Newbie with questions!

[ohnodidit 0]

Hi all I have heard many great things about this website so I am excited to participate.

You will all learn quickly I am VERY long winded, sorry upfront I am a talker.

My story is a met a wonderful Moroccan man while I was in Italy in April. We met at the train station late one night, he saved me from a vending machine LOL! Anyway without going into the sappy love story it has become, suffice it to say we are smitten with one another and I have just returned from a wonderful two week stint with him last Wednesday, it is AWFUL to be separated from him so we are trying to figure out our best move. I did not realize he being a Moroccan citizen had to have a visa to travel here, I am quite clueless about all of this. He knew he did he just was not sure why and has not the first clue about the process. For several reasons I am not comfortable bringing someone to the States with them NEVER visiting here and then having to marry them within 90 days, not today, maybe in the future but not today. The other most important issue is I am in the middle of a divorce, it is not final so a fiancee visa is a moot point anyway right now. We have discussed so many things my head is spinning, anything from me moving to Italy for awhile, to tourist visa to fiancee visa and everything in between. We, like all of you HATE being apart and the thought of only seeing each other every 4-5 months with any luck is just a painful thought and makes us both cry. This is all leading up to my question I promise : ) Soooo while I was in Italy what we thought was he would try for a tourist visa this fall, I am due to go to Morocco in January and with any luck my divorce will be final. So, if by some miracle he were to get approved we could come back to the States together. OK here are the questions should we even TRY the tourist visa? He has been in Italy for five almost six years but is not a citizen so he needs to file from Morocco. He does have a house and money BUT no way to prove he has a job to go back to there because he doesn't. He certainly fits the profile of what they are looking to deny, single 30, Muslim.....but he is of the opinion well it is only 300.00 if I get denied we will try something else and I completely support that bc I WANT him to visit before he decides to move.........BUT I have been told he may be red flagged in the future if we do try a fiancee visa and cause another denial, so is it worth the try? Also I thought I would write a sponsorship letter and admit what we were doing that we were trying to get him to visit before he decides to move BUT now I feel like I have been strongly advised not to do that again it may cause problems in the future...........We just do not know what to do and can not stand the thought of being apart while my divorce settles and then ANOTHER 8-10 months doing a fiancee visa. From the experts I need your help! Thank you!

[Jenn! 918]

Does he have a permesso di soggiorno in Italy (i.e. is he there legally?). If so, I have heard that he can go through the consulate in Italy to apply for a tourist visa. You would have to confirm this with the consulate though. He has a better chance of getting a tourist visa as a legal resident in Italy than if he were to apply from Morocco. A man in his demographic applying from Morocco has virtually NO chance of getting a tourist visa.

I think it's a very good idea to spend more time with him in person before making the decision to apply for a fiance visa. I know for some people it's just not practical, but if you have the means to spend some more time together, I would strongly recommend that you do so. The easier way to do this would be for you to move to Italy for a while if you're able to.

What part of Italy does he live in? I was living in Genova when I met my husband and we were there for a couple of years before deciding to go through the visa process and move to the U.S.

[Dakine 26]

Have him try for the B2 tourist visa . Only cost $131 US. Him owning his own house is a plus.

Being denied won't hurt his chances of a immigrant visas later as LOTS of people are denied tourist visas.

[ohnodidit 0]

Does he have a permesso di soggiorno in Italy (i.e. is he there legally?). If so, I have heard that he can go through the consulate in Italy to apply for a tourist visa. You would have to confirm this with the consulate though. He has a better chance of getting a tourist visa as a legal resident in Italy than if he were to apply from Morocco. A man in his demographic applying from Morocco has virtually NO chance of getting a tourist visa.

I think it's a very good idea to spend more time with him in person before making the decision to apply for a fiance visa. I know for some people it's just not practical, but if you have the means to spend some more time together, I would strongly recommend that you do so. The easier way to do this would be for you to move to Italy for a while if you're able to.

What part of Italy does he live in? I was living in Genova when I met my husband and we were there for a couple of years before deciding to go through the visa process and move to the U.S.

Yeah, he is NOT legal I was hoping he was, although he was working in a factory they MUST have been paying him under the table, I will ask again but I am virtually positive he is not. He lives in Padova and has been there almost six years which is great except it is going to cause problems with a tourist visa. I was just reading about the spousal visa and now I am rethinking the moving to Italy sometime next year and maybe if we decide to we can get married there, obviously I need to do more research but it may solve some problems and just be quicker. Or he can go ahead and file for the tourist visa knowing he will probably be denied and then we can make another plan.

[Kenza 1]

I agree with Jenn, and even if he is denied a tourist visa, it won't jeopardize his chances of getting any other kind of visa. My husband tried to get a tourist visa but was denied and there is another woman on this forum whose husband applied 3 times for a tourist visa and was denied each time but was approved for their immigrant visa.

Does he have a permesso di soggiorno in Italy (i.e. is he there legally?). If so, I have heard that he can go through the consulate in Italy to apply for a tourist visa. You would have to confirm this with the consulate though. He has a better chance of getting a tourist visa as a legal resident in Italy than if he were to apply from Morocco. A man in his demographic applying from Morocco has virtually NO chance of getting a tourist visa.

I think it's a very good idea to spend more time with him in person before making the decision to apply for a fiance visa. I know for some people it's just not practical, but if you have the means to spend some more time together, I would strongly recommend that you do so. The easier way to do this would be for you to move to Italy for a while if you're able to.

What part of Italy does he live in? I was living in Genova when I met my husband and we were there for a couple of years before deciding to go through the visa process and move to the U.S.

Yeah, he is NOT legal I was hoping he was, although he was working in a factory they MUST have been paying him under the table, I will ask again but I am virtually positive he is not. He lives in Padova and has been there almost six years which is great except it is going to cause problems with a tourist visa. I was just reading about the spousal visa and now I am rethinking the moving to Italy sometime next year and maybe if we decide to we can get married there, obviously I need to do more research but it may solve some problems and just be quicker. Or he can go ahead and file for the tourist visa knowing he will probably be denied and then we can make another plan.

Sorry, not so sure about illegals ...

[FinnLove 0]

You definitely sound like a smart woman with her head straight! Great idea not to get engaged after only two weeks together. Defintely spend more time with him. I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'd assume his being illegal in Italy is going to be a problem! He should get the heck out of Italy and go back home. If he gets arrested/deported there (Italy), he's screwed.

Edited to say that now I figured you've seen him at least twice-in April and just now for two weeks. Oops!

Edited August 24, 2009 by FinnLove

[PeruvyandGringa 25]

My fiance is Peruvian but is living in Spain legally. He DID apply for the tourist visa last November? (I don't remember exactly, last fall) in Spain, they took the money and the visa was denied. I have since found out from another woman that they had applied 3 times for the tourist visa, and all were denied, they when they finally applied for the fiance visa, that was approved. It took me many more months and 2 more long visits together before we decided to apply for the fiance visa. We decided to go for the fiance visa before my last visit there. While I was in Spain this last time he also surprised me with a ring. I do still worry about him moving here without ever having been to the US, but he does a good job at reassuring me.

Also, how would you go about moving to Italy? I only ask b/c we were thinking the same thing about me going to Spain, but didn't think it was possible in the near future (not until after he became a citizen and we got married)...

[ohnodidit 0]

My fiance is Peruvian but is living in Spain legally. He DID apply for the tourist visa last November? (I don't remember exactly, last fall) in Spain, they took the money and the visa was denied. I have since found out from another woman that they had applied 3 times for the tourist visa, and all were denied, they when they finally applied for the fiance visa, that was approved. It took me many more months and 2 more long visits together before we decided to apply for the fiance visa. We decided to go for the fiance visa before my last visit there. While I was in Spain this last time he also surprised me with a ring. I do still worry about him moving here without ever having been to the US, but he does a good job at reassuring me.

Also, how would you go about moving to Italy? I only ask b/c we were thinking the same thing about me going to Spain, but didn't think it was possible in the near future (not until after he became a citizen and we got married)...

Well that has been a concern because in Italy evidently they do not REALLY want Americans coming over and taking their jobs so they make it hard for us to live there! The ONLY way it could work is if somehow I could get a job with an American company in Italy.......honestly for two reasons, 1) so I could legally work there and 2) in the future if we DID decide to pursue a fiancee visa I have to have proof that I can support him here for some amount of time....if I cannot prove any income then we are screwed that route as well anyway none of the options are good and I was just reading about the tourist visa again there is NO way he will get approved, I cannot see how, we will be happy to keep his money and then deny him...........

[Kenza 1]

My fiance is Peruvian but is living in Spain legally. He DID apply for the tourist visa last November? (I don't remember exactly, last fall) in Spain, they took the money and the visa was denied. I have since found out from another woman that they had applied 3 times for the tourist visa, and all were denied, they when they finally applied for the fiance visa, that was approved. It took me many more months and 2 more long visits together before we decided to apply for the fiance visa. We decided to go for the fiance visa before my last visit there. While I was in Spain this last time he also surprised me with a ring. I do still worry about him moving here without ever having been to the US, but he does a good job at reassuring me.

Also, how would you go about moving to Italy? I only ask b/c we were thinking the same thing about me going to Spain, but didn't think it was possible in the near future (not until after he became a citizen and we got married)...

Well that has been a concern because in Italy evidently they do not REALLY want Americans coming over and taking their jobs so they make it hard for us to live there! The ONLY way it could work is if somehow I could get a job with an American company in Italy.......honestly for two reasons, 1) so I could legally work there and 2) in the future if we DID decide to pursue a fiancee visa I have to have proof that I can support him here for some amount of time....if I cannot prove any income then we are screwed that route as well anyway none of the options are good and I was just reading about the tourist visa again there is NO way he will get approved, I cannot see how, we will be happy to keep his money and then deny him...........

If you are sure about the relationship and there is no way for you to live with him in Italy then the best route in my opinion is for him to go back to Morocco and you apply for a fiance visa. However you do have the problems of your pending divorce and the issue of him living in Italy illegally- it might bring problems during the interview

[Jenn! 918]

Actually, experiences here on VJ have shown that illegal presence in other countries does not negatively affect the chances of a successful visa petition. It might seem counter intuitive, but the U.S. is not concerned with non-U.S. immigration violations.

You did say you are planning to go to Morocco in January. If your SO returns to Morocco, he will not be able to get back to Italy, since he is illegal there. So if the plan is for him to return to Morocco, moving to Italy won't really be a suitable option anyway.

Best thing is for your SO to return to Morocco, you to make some visits there to get to know him better and wait until your divorce is final. Then you can make a decision to file a petition for the fiance visa. LDR's are not ideal - being apart is definitely difficult. But most of us make it through!

[ohnodidit 0]

Actually, experiences here on VJ have shown that illegal presence in other countries does not negatively affect the chances of a successful visa petition. It might seem counter intuitive, but the U.S. is not concerned with non-U.S. immigration violations.

You did say you are planning to go to Morocco in January. If your SO returns to Morocco, he will not be able to get back to Italy, since he is illegal there. So if the plan is for him to return to Morocco, moving to Italy won't really be a suitable option anyway.

Best thing is for your SO to return to Morocco, you to make some visits there to get to know him better and wait until your divorce is final. Then you can make a decision to file a petition for the fiance visa. LDR's are not ideal - being apart is definitely difficult. But most of us make it through!

You would think he would not be able to get back into Italy but you would be surprised NOW maybe it is different with a flight coming from Africa but I have been several times through the Venice airport and have yet to have my passport checked and it sounds like he comes and goes in between Italy and Morocco at will, I will reconfirm but that has been my understanding. He also has told me any number of times he has zero plans of moving back to Morocco because of course it is impossible to find work there. SOOOOO I guess I need to revisit the options with him AGAIN and see what he thinks. What are everyone's thoughts on the sponsorship letter should I get involved or not???

[Jenn! 918]

With the number of Africans living illegally in Italy I would be floored if they weren't checking passports on flights originating from Africa. Maybe customs is extremely lax in Venice, but that really doesn't sound right to me. His papers would also be checked leaving Morocco. Are you sure he doesn't have a permesso di soggiorno? It is extremely unlikely that he travels as he pleases between Morocco and Italy with no papers. I think you need to find out some more solid information before you move forward making any plans.

What do you mean by the sponsorship letter? The affidavit of support for the fiance visa?

Edited August 24, 2009 by Jenn!

[ohnodidit 0]

With the number of Africans living illegally in Italy I would be floored if they weren't checking passports on flights originating from Africa. Maybe customs is extremely lax in Venice, but that really doesn't sound right to me. His papers would also be checked leaving Morocco. Are you sure he doesn't have a permesso di soggiorno? It is extremely unlikely that he travels as he pleases between Morocco and Italy with no papers. I think you need to find out some more solid information before you move forward making any plans.

What do you mean by the sponsorship letter? The affidavit of support for the fiance visa?

Yeah I NEED to find this out because I would be surprised to and the problem may originate in Morocco as you suggested but I know for sure he has been home several times so I will ask about the permesso di soggiorno.

On the tourist visa you can have a sponsorship letter......someone I guess who may vouch for you, say he will be staying with me etc.........my initial thought was of course we will do this and be totally honest, tell them how we met, we are trying to do the responsible thing and have him actually VISIT the country before he ups and moves here but now I have been discouraged saying that immigration does tend to keep track of these things and it may present future problems and that I would be incentive enough for him to stay here illegally..............and they will NOT like that. Jeez, my thoughts are totally opposite seems to make sense to have someone visit see if they even LIKE the country before he moves

[What Happened? 4]

With the number of Africans living illegally in Italy I would be floored if they weren't checking passports on flights originating from Africa. Maybe customs is extremely lax in Venice, but that really doesn't sound right to me. His papers would also be checked leaving Morocco. Are you sure he doesn't have a permesso di soggiorno? It is extremely unlikely that he travels as he pleases between Morocco and Italy with no papers. I think you need to find out some more solid information before you move forward making any plans.

What do you mean by the sponsorship letter? The affidavit of support for the fiance visa?

As of July 2nd the Italian government passed a bill which will soon make it a felony to be in Italy without the proper documentation. I would expect that at some point in the near future your SO will find some difficulty re-entering Italy or entering and staying beyond 90 days without having a problem. The best thing for him to do is when he plans to re-enter Italy......apply for a permit to stay soon after re-entering the country, and then within the allowed timeframe apply for a residency permit that way he won't have to deal with the Carbinieri.