Just had investigators at my door!

[Linkin 0]

thx for sharing your thoughts! This is what i have been trying to explain to this fine guy...asking for consitutional rights is perfectly fine but with Immi laws, you have to be more flexible. You realy never know whats ahead waiting for you...Again ask for the rights is somewhat differnet but sometimes when certain things go wrong, you need to mould yourself especially if you are dealing with Immigration laws...

I completely agree with TBoneTx. However, I will admit that before reading this thread and not knowing the legal situation in the US on searches like that, I would also have let them in, feeling that we have nothing to hide. Being better informed now, I would not want to let them in without warrant and attorney present, but I still wonder what will happen if we deny their request? Will this cause problems that we most likely wouldn't have had if we had let them check our living situation?

I'll admit that I don't really expect a home visit at all, given that we have been in a relationship for almost four years, have lived together in the US already in the past while I was on another visa, and with me being from a country just as prosperous as the US and having given up a good job to come here... but who knows, maybe they pull this off on people with zero red flags as well. So what do you think will happen in practice if we insist on our constitutional rights? Will we then actually need an attorney?

Na alles klar, kannst du auch sprechen deutsch!????

I completely agree with TBoneTx. However, I will admit that before reading this thread and not knowing the legal situation in the US on searches like that, I would also have let them in, feeling that we have nothing to hide. Being better informed now, I would not want to let them in without warrant and attorney present, but I still wonder what will happen if we deny their request? Will this cause problems that we most likely wouldn't have had if we had let them check our living situation?

I'll admit that I don't really expect a home visit at all, given that we have been in a relationship for almost four years, have lived together in the US already in the past while I was on another visa, and with me being from a country just as prosperous as the US and having given up a good job to come here... but who knows, maybe they pull this off on people with zero red flags as well. So what do you think will happen in practice if we insist on our constitutional rights? Will we then actually need an attorney?

[rsn 135]

thx for sharing your thoughts! This is what i have been trying to explain to this fine guy...asking for consitutional rights is perfectly fine but with Immi laws, you have to be more flexible. You realy never know whats ahead waiting for you...Again ask for the rights is somewhat differnet but sometimes when certain things go wrong, you need to mould yourself especially if you are dealing with Immigration laws...

"Asking for your constitution rights is fine, but..." That's the most absurd thing ever uttered. Your assertion that you should only exercise your constitutional rights in certain situations is a dangerous one indeed. Think about the implications of this. Think carefully. Very carefully.

[Linkin 0]

Thinking carefully and implementing rights are two different thing. Ppl here who are talking about their consitutional rights, tell me how many times in your life you have excersied them. Do you only care about these rights in action when it comes to Immigration. Wowww. I am wondering what philosphy you guys carryin around. I can assure you, you can't even resist them to stop entering your house..

Say only those things you can do my friend..

Sir. This is for you too...

thx for sharing your thoughts! This is what i have been trying to explain to this fine guy...asking for consitutional rights is perfectly fine but with Immi laws, you have to be more flexible. You realy never know whats ahead waiting for you...Again ask for the rights is somewhat differnet but sometimes when certain things go wrong, you need to mould yourself especially if you are dealing with Immigration laws...

"Asking for your constitution rights is fine, but..." That's the most absurd thing ever uttered. Your assertion that you should only exercise your constitutional rights in certain situations is a dangerous one indeed. Think about the implications of this. Think carefully. Very carefully.

[Linkin 0]

I am not going negative to anyone's opinion but asking to cooperate with the law. Thats it

Becuase i follow the laws as hard as you do, and know my rights either

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I completely agree with TBoneTx. However, I will admit that before reading this thread and not knowing the legal situation in the US on searches like that, I would also have let them in, feeling that we have nothing to hide. Being better informed now, I would not want to let them in without warrant and attorney present, but I still wonder what will happen if we deny their request? Will this cause problems that we most likely wouldn't have had if we had let them check our living situation?

I'll admit that I don't really expect a home visit at all, given that we have been in a relationship for almost four years, have lived together in the US already in the past while I was on another visa, and with me being from a country just as prosperous as the US and having given up a good job to come here... but who knows, maybe they pull this off on people with zero red flags as well. So what do you think will happen in practice if we insist on our constitutional rights? Will we then actually need an attorney?

There have been three occasions in my life where a law enforcement officer asked to enter my home. This was in three different states. I politely asked if they had a warrant. They said "no", so I asked them to go get one. In all three instances, they did not return with a warrant. This is because they didn't have enough evidence to convince a judge that a warrant was justified. They were just "fishing", and hoping to catch something.

I have never had any consequences as a result of these incidents. In one case, I even saw one of the cops frequently at a local restaurant. We chatted occasionally, and it was always friendly conversation.

The United States is not a police state (at least, not yet). You cannot be punished for exercising your rights. By the same token, you should not allow a law enforcement officer to intimidate you into giving up your rights. A large number of people are arrested and convicted every year because they gave up their rights and consented to a search, and then thought they could talk their way out of it and gave up their right to remain silent. Law enforcement officers are very well aware of how successful they can be if they can scare you into giving up your rights. Don't do it. Insist that they follow the laws they are sworn to uphold, and get a warrant.

[beinha 0]

And remember your Constitutional rights! Currently, you do NOT need to let anyone in without a valid search warrant or answer ANY questions until you consult with an attorney!

Hi!

I remember your posts when I got my NOA2 (the record 16 days one) and you always have such a good information for us, how about you create a forum with your advice about this subject (the investigators and our rights)? I'm sure many people would appreciate your advice considering you really know what you are talking about. The "it's true relationship, why should us to be afraid" it's kind of innocent as you explain so well before.

Beinha

[Philosykos 0]

Sorry, I really didn't mean to invite applause from you, Linkin. I don't want to offend you, but I have to make it clear that even if you may think so, I do NOT AT ALL agree with anything you posted here in this thread. I think your arguments, written in barely comprehensible English that makes cringe at every sentence, only show that you are not getting the point at all. I simply meant to ask what we might expect if we did what is legally sound.

thx for sharing your thoughts! This is what i have been trying to explain to this fine guy...asking for consitutional rights is perfectly fine but with Immi laws, you have to be more flexible. You realy never know whats ahead waiting for you...Again ask for the rights is somewhat differnet but sometimes when certain things go wrong, you need to mould yourself especially if you are dealing with Immigration laws...

I completely agree with TBoneTx. However, I will admit that before reading this thread and not knowing the legal situation in the US on searches like that, I would also have let them in, feeling that we have nothing to hide. Being better informed now, I would not want to let them in without warrant and attorney present, but I still wonder what will happen if we deny their request? Will this cause problems that we most likely wouldn't have had if we had let them check our living situation?

I'll admit that I don't really expect a home visit at all, given that we have been in a relationship for almost four years, have lived together in the US already in the past while I was on another visa, and with me being from a country just as prosperous as the US and having given up a good job to come here... but who knows, maybe they pull this off on people with zero red flags as well. So what do you think will happen in practice if we insist on our constitutional rights? Will we then actually need an attorney?

Na alles klar, kannst du auch sprechen deutsch!????

I completely agree with TBoneTx. However, I will admit that before reading this thread and not knowing the legal situation in the US on searches like that, I would also have let them in, feeling that we have nothing to hide. Being better informed now, I would not want to let them in without warrant and attorney present, but I still wonder what will happen if we deny their request? Will this cause problems that we most likely wouldn't have had if we had let them check our living situation?

I'll admit that I don't really expect a home visit at all, given that we have been in a relationship for almost four years, have lived together in the US already in the past while I was on another visa, and with me being from a country just as prosperous as the US and having given up a good job to come here... but who knows, maybe they pull this off on people with zero red flags as well. So what do you think will happen in practice if we insist on our constitutional rights? Will we then actually need an attorney?

[Philosykos 0]

I completely agree with TBoneTx. However, I will admit that before reading this thread and not knowing the legal situation in the US on searches like that, I would also have let them in, feeling that we have nothing to hide. Being better informed now, I would not want to let them in without warrant and attorney present, but I still wonder what will happen if we deny their request? Will this cause problems that we most likely wouldn't have had if we had let them check our living situation?

I'll admit that I don't really expect a home visit at all, given that we have been in a relationship for almost four years, have lived together in the US already in the past while I was on another visa, and with me being from a country just as prosperous as the US and having given up a good job to come here... but who knows, maybe they pull this off on people with zero red flags as well. So what do you think will happen in practice if we insist on our constitutional rights? Will we then actually need an attorney?

There have been three occasions in my life where a law enforcement officer asked to enter my home. This was in three different states. I politely asked if they had a warrant. They said "no", so I asked them to go get one. In all three instances, they did not return with a warrant. This is because they didn't have enough evidence to convince a judge that a warrant was justified. They were just "fishing", and hoping to catch something.

I have never had any consequences as a result of these incidents. In one case, I even saw one of the cops frequently at a local restaurant. We chatted occasionally, and it was always friendly conversation.

The United States is not a police state (at least, not yet). You cannot be punished for exercising your rights. By the same token, you should not allow a law enforcement officer to intimidate you into giving up your rights. A large number of people are arrested and convicted every year because they gave up their rights and consented to a search, and then thought they could talk their way out of it and gave up their right to remain silent. Law enforcement officers are very well aware of how successful they can be if they can scare you into giving up your rights. Don't do it. Insist that they follow the laws they are sworn to uphold, and get a warrant.

Thank you very much for this very informative response, JimVaPhuong. We'll know what to do should they indeed show up at our doorstep!

[TBoneTX 45,486]

I simply meant to ask what we might expect if we did what is legally sound.

A good & fair question. From post #51: "If you exercise your rights they cannot hold this against you in any way." I see that you have already responded to that poster's later post, which as always is excellent.

To Beinha: I'm flattered, si man, but I am not an attorney -- merely a citizen who (like JimVaPhuong) has innocently crossed trails at times with law enforcement. I researched and familiarized myself with our basic rights (and I agree with JimVa's implication that we are "not YET" a police state, although the Fourth Amendment is one or two more Supreme Court decisions -- or a Presidential declaration of martial law -- away from becoming merely an inkblot). I believe that an attorney should be the one to author and post any "official" language about investigators & our rights. In the meantime, JimVa's writings are excellent reading and refreshingly literate, si man.

Edited August 27, 2009 by TBoneTX

[beinha 0]

To Beinha: I'm flattered, si man, but I am not an attorney -- merely a citizen who (like JimVaPhuong) has innocently crossed trails at times with law enforcement. I researched and familiarized myself with our basic rights (and I agree with JimVa's implication that we are "not YET" a police state, although the Fourth Amendment is one or two more Supreme Court decisions -- or a Presidential declaration of martial law -- away from becoming merely an inkblot). I believe that an attorney should be the one to author and post any "official" language about investigators & our rights. In the meantime, JimVa's writings are excellent reading and refreshingly literate, si man.

Thank you for your answer, good point, as usual. And all those posts are giving us good information, now is our choice to go find our rights and how to deal with the unexpected. (or USA citizens and permanent residents ones as I'm still in Brazil).

[Philosykos 0]

I simply meant to ask what we might expect if we did what is legally sound.

A good & fair question. From post #51: "If you exercise your rights they cannot hold this against you in any way." I see that you have already responded to that poster's later post, which as always is excellent.

Yes, and I had also read his comment in post #51. I do believe that they cannot officially hold it against you if you exercise your rights, but what about the statement that someone made early on, namely that they are not required to grant your AOS either? Are we truly at their mercy for that? It is often said that immigration is a benefit and not a right, however, I have always been wondering if denying a USC the right to choose whom they want to marry, including someone from another country, and live with them in their own country (the US), isn't infringing on their constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness...

Edited August 27, 2009 by Philosykos

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Thats up to the officer at the interview. Its there where you might have to prove yourself with evidence or be subjected to a Stokes interview. Even if they intend to deny because of the Stokes you get an opportunity to explain differences in the answers. ICE doesn't make any decisions or recommendations they just collect the evidence. If they can not access the house that is all they can really report.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

whatever you said leads to one dodgy relationship like having EX letter on the table, you deserve to get busted by ICE PPL

I probably should be offended by this. Both my wife and I have a box with stuff like this in it as keepsakes...old girlfriends etc. I guess according to Linkin I deserve to get "busted" by ICE.

Edited August 27, 2009 by lancer1655

[TBoneTX 45,486]

Lancer's comments continue to be sensible.

Here is a link to some overview information about interactions with police (this also goes for Federal agents):

http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html

Also, if you search various attorneys' websites, you can often find very good recommendations.

[NCWife 0]

Well... my husband works for the Sheriff's Office and he always tells me not to let anyone in the house even if they are law enforcement officers in uniform. Unless they have the search warrant, then I will have to comply. He tells me this not just because of my rights, it's for my safety reasons too.

IMO, if the Immigration wants to do surprise search, then they better armed with a search warrant or think of a better way to catch a non bonafide relationship.

Cheers...