossel, but this is sensationalistic. For instance, the woman who had the quadruplets - yes she had to fly to Montana because there were not enough neonatal beds available - what they don't mention is that she paid nothing for it. They also don't mention that there is a new hospital being built in that same city and an extension on another.

It's a horrible thing for her, no question - but it made headlines because it's not the norm - not because it is.

Canadian healthcare is not perfect, but I don't see why American media keeps referring to it, you are not Canada, you will not have the same system.

As for the innovation based on profit, I don't see how that would change and why it is in a piece about Canadian healthcare, it clouds the issue. I don't know about all provinces but in Alberta there is no coverage by Alberta health care for drugs - so innovation is not hindered drug-wise (there is also no coverage for dental or vision - except for seniors). Since, in the U.S. system, they will be caring for more people, one would think that there would still be a profit to be made on other types of innovations as well.

There are wait times here for specialists and tests - some are not acceptable - but I think the reason there probably isn't in the U.S. is because so many people are excluded - that doesn't make it right.

In New Zealand they have public health care but they have a two tier system, where you can buy additional insurance (or just pay) to go to a private hospital, why do they never mention that type of system in these pieces?

You only see what you want,Right?

Well unless there was something else in that piece that I missed, I think I pretty much covered it - I want to see a great health care system for the United States, i'm not saying that Health care specifically in Canada is better (although it is better in that everyone has coverage). I don't think what I said is particularily one sided - however that piece from 20/20 certainly is.

Well put.

[jcg303 1]

has anyone considered how the government will pay for this? the just UNDERestimated the budget deficit by $2 trillion. that's $2,000,000,000,000,000!!!! and that's BEFORE this health care bill.

and no one can produce even ONE example of a government program that saves money and comes in under budget. the US has deep pockets, but this kind of spending year in and year out (it's been this way for a while now - both sides are guilty) is going to delay economic growth, cause inflation and/or high interest rates, and ultimately result in bankruptcy. and that's not good for ANYONE.

no one denys that health care costs are escalating, but there are many things that can be done to curb that. AND, seeing that you're reading this thread on visajourney, you've surely experienced or seen the haphazard nature and inefficiencies of the USCIS and the DHS. 6 months to process a 10 page application??? how are they going to handle paper work for 300 million people? do you expect health care to be run any differently? why so much faith that the government will get it right THIS time???

people respond better when they're pulled in by incentives, not pushed in by legislation.

just my 2 cents......

[spookyturtle 9,466]

You have threatened me several times as you have threatened others. Internet balls. I'm scared. And only you have made claims of education and intelligence. I have not as I have nothing to prove to anyone, nor do I come here to feel better about myself. And how many times have I said that this is entertainment for me, but it is serious to you. I'm just a troll, remember?

Many who live here have their dislikes and gripes, but they don't spew the drivel at every opporutnity like you do. Like I said, I'll go to Australia and tell everyone how much the country sucks and how the US wipes its a$$ with Aussies and tell them all I'll kick their asses and use their heads for punching bags and see how it comes across to you. Of course your pea brain couldn't understand the analogy, now could it? You talk the talk, but you don't have anything between your legs to walk the talk. You're a disgrace to your own country never mind mine.

Well that is what the first amendment is all about. If you don't like it, tough ######. Anyways, as you said, this is all entertainment to you. No need to ever bother discussing anything serious. Same goes with anything you post really. Who knows why you even bother coming here when you have little to no intention of actually contributing to a thread. Furthermore, you post in secrecy for whatever warped and paranoid reason. So don't sit here and talk down to me for actually talking about myself, about my experience, and using it to explain my line of reasoning.

If you don't agree with mine opinion or that of anyone else, get a life and move on; Rather than dwell on their views. If you ever go to Australia and feel the US does xyz better and have something more than an opinion to back it up, by all means mention it. Heck, knowing Aussies, they will be keen to hear the constructive criticism. That open attitude is why Australia is ranked numero uno, or close to it, in so many international reports.

It's good to see that you're so open minded. I post what I want. If you don't like it, go home, numero uno. Why are you here in this 3rd world county when paraside is merely a flight away?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I like Stossel, but this is sensationalistic. For instance, the woman who had the quadruplets - yes she had to fly to Montana because there were not enough neonatal beds available - what they don't mention is that she paid nothing for it. They also don't mention that there is a new hospital being built in that same city and an extension on another.

It's a horrible thing for her, no question - but it made headlines because it's not the norm - not because it is.

Canadian healthcare is not perfect, but I don't see why American media keeps referring to it, you are not Canada, you will not have the same system.

As for the innovation based on profit, I don't see how that would change and why it is in a piece about Canadian healthcare, it clouds the issue. I don't know about all provinces but in Alberta there is no coverage by Alberta health care for drugs - so innovation is not hindered drug-wise (there is also no coverage for dental or vision - except for seniors). Since, in the U.S. system, they will be caring for more people, one would think that there would still be a profit to be made on other types of innovations as well.

There are wait times here for specialists and tests - some are not acceptable - but I think the reason there probably isn't in the U.S. is because so many people are excluded - that doesn't make it right.

In New Zealand they have public health care but they have a two tier system, where you can buy additional insurance (or just pay) to go to a private hospital, why do they never mention that type of system in these pieces?

You only see what you want,Right?

Well unless there was something else in that piece that I missed, I think I pretty much covered it - I want to see a great health care system for the United States, i'm not saying that Health care specifically in Canada is better (although it is better in that everyone has coverage). I don't think what I said is particularily one sided - however that piece from 20/20 certainly is.

Dream land! The government has proved so many times they cant run anything! My god man whats it take for some ppl to realize this well known fact?