Sarah and the Death Panels

[SMOKE 1,426]

wait a minute here. now supporters of the healthcare reform heath insurance reform bill are admitting there will be death panels & care will be rationed just like it is now?

Who is saying that?

you are admitting that it currently happens.

Newsflash, Pat: We have rationed care today where care to terminally ill is denied. Have you not followed the debate on health care reform? Have you tuned out when people reported of being dumped by their health insurance carriers or denied coverage for procedures their doctor recommended? Who are you trying to fool? Yeah, don't answer that, I know you you're fooling.

and if you're insinuating it won't under the gov't plan. ask yourself your own question & see your answer in red.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

wait a minute here. now supporters of the healthcare reform heath insurance reform bill are admitting there will be death panels & care will be rationed just like it is now?

Who is saying that?

you are admitting that it currently happens.

Newsflash, Pat: We have rationed care today where care to terminally ill is denied. Have you not followed the debate on health care reform? Have you tuned out when people reported of being dumped by their health insurance carriers or denied coverage for procedures their doctor recommended? Who are you trying to fool? Yeah, don't answer that, I know you you're fooling.

and if you're insinuating it won't under the gov't plan. ask yourself your own question & see your answer in red.

I think you're assuming a lot there. Merely saying that this rationed care argument is false because it happens already under the current system does not imply anything in relation to current talks about healthcare reform.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Private Pike

[HAL 9000 96]

I think the only point worth making here is that we'd be free to have a more honest discussion about healthcare reform if we did away with bogus scaremongering arguments like the one Palin is pushing.

A-men.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Is Sarah really full of #######? NO!

UPDATE: The Death Book For VeternsAug 21, 2009 at 9:44 PM 13 comments Robert A. Pearlman, MD, MPH: Chief, Ethics Evaluation

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use. Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your Life, Your Choices."

Who is the primary author of this workbook? Dr. Robert Pearlman, chief of ethics evaluation for the center, a man who in 1996 advocated for physician-assisted suicide in Vacco v. Quill before the U.S. Supreme Court and is known for his support of health-care rationing.

Robert Pearlman, MD, MPH, is a Professor of Medicine (as well as Health Services, and Medical History and Ethics) at the University of Washington. He attended Boston University School of Medicine and completed his residency training in Internal Medicine at Emory University and the University of Washington. He received post-residency training as a Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholar, a Fellow in the Ethics and the Professions Program at Harvard University, and a Faculty Scholar in the Project on Death in America. He joined the Center in the summer of 2000. His interests and expertise pertain to empirical research in clinical ethics (especially end-of-life care) and organizational ethics. His research has explored euthanasia, the role of quality of life in decision-making, the validity of life-sustaining treatment preferences, medical futility, advance care planning, physician-assisted suicide, and relief of patient suffering. (I will change "palliative care" to over-drugging of patients to the point of death, since paliative care does have it's place in pain relief (what is refered to as palliative care) He is the author of two books and over 100 publications in medical journals and book chapters. His most recent book, entitled Your Life, Your Choices, is an interactive workbook to help patients and family members with advance care planning. (sound like obamacare???)

Your Life, Your Choices will be available to veterans through MyHealtheVet in 2007. He has mentored many junior faculty throughout the United States in the technique of combining empirical research methods and ethics. Ethics my ####, murderer is more like it!

http://a12iggymom.vox.com/library/post/the...or-veterns.html

The workbook.

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

[Peikko 1,575]

So you don't think that making choices about these tough decisions for your self while you are healthy and in full possession of your mental faculties is prudent? Much better to leave it to the guess work of a relative while under severe emotional distress? Surprised? Well, no, you are the one that believes that when you have flu symptoms the place to go is the Dr's office to infect all the sick people.

Perhaps you don't believe in making wills either?

Edited August 24, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

wait a minute here. now supporters of the healthcare reform heath insurance reform bill are admitting there will be death panels & care will be rationed just like it is now?

Who is saying that?

You are admitting that it currently happens.

Yes, I am. And yet, I have thus far made no statement as to what effect any reform measure that may pass will have on the current practice of rationing and denying care. I'm not sure how you arrived at your claim that I have somehow admitted that there will be death panels and that care will be rationed following a reform of the health insurance system.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That workbook is all about preparing a living will, doesn't say anything about enforced euthanasia.

Living wills were a big deal during the Terry Schiavo case in 2005 - and supposedly the solution to preventing confusion arising about the individuals wishes for end of life treatment (whether they want to be resuscitated, whether they want their life support machine switched off if they are deemed to be in a vegetative state etc) and to prevent disagreements between the patients relatives about what their loved one would have wanted.

What didn't get any press was that certain laws (like the one in Texas) override any living will that the patient might have - putting your wishes down on paper might take away ambiguity but it doesn't guarantee that hospitals are obliged to honour it.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Private Pike

[HAL 9000 96]

So much for 'personal responsibility.'

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

We shouldn't encourage people to make living wills because it "scares" them. Seriously, Grassley (that senile old fuсk) actually said that.

[Peikko 1,575]

I can't understand why making a living will is so scary. It's like making any will, it's prudent and responsible.

[The Dude 206]

We shouldn't encourage people to make living wills because it "scares" them. Seriously, Grassley (that senile old fuсk) actually said that.

Being prepared scares people? What happened to the boy scouts of America?

[Peikko 1,575]

Leaving this stuff to chance is scary - and leaving all the decision making to relatives who are under extreme stress.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I can't understand why making a living will is so scary. It's like making any will, it's prudent and responsible.

It's because Republicans are basically scared little bitсhes hiding behind their guns and ammo.

[Peikko 1,575]

I see, so if you don't make a will you aren't going to die? Is that the logic?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We shouldn't encourage people to make living wills because it "scares" them. Seriously, Grassley (that senile old fuсk) actually said that.

Remember, the GOP isn't interested in a debate on the issue nor is the GOP interested in what's best for the American people. The GOP is interested only in what they perceive to be best for the GOP - the failure of any health care related reform measure whatsoever.

Health Care Reform = Obama's Waterloo. ** America and ** the American people.

There's the GOP strategery for you.