N.J. shooting deaths draw focus to 'two universes' of gun culture

[natty bumppo 297]

I think they're right to want to be rid of illegal guns.

illegal ... meaning those persons not legally permitted to possess ?

how do they do this?

what rights are you willing to see trampled to accomplish this goal?

Edited August 23, 2009 by Natty Bumppo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think they're right to want to be rid of illegal guns.

illegal ... meaning those persons not legally permitted to possess ?

how do they do this?

what rights are you willing to see trampled to accomplish this goal?

Illegally imported weapons, unlicensed weapons - take your pick.

I have no idea how they would or should go about it - I haven't thought that hard about it.

[natty bumppo 297]

I think they're right to want to be rid of illegal guns.

illegal ... meaning those persons not legally permitted to possess ?

how do they do this?

what rights are you willing to see trampled to accomplish this goal?

Illegally imported weapons, unlicensed weapons - take your pick.

I have no idea how they would or should go about it - I haven't thought that hard about it.

how does do you capture the illegally imported weapons? unlicensed weapons?

as for unlicensed ... should the LEOs start by interviewing the ones who legally own firearms?

fwiw: I know the area well enough to know the DCS systems at the various MWRD facilities ...

Edited August 23, 2009 by Natty Bumppo

[Joseph & Ana 0]

I really would like to know where the black-market guns are coming from. Are they old guns, new guns, coming over the 2 borders somehow?

I mean, you walk into a gun-store, you have to have a purchase permit and background check for hand-guns, and they do a background-check right there for the others.

Blaming guns though for murder, is like blaming spoons for Rosie ODonnell being fat. I know, its cliched but i still like it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think they're right to want to be rid of illegal guns.

illegal ... meaning those persons not legally permitted to possess ?

how do they do this?

what rights are you willing to see trampled to accomplish this goal?

Illegally imported weapons, unlicensed weapons - take your pick.

I have no idea how they would or should go about it - I haven't thought that hard about it.

how does do you capture the illegally imported weapons? unlicensed weapons?

as for unlicensed ... should the LEOs start by interviewing the ones who legally own firearms?

fwiw: I know the area well enough to know the DCS systems at the various MWRD facilities ...

I have no idea - hence its more relevant to look at what is actually being done, than asking me to speculate on what ought to be done

[natty bumppo 297]

I think they're right to want to be rid of illegal guns.

illegal ... meaning those persons not legally permitted to possess ?

how do they do this?

what rights are you willing to see trampled to accomplish this goal?

Illegally imported weapons, unlicensed weapons - take your pick.

I have no idea how they would or should go about it - I haven't thought that hard about it.

how does do you capture the illegally imported weapons? unlicensed weapons?

as for unlicensed ... should the LEOs start by interviewing the ones who legally own firearms?

fwiw: I know the area well enough to know the DCS systems at the various MWRD facilities ...

I have no idea - hence its more relevant to look at what is actually being done, than asking me to speculate on what ought to be done

you live 10 minutes from there ...

yet you visit lots of vj threads and have lots of input into these threads ... and have no valuable insite/ input into you own world 10 minutes away from home?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think they're right to want to be rid of illegal guns.

illegal ... meaning those persons not legally permitted to possess ?

how do they do this?

what rights are you willing to see trampled to accomplish this goal?

Illegally imported weapons, unlicensed weapons - take your pick.

I have no idea how they would or should go about it - I haven't thought that hard about it.

how does do you capture the illegally imported weapons? unlicensed weapons?

as for unlicensed ... should the LEOs start by interviewing the ones who legally own firearms?

fwiw: I know the area well enough to know the DCS systems at the various MWRD facilities ...

I have no idea - hence its more relevant to look at what is actually being done, than asking me to speculate on what ought to be done

you live 10 minutes from there ...

yet you visit lots of vj threads and have lots of input into these threads ... and have no valuable insite/ input into you own world 10 minutes away from home?

Natty - are you actually interested in what's going on in Newark, or what I think about it?

Why is it that you think the one has more relevance than the other? The thread topic is about two separate sets of opinions based on some very specific day to day experiences. What anyone here thinks about that doesn't really have a great deal of relevance.

[natty bumppo 297]

I think they're right to want to be rid of illegal guns.

illegal ... meaning those persons not legally permitted to possess ?

how do they do this?

what rights are you willing to see trampled to accomplish this goal?

Illegally imported weapons, unlicensed weapons - take your pick.

I have no idea how they would or should go about it - I haven't thought that hard about it.

how does do you capture the illegally imported weapons? unlicensed weapons?

as for unlicensed ... should the LEOs start by interviewing the ones who legally own firearms?

fwiw: I know the area well enough to know the DCS systems at the various MWRD facilities ...

I have no idea - hence its more relevant to look at what is actually being done, than asking me to speculate on what ought to be done

you live 10 minutes from there ...

yet you visit lots of vj threads and have lots of input into these threads ... and have no valuable insite/ input into you own world 10 minutes away from home?

Natty - are you actually interested in what's going on in Newark, or what I think about it?

Why is it that you think the one has more relevance than the other? The thread topic is about two separate sets of opinions based on some very specific day to day experiences. What anyone here thinks about that doesn't really have a great deal of relevance.

actually both.

one is easy to read about or talk with my friends & co-workers who live in the area ... the other (you) who lives 10 minutes away ... is reluctant

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

A Tampa police officer was killed this week - shot to death by an insane man who legally obtained quite an arsenal of firearms. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with that picture?

who determined he was insane?

But Delgado's family says he was depressed and bipolar, on and off medication, a wanderer, in and out of communication with them. At 34, he was an insomniac.

so bipolar people are insane?

Maybe not but maybe they shouldn't be able to legally acquire firearms.

that's above my pay grade to make that decision.

Well, a fine officer of the Tampa Police Department would be alive today if whack jobs like his killer wouldn't have ready access to firearms.

you do know that one can obtain guns quite easily if they know the right people on the street, don't you? surely you don't think the average gang banger legally obtains their heat from a gun dealer, do you? to use this officer's death to try to indict the gun purchase system with the checks imposed by the brady bill is just a bit dodgy.

Well, had he obtained said firearms illegally, then you may have a point but he didn't. And to try to justify the lack of proper controls in the gun trading business with the excuse that anyone wanting a firearm can just buy it at the next street corner is what's really dodgy.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

who determined he was insane?

But Delgado's family says he was depressed and bipolar, on and off medication, a wanderer, in and out of communication with them. At 34, he was an insomniac.

so bipolar people are insane?

Maybe not but maybe they shouldn't be able to legally acquire firearms.

that's above my pay grade to make that decision.

Well, a fine officer of the Tampa Police Department would be alive today if whack jobs like his killer wouldn't have ready access to firearms.

you do know that one can obtain guns quite easily if they know the right people on the street, don't you? surely you don't think the average gang banger legally obtains their heat from a gun dealer, do you? to use this officer's death to try to indict the gun purchase system with the checks imposed by the brady bill is just a bit dodgy.

Well, had he obtained said firearms illegally, then you may have a point but he didn't. And to try to justify the lack of proper controls in the gun trading business with the excuse that anyone wanting a firearm can just buy it at the next street corner is what's really dodgy.

the proper controls exist. perhaps you missed that in an earlier post of mine:

•Individuals who have ever been involuntarily committed to a mental institution or have been legally declared mentally incompetent

it sounds to me like the real problem is with florida's reporting of things like this and their keeping of an up to date data system.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Maybe not but maybe they shouldn't be able to legally acquire firearms.

that's above my pay grade to make that decision.

Well, a fine officer of the Tampa Police Department would be alive today if whack jobs like his killer wouldn't have ready access to firearms.

you do know that one can obtain guns quite easily if they know the right people on the street, don't you? surely you don't think the average gang banger legally obtains their heat from a gun dealer, do you? to use this officer's death to try to indict the gun purchase system with the checks imposed by the brady bill is just a bit dodgy.

Well, had he obtained said firearms illegally, then you may have a point but he didn't. And to try to justify the lack of proper controls in the gun trading business with the excuse that anyone wanting a firearm can just buy it at the next street corner is what's really dodgy.

the proper controls exist. perhaps you missed that in an earlier post of mine:

•Individuals who have ever been involuntarily committed to a mental institution or have been legally declared mentally incompetent

it sounds to me like the real problem is with florida's reporting of things like this and their keeping of an up to date data system.

Nice try. The firearms were acquired in North Carolina. Besides, I'd say that there are plenty of unstable folks out there that haven't been committed to a mental institution and haven't been declared mentally incompetent but who still are in no mental state of being a responsible gun owner.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Maybe not but maybe they shouldn't be able to legally acquire firearms.

that's above my pay grade to make that decision.

Well, a fine officer of the Tampa Police Department would be alive today if whack jobs like his killer wouldn't have ready access to firearms.

you do know that one can obtain guns quite easily if they know the right people on the street, don't you? surely you don't think the average gang banger legally obtains their heat from a gun dealer, do you? to use this officer's death to try to indict the gun purchase system with the checks imposed by the brady bill is just a bit dodgy.

Well, had he obtained said firearms illegally, then you may have a point but he didn't. And to try to justify the lack of proper controls in the gun trading business with the excuse that anyone wanting a firearm can just buy it at the next street corner is what's really dodgy.

the proper controls exist. perhaps you missed that in an earlier post of mine:

•Individuals who have ever been involuntarily committed to a mental institution or have been legally declared mentally incompetent

it sounds to me like the real problem is with florida's reporting of things like this and their keeping of an up to date data system.

Nice try. The firearms were acquired in North Carolina. Besides, I'd say that there are plenty of unstable folks out there that haven't been committed to a mental institution and haven't been declared mentally incompetent but who still are in no mental state of being a responsible gun owner.

so florida and north carolina don't talk to each other?

and according to you, he was insane, so he should have been listed by his home state.

A Tampa police officer was killed this week - shot to death by an insane man who legally obtained quite an arsenal of firearms. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with that picture?

[Danno 1,228]

Maybe not but maybe they shouldn't be able to legally acquire firearms.

that's above my pay grade to make that decision.

Well, a fine officer of the Tampa Police Department would be alive today if whack jobs like his killer wouldn't have ready access to firearms.

you do know that one can obtain guns quite easily if they know the right people on the street, don't you? surely you don't think the average gang banger legally obtains their heat from a gun dealer, do you? to use this officer's death to try to indict the gun purchase system with the checks imposed by the brady bill is just a bit dodgy.

Well, had he obtained said firearms illegally, then you may have a point but he didn't. And to try to justify the lack of proper controls in the gun trading business with the excuse that anyone wanting a firearm can just buy it at the next street corner is what's really dodgy.

the proper controls exist. perhaps you missed that in an earlier post of mine:

•Individuals who have ever been involuntarily committed to a mental institution or have been legally declared mentally incompetent

it sounds to me like the real problem is with florida's reporting of things like this and their keeping of an up to date data system.

Nice try. The firearms were acquired in North Carolina. Besides, I'd say that there are plenty of unstable folks out there that haven't been committed to a mental institution and haven't been declared mentally incompetent but who still are in no mental state of being a responsible gun owner.

I think the first step is to get the metal health-chek done at DMV first, hell if all the carnage done daily on the roads by crazy drives and senile Grandma's is not important, how is this occasional "nut with a gun" story a big deal?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Maybe not but maybe they shouldn't be able to legally acquire firearms.

that's above my pay grade to make that decision.

Well, a fine officer of the Tampa Police Department would be alive today if whack jobs like his killer wouldn't have ready access to firearms.

you do know that one can obtain guns quite easily if they know the right people on the street, don't you? surely you don't think the average gang banger legally obtains their heat from a gun dealer, do you? to use this officer's death to try to indict the gun purchase system with the checks imposed by the brady bill is just a bit dodgy.

Well, had he obtained said firearms illegally, then you may have a point but he didn't. And to try to justify the lack of proper controls in the gun trading business with the excuse that anyone wanting a firearm can just buy it at the next street corner is what's really dodgy.

the proper controls exist. perhaps you missed that in an earlier post of mine:

•Individuals who have ever been involuntarily committed to a mental institution or have been legally declared mentally incompetent

it sounds to me like the real problem is with florida's reporting of things like this and their keeping of an up to date data system.

Nice try. The firearms were acquired in North Carolina. Besides, I'd say that there are plenty of unstable folks out there that haven't been committed to a mental institution and haven't been declared mentally incompetent but who still are in no mental state of being a responsible gun owner.

so florida and north carolina don't talk to each other?

and according to you, he was insane, so he should have been listed by his home state.

A Tampa police officer was killed this week - shot to death by an insane man who legally obtained quite an arsenal of firearms. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with that picture?

Bipolar and depressed - diagnosed and put on medication which he apparently didn't always take. He was from North Carolina and has lived here with an uncle of his for awhile. When I moved to FL, I wasn't asked at any stage in the process whether or not I had acquired guns in the state I came from. Nor was I asked in Ohio when I moved there from Tennessee. I suspect that this is the routine experience of people moving across state lines.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'd say that there are plenty of unstable folks out there that haven't been committed to a mental institution and haven't been declared mentally incompetent but who still are in no mental state of being a responsible gun owner.

I think the first step is to get the metal health-chek done at DMV first, hell if all the carnage done daily on the roads by crazy drives and senile Grandma's is not important, how is this occasional "nut with a gun" story a big deal?

Nice try at deflecting from the actual issue at hand.