Mixed Religions

[CnT4ever 1]

a better question might be: why are some members unable to share their stories and experiences without a heaping side of condescension for those whose experiences have just gotten underway? some people simply don't find that palatable, and choose to comment as such. it has nothing to do with the status or security of their relationship. just that they believe they just might actually know a little bit more about their husband than strangers do.

Like I said, why not take what you like and you can learn from? And leave the rest? Why attack someone that is sharing their 30 + years of experience? I am also new in my marriage, compared to most here. Her posts do not intimidate or upset me. On the contrary, I'm finding, day by day, that much of what she says is very true and happening around me. I don't take it personally or that she's talking about MY husband when she posts. She's talking about her life and her husband(s) past/present.

Matter of fact, she mentioned about how some men want to send their kids back home to raise. While we're not planning on having kids, we did have a talk about it recently. To my surprise, my husband suggested the same thing (should a miracle occur and I get pregnant). Something I would have never thought he would really suggest (as it never came up in the past - since children were not likely). So she was spot on with that one. Why shouldn't I beleive that some other stuff she's saying, may also be true?

If you really disagree, why not say, "I don't think that would ever happen with my husband...my husband and I have a different relationship...etc etc etc" Why attack her?

so the ones making broad, sweeping generalizations here, about men they don't personally know, about relationships they have no insight into whatsoever because they know nothing about either person in the relationship other than their place of birth-those are the ones that get a free pass, and everyone else should just swallow it down without a word of objection? how is this any different from the cretins in off topic yammering on about "arabs this" or "muslims that"? a friend of mine has been told in off topic before that because she's married to a jordanian, she could expect to be beaten on a regular basis. this guy had claimed to see that happen over and over when he was there-but what did his experience have to do with my friend and her husband? nothing. and she was right to point out how ridiculous this guy was. how is this any different? it's the same kind of slander of an entire group of people, of an entire set of relationships. the attacks came FIRST from HER end, not those who responded. astarte just provided a great post, full of insight and experience that was very informative. how come yr not asking "why can't kh's posts stick to her own personal insights and experiences like astarte was able to do without telling everyone that their husbands are going to start beating their kids, and if you don't believe it, well yr dumb a## is just in denial"?

I don't think she made a generalization. She talked about HER husbands and HER experiences. She even gave them names. What is your problem??? Why are you taking it personal? Generalization how? From saying what she sees in the community around her for the last 30 years? You on the other hand, offer nothing but attacks on her. Why not tell your own story then? If you feel hers is so "unlikely" to happen to other women??? Why not offer your own experiences to counter what hers have been? Giving people a glimpse into what else they might experience? Instead of just attacking someone?

[ya falaha! 0]

I really don't get why there's an argument. We're all married to different men, sah? We all have different experiences, sah? I think the issue is with ppl making broad and sweeping generalizations. I think we've all been guilty of that at one time or another. We have to look past generalizing terminology and read into personal experiences disguised as sweeping statements. KH's wording in some posts may look broad and sweeping but I don't believe she meant it. Anyways, there's no reason to argue. We've all have tough times with cultural or religious issues at one time in our relationship...I mean re: Americans marrying MENA ppl. I can tell you what I've experienced but you may never experience it and vice versa. That being said, Muslims/Arabs, in general, have certain common denominators in their religious/cultural attitudes. Some more extreme than others. So let's share our experiences and maybe it will be eye opening for some or maybe we can share a common bond if we can relate to each other. Kumbaya people, kumbaya.

[nurse1967 287]

a better question might be: why are some members unable to share their stories and experiences without a heaping side of condescension for those whose experiences have just gotten underway? some people simply don't find that palatable, and choose to comment as such. it has nothing to do with the status or security of their relationship. just that they believe they just might actually know a little bit more about their husband than strangers do.

Like I said, why not take what you like and you can learn from? And leave the rest? Why attack someone that is sharing their 30 + years of experience? I am also new in my marriage, compared to most here. Her posts do not intimidate or upset me. On the contrary, I'm finding, day by day, that much of what she says is very true and happening around me. I don't take it personally or that she's talking about MY husband when she posts. She's talking about her life and her husband(s) past/present.

Matter of fact, she mentioned about how some men want to send their kids back home to raise. While we're not planning on having kids, we did have a talk about it recently. To my surprise, my husband suggested the same thing (should a miracle occur and I get pregnant). Something I would have never thought he would really suggest (as it never came up in the past - since children were not likely). So she was spot on with that one. Why shouldn't I beleive that some other stuff she's saying, may also be true?

If you really disagree, why not say, "I don't think that would ever happen with my husband...my husband and I have a different relationship...etc etc etc" Why attack her?

so the ones making broad, sweeping generalizations here, about men they don't personally know, about relationships they have no insight into whatsoever because they know nothing about either person in the relationship other than their place of birth-those are the ones that get a free pass, and everyone else should just swallow it down without a word of objection? how is this any different from the cretins in off topic yammering on about "arabs this" or "muslims that"? a friend of mine has been told in off topic before that because she's married to a jordanian, she could expect to be beaten on a regular basis. this guy had claimed to see that happen over and over when he was there-but what did his experience have to do with my friend and her husband? nothing. and she was right to point out how ridiculous this guy was. how is this any different? it's the same kind of slander of an entire group of people, of an entire set of relationships. the attacks came FIRST from HER end, not those who responded. astarte just provided a great post, full of insight and experience that was very informative. how come yr not asking "why can't kh's posts stick to her own personal insights and experiences like astarte was able to do without telling everyone that their husbands are going to start beating their kids, and if you don't believe it, well yr dumb a## is just in denial"?

I don't think she made a generalization. She talked about HER husbands and HER experiences. She even gave them names. What is your problem??? Why are you taking it personal? Generalization how? From saying what she sees in the community around her for the last 30 years? You on the other hand, offer nothing but attacks on her. Why not tell your own story then? If you feel hers is so "unlikely" to happen to other women??? Why not offer your own experiences to counter what hers have been? Giving people a glimpse into what else they might experience? Instead of just attacking someone?

You are either blind OR delusional if you don't understand that there has been VERY BROAD generalizations made about a group of people here that KH has NEVER MET. If she wants to be specific and say "MY HUSBAND IS THIS" or "MY HUSBAND IS THAT" then fine. But that's not what she did. She put all MENA men into one category and it wasn't a very pretty one either. I personally do take offense to that because my husband is MENA and fits none of her prejudiced stereotypes. So there put that in your pipe and smoke it. As you are quick to point out we are all entitled to our point of view.

[CnT4ever 1]

You are either blind OR delusional if you don't understand that there has been VERY BROAD generalizations made about a group of people here that KH has NEVER MET. If she wants to be specific and say "MY HUSBAND IS THIS" or "MY HUSBAND IS THAT" then fine. But that's not what she did. She put all MENA men into one category and it wasn't a very pretty one either. I personally do take offense to that because my husband is MENA and fits none of her prejudiced stereotypes. So there put that in your pipe and smoke it. As you are quick to point out we are all entitled to our point of view.

I won't waste my time answering to someone whose maturity level is like this (see the red sentence).

When someone talks about their own husband, I assume they are talking about their own husband. Not mine.

Astarte, your post was exactly what I was trying to say. Perhaps your post could say it better. Thanks

[Jenn! 918]

That ice cream really helped me get over my earlier frustrations with this thread. I suggest we all have a bowl.

[~Jackie~ 30]

...I will take a bowl and join moody in her much-missed kumbaya

[allousa 1]

<handing out extra spoons>

Good idea Jen!

[ya falaha! 0]

Ice cream sounds good so I'll take pistachio. However, I'm gonna need a kettle cooked chips chaser with that.

[venusfire503 54]

- I have to wait until sundown for my ice cream.....

Anyway, it's been interesting reading what everyone has to say. What I try to do (and am not always completely successful - I'm far from perfect ) is read what everyone has to say, realize that we all have our own experiences and points of view, and not get upset (that's the hard part) about anything. It's difficult sometimes, though, because I DO feel defensive at times - like when I went to a family event recently and was more or less shunned by a few relatives I used to be close to (in my pre-"married to an Arab" days). Face it, NO relationship is perfect, but when we have the inevitable problems, we feel like 'everyone' is going to say it's because of the mixed marriage. I love my husband, and I think he's really wonderful. Neither of us is perfect, though, and we have our times - one was Saturday night/early Sunday, actually. I was in tears, but felt I couldn't call anyone to talk, though, because if whoever I called even suggested it was because of who he was, that would really get my dander up! Definitely not what I needed.

Anyway, the reason I like to read posts from others though, is that as well as we've managed to cope, it can be SO helpful to get insight from others. Some of you might have read my posts in the past. One thing I wish I had known in the past was how to handle my husband's moods. We had a few really horrible fights last year until I figured out to leave him alone and give him his space. Yeah, I know that is probably true of all or most men (not just MENA), but I wasn't expecting the "I made a mistake marrying you, I should go back home and divorce you" type of statements. It was soooooooo wonderful when I read that many MENA men (no, not saying "all") go through that phase, but that it (at least usually) passes. It still really sucked at the time, but it ended after a few weeks. Somehow it helps to know that I'm not the only one who dealt with that. I also wish someone had warned me about the treatment we got at the POE when he first arrived.

The problem with all of this information is that it sometimes gets difficult to keep from getting paranoid and overly sensitive! I think that's why some of us get really angry and defensive when we hear anyone say anything bad about even one MENA man. It's hard enough to hear it from people we realize "don't know any better" (like my idiot relatives, or even well meaning but clueless friends), but when it comes from within the group (where we sometimes ONLY want to feel safe, supported, and encouraged), sometimes it's too hard to deal with. I try (again, not always successful) to keep in mind that some of us are hurting, some of us are being protective and not wanting others to get hurt, and some of us are (at least at that moment, and often due to outside-of-the-relationship reasons) very sensitive to any type of criticism and feel like we're being attacked. When we're feeling vulnerable for whatever reason (just had a fight, having trouble understanding the SO, recently got insulted by a rude or clueless person, whatever), it's very easy to mistake "please be careful" for "your relationship is automatically doomed because you married a MENA man". And also, everyone runs into finding out at least once in a while that what was in their minds wasn't exactly matched to how it was interpreted by others.

So, for what it's worth, I (with all the best intentions) suggest that we all listen to what everyone has to say, realize that some of what you hear could be something to look out for - but not expect all of the 'bad' stuff to happen to you. The trick is to figure out what to totally ignore and what to remember and use in a good way to avoid or at least solve problems. Add in the difficulties we all face: 1 - just being in a relationship; 2 - adjusting to a new and different person/culture; 3 - dealing with all the naysayers on the outside who give their unwanted and rude opinions - and there's going to be some hurt feelings. If I wasn't so human, I'd just not read posts when I feel a little emotionally vulnerable. Unfortunately, that's often when I turn to VJ for advice or just as my form of escape (since I don't really have other vices to resort to, like drinking or whatever - I'm a procrastinator/avoider).

We'll all have to forgive each other for any stepping on toes. I apologize if I did or will upset anyone - not my intent. I guess growing up in the family I did, and then dealing with a total jerk in a horrible 15 year marriage, has really developed my desire to smooth things over whenever possible.

I wish all of you peace, love, and happiness - and a smooth journey!

venusfire

[allousa 1]

Ice cream sounds good so I'll take pistachio. However, I'm gonna need a kettle cooked chips chaser with that.

Yeah...well...I'm DEFINITELY going to need at LEAST A 16oz coca-cola to wash it all down with....

............................BURP!

[tany1157 161]

I really don't get why there's an argument. We're all married to different men, sah? We all have different experiences, sah? I think the issue is with ppl making broad and sweeping generalizations. I think we've all been guilty of that at one time or another. We have to look past generalizing terminology and read into personal experiences disguised as sweeping statements. KH's wording in some posts may look broad and sweeping but I don't believe she meant it. Anyways, there's no reason to argue. We've all have tough times with cultural or religious issues at one time in our relationship...I mean re: Americans marrying MENA ppl. I can tell you what I've experienced but you may never experience it and vice versa. That being said, Muslims/Arabs, in general, have certain common denominators in their religious/cultural attitudes. Some more extreme than others. So let's share our experiences and maybe it will be eye opening for some or maybe we can share a common bond if we can relate to each other. Kumbaya people, kumbaya.

I love it!!!!

[Nothing1234 2]

I think alot of the things your saying KH are based on your personal experience sadly, that, or Jordan (lived there for a year) is alot different from Egypt, Morocco, Etc. The kids in jordan definitly got time outs, I rarely saw a kid spanked, and 2 of my bro in laws are stay at home dads. Your right when saying my husband has ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE with a child, however he stood by my side in the delivery room, and took to being a dad from day 1. When zaid was 5 weeks old I went back to work and Sofyan took care of Colicky Zaid for 2 months day in and day out. Diapers, Formula, Hours of crying, he did it all. Now that Zaid is getting bigger Sofyan is patient as ever, even uses "time out" several times a day. You cannot stereo type an entire country/region of people based on a few experiences you have had/heard of. There are many signs or warnings that can prepare you for your husband to turn into a piece of ###### husband/dad. If he is aggresive or violent towards you or his family, chances are he will be with his kids. Point is, 99% of the time you KNOW what your getting yourself into. All men are different, its up to you to take off the rose colored glasses and be a good judge of character before you put a ring on your finger.

KH,

I have to agree with Kelly. I am not attacking and many times I enjoy reading about your personal experiences as they really do help everyone in the future to keep their eyes open for signs. However, while my husband did not come here with experience raising a child. (Ummm I had no experience either...lol. ) He does his best. Do we both raise our voices, HECK YES! Do we scream and rant and rave to get them to do things...never. We are patient to a point (with twins ) and we try to use time out tho they haven't quite understood that yet. My husband as many are aware on here stays home with our twins since the day they were born while I work during the day. He just recently started working nights so that we can cover the "childcare" on our own. We decided as a family we wanted to be home for our kids. He makes most of the decisions on what they eat, what new toys, books, food we introduce to them....he's really embraced the "At Home Dad" lifestyle; dirty diapers and all. He googles everything from safety issues, new foods, stages babies go thru and grills our pediatrician to the point that I wonder if he has the "mommy bug" and I missed out on that gene! While its not what he envisioned (i'm sure) when coming to America he takes it all in stride. I have gf's that are married to American men and are in shock at the amount of involvement my husband has....many of htem can't even get their husbands to change a diaper, do laundry, feed a baby, or wash a dish. So in my opinion, what you described, may be the way a person is raised, not just the country/region he is from.

Raising twins is no easy task (nor raising just one child) however, I'm proud to say he's not that "MENA man" you have described. He's calm, collected and completely into raising our children day in and day out. I however, might fall into that category a bit....

I wish everyone the best experiences with their spouses in raising children and mixing religions, etc.

Forgot to add:

Kumbaya MENA, kumbaya.

[Y's_habibitk 2]

- I have to wait until sundown for my ice cream.....

Anyway, it's been interesting reading what everyone has to say. What I try to do (and am not always completely successful - I'm far from perfect ) is read what everyone has to say, realize that we all have our own experiences and points of view, and not get upset (that's the hard part) about anything. It's difficult sometimes, though, because I DO feel defensive at times - like when I went to a family event recently and was more or less shunned by a few relatives I used to be close to (in my pre-"married to an Arab" days). Face it, NO relationship is perfect, but when we have the inevitable problems, we feel like 'everyone' is going to say it's because of the mixed marriage. I love my husband, and I think he's really wonderful. Neither of us is perfect, though, and we have our times - one was Saturday night/early Sunday, actually. I was in tears, but felt I couldn't call anyone to talk, though, because if whoever I called even suggested it was because of who he was, that would really get my dander up! Definitely not what I needed.

Anyway, the reason I like to read posts from others though, is that as well as we've managed to cope, it can be SO helpful to get insight from others. Some of you might have read my posts in the past. One thing I wish I had known in the past was how to handle my husband's moods. We had a few really horrible fights last year until I figured out to leave him alone and give him his space. Yeah, I know that is probably true of all or most men (not just MENA), but I wasn't expecting the "I made a mistake marrying you, I should go back home and divorce you" type of statements. It was soooooooo wonderful when I read that many MENA men (no, not saying "all") go through that phase, but that it (at least usually) passes. It still really sucked at the time, but it ended after a few weeks. Somehow it helps to know that I'm not the only one who dealt with that. I also wish someone had warned me about the treatment we got at the POE when he first arrived.

The problem with all of this information is that it sometimes gets difficult to keep from getting paranoid and overly sensitive! I think that's why some of us get really angry and defensive when we hear anyone say anything bad about even one MENA man. It's hard enough to hear it from people we realize "don't know any better" (like my idiot relatives, or even well meaning but clueless friends), but when it comes from within the group (where we sometimes ONLY want to feel safe, supported, and encouraged), sometimes it's too hard to deal with. I try (again, not always successful) to keep in mind that some of us are hurting, some of us are being protective and not wanting others to get hurt, and some of us are (at least at that moment, and often due to outside-of-the-relationship reasons) very sensitive to any type of criticism and feel like we're being attacked. When we're feeling vulnerable for whatever reason (just had a fight, having trouble understanding the SO, recently got insulted by a rude or clueless person, whatever), it's very easy to mistake "please be careful" for "your relationship is automatically doomed because you married a MENA man". And also, everyone runs into finding out at least once in a while that what was in their minds wasn't exactly matched to how it was interpreted by others.

So, for what it's worth, I (with all the best intentions) suggest that we all listen to what everyone has to say, realize that some of what you hear could be something to look out for - but not expect all of the 'bad' stuff to happen to you. The trick is to figure out what to totally ignore and what to remember and use in a good way to avoid or at least solve problems. Add in the difficulties we all face: 1 - just being in a relationship; 2 - adjusting to a new and different person/culture; 3 - dealing with all the naysayers on the outside who give their unwanted and rude opinions - and there's going to be some hurt feelings. If I wasn't so human, I'd just not read posts when I feel a little emotionally vulnerable. Unfortunately, that's often when I turn to VJ for advice or just as my form of escape (since I don't really have other vices to resort to, like drinking or whatever - I'm a procrastinator/avoider).

We'll all have to forgive each other for any stepping on toes. I apologize if I did or will upset anyone - not my intent. I guess growing up in the family I did, and then dealing with a total jerk in a horrible 15 year marriage, has really developed my desire to smooth things over whenever possible.

I wish all of you peace, love, and happiness - and a smooth journey!

venusfire

thanks for sharing and taking the time to write all of that.

[ya falaha! 0]

Venusfire, I'm sorry you've had some terrible things said to you. Men can be jerks, women can be jerks. American men could've said they made a mistake marrying you just the same as a MENA dude. People can say some really hurtful things when they're angry. My husband isn't always pleasant, I'm not always pleasant. I can be a real jackass. What I'm saying is, certain behaviors aren't always culturally or religious related. Some husbands are just straight up a-holes.

[allousa 1]

- I have to wait until sundown for my ice cream.....

Anyway, it's been interesting reading what everyone has to say. What I try to do (and am not always completely successful - I'm far from perfect ) is read what everyone has to say, realize that we all have our own experiences and points of view, and not get upset (that's the hard part) about anything. It's difficult sometimes, though, because I DO feel defensive at times - like when I went to a family event recently and was more or less shunned by a few relatives I used to be close to (in my pre-"married to an Arab" days). Face it, NO relationship is perfect, but when we have the inevitable problems, we feel like 'everyone' is going to say it's because of the mixed marriage. I love my husband, and I think he's really wonderful. Neither of us is perfect, though, and we have our times - one was Saturday night/early Sunday, actually. I was in tears, but felt I couldn't call anyone to talk, though, because if whoever I called even suggested it was because of who he was, that would really get my dander up! Definitely not what I needed.

Anyway, the reason I like to read posts from others though, is that as well as we've managed to cope, it can be SO helpful to get insight from others. Some of you might have read my posts in the past. One thing I wish I had known in the past was how to handle my husband's moods. We had a few really horrible fights last year until I figured out to leave him alone and give him his space. Yeah, I know that is probably true of all or most men (not just MENA), but I wasn't expecting the "I made a mistake marrying you, I should go back home and divorce you" type of statements. It was soooooooo wonderful when I read that many MENA men (no, not saying "all") go through that phase, but that it (at least usually) passes. It still really sucked at the time, but it ended after a few weeks. Somehow it helps to know that I'm not the only one who dealt with that. I also wish someone had warned me about the treatment we got at the POE when he first arrived.

The problem with all of this information is that it sometimes gets difficult to keep from getting paranoid and overly sensitive! I think that's why some of us get really angry and defensive when we hear anyone say anything bad about even one MENA man. It's hard enough to hear it from people we realize "don't know any better" (like my idiot relatives, or even well meaning but clueless friends), but when it comes from within the group (where we sometimes ONLY want to feel safe, supported, and encouraged), sometimes it's too hard to deal with. I try (again, not always successful) to keep in mind that some of us are hurting, some of us are being protective and not wanting others to get hurt, and some of us are (at least at that moment, and often due to outside-of-the-relationship reasons) very sensitive to any type of criticism and feel like we're being attacked. When we're feeling vulnerable for whatever reason (just had a fight, having trouble understanding the SO, recently got insulted by a rude or clueless person, whatever), it's very easy to mistake "please be careful" for "your relationship is automatically doomed because you married a MENA man". And also, everyone runs into finding out at least once in a while that what was in their minds wasn't exactly matched to how it was interpreted by others.

So, for what it's worth, I (with all the best intentions) suggest that we all listen to what everyone has to say, realize that some of what you hear could be something to look out for - but not expect all of the 'bad' stuff to happen to you. The trick is to figure out what to totally ignore and what to remember and use in a good way to avoid or at least solve problems. Add in the difficulties we all face: 1 - just being in a relationship; 2 - adjusting to a new and different person/culture; 3 - dealing with all the naysayers on the outside who give their unwanted and rude opinions - and there's going to be some hurt feelings. If I wasn't so human, I'd just not read posts when I feel a little emotionally vulnerable. Unfortunately, that's often when I turn to VJ for advice or just as my form of escape (since I don't really have other vices to resort to, like drinking or whatever - I'm a procrastinator/avoider).

We'll all have to forgive each other for any stepping on toes. I apologize if I did or will upset anyone - not my intent. I guess growing up in the family I did, and then dealing with a total jerk in a horrible 15 year marriage, has really developed my desire to smooth things over whenever possible.

I wish all of you peace, love, and happiness - and a smooth journey!

venusfire

It never is easy to expose yourself to open criticism and comments. I appreciate your comments and hope that others do as well.