N.J. shooting deaths draw focus to 'two universes' of gun culture

[Peikko 1,575]

Condoms, naturally.

Edited August 22, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who is trampling rights?

to achieve what you mentioned ....

To get rid of illegal guns?

I think the day to day reality of what its like to live in parts of Newark speak for themselves. The residents want guns off the streets.

the question remains .... what rights are YOU willing to trample for this goal?

Oh for God's sake Natty - lets not start this stupid BS. What the residents, law enforcement and the local authority wants to do there has ####### all to do with me. Feel free to do some reading on it if you're interested.

Who is trampling rights?

to achieve what you mentioned ....

To get rid of illegal guns?

I think the day to day reality of what its like to live in parts of Newark speak for themselves. The residents want guns off the streets.

In america there are choices...... remember? If you choose to live in a place thats out of control then move.

AJ already told you - people want to move, but for various reasons aren't able to do it.

Its called "the ghetto" for a reason, you know...

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Condoms, naturally.

So before you get raped youd givem a condom?

Who is trampling rights?

to achieve what you mentioned ....

To get rid of illegal guns?

I think the day to day reality of what its like to live in parts of Newark speak for themselves. The residents want guns off the streets.

the question remains .... what rights are YOU willing to trample for this goal?

Oh for God's sake Natty - lets not start this stupid BS. What the residents, law enforcement and the local authority wants to do there has ####### all to do with me. Feel free to do some reading on it if you're interested.

Who is trampling rights?

to achieve what you mentioned ....

To get rid of illegal guns?

I think the day to day reality of what its like to live in parts of Newark speak for themselves. The residents want guns off the streets.

In america there are choices...... remember? If you choose to live in a place thats out of control then move.

AJ already told you - people want to move, but for various reasons aren't able to do it.

Its called "the ghetto" for a reason, you know...

Various reasons? More like EXCUSES! Since when did the ghetto have locks on the gates?

Edited August 22, 2009 by ={Rogue}=

[luckytxn 2,264]

Owning guns is a right enshrined in the constitution. Strange how anytime the Socialists come to power it seems this right is threatened.

[natty bumppo 297]

Who is trampling rights?

to achieve what you mentioned ....

To get rid of illegal guns?

I think the day to day reality of what its like to live in parts of Newark speak for themselves. The residents want guns off the streets.

the question remains .... what rights are YOU willing to trample for this goal?

Oh for God's sake Natty - lets not start this stupid BS. What the residents, law enforcement and the local authority wants to do there has ####### all to do with me. Feel free to do some reading on it if you're interested..

what ... no solutions .. just airing it out again?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Various reasons? More like EXCUSES! Since when did the ghetto have locks on the gates?

I think you should get a pat on the head for that one, Marc.

There really is nothing I can say to that.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Various reasons? More like EXCUSES! Since when did the ghetto have locks on the gates?

I think you should get a pat on the head for that one, Marc.

There really is nothing I can say to that.

Your vagueness is sometimes overwhelming.

[MrsCat 6]

Anyone who buys that nonsense is buying into a very false security. Guns really don't give one any protection from government at all - the only way to effectively guard against the excesses of the political elite is to demand accountability from the elected (and not of the screeching fear mongering variety - conspiracy theory here, demonization of the ordinary moderates as socialists or facists there) and ensure continued strong engagement in the political process. The biggest danger to the American people isn't not having a gun, but political ignorance and apathy.

I could not agree more.

But the purpose is not whether owning gums will in fact overthrow a government. Its the actual exercise of the constitutional right that has the meaning. Gun ownership in its truest form is about political activism. And for the most part, people who do care truly about their second amendment rights are very politically active. So while owning a gun may not change the government at will, it does make an otherwise apolitical person care about government processes and engage.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who is trampling rights?

to achieve what you mentioned ....

To get rid of illegal guns?

I think the day to day reality of what its like to live in parts of Newark speak for themselves. The residents want guns off the streets.

the question remains .... what rights are YOU willing to trample for this goal?

Oh for God's sake Natty - lets not start this stupid BS. What the residents, law enforcement and the local authority wants to do there has ####### all to do with me. Feel free to do some reading on it if you're interested..

what ... no solutions .. just airing it out again?

I said that there are community, law enforcement and local government efforts in Newark to rid that city of illegal guns - that's a statement of fact, nothing more.

Either you're interested in it, or you aren't. If you want opinion - I suggest you do some reading on the views of the people living in that city, its rather more relevant to the issue than mine.

[natty bumppo 297]

Who is trampling rights?

to achieve what you mentioned ....

To get rid of illegal guns?

I think the day to day reality of what its like to live in parts of Newark speak for themselves. The residents want guns off the streets.

the question remains .... what rights are YOU willing to trample for this goal?

Oh for God's sake Natty - lets not start this stupid BS. What the residents, law enforcement and the local authority wants to do there has ####### all to do with me. Feel free to do some reading on it if you're interested..

what ... no solutions .. just airing it out again?

I said that there are community, law enforcement and local government efforts in Newark to rid that city of illegal guns - that's a statement of fact, nothing more.

Either you're interested in it, or you aren't. If you want opinion - I suggest you do some reading on the views of the people living in that city, its rather more relevant to the issue than mine.

you have no opinion? no stake in the sand? just lots of air time?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Piss off Natty, I'm not doing this with you again. Look it up for yourself, or don't. Its your call.

Again - either you're interested in what's going on in Newark (for the purposes of furthering discussion on the topic) or you're just fishing for another slanging match.

[Peikko 1,575]

Anyone who buys that nonsense is buying into a very false security. Guns really don't give one any protection from government at all - the only way to effectively guard against the excesses of the political elite is to demand accountability from the elected (and not of the screeching fear mongering variety - conspiracy theory here, demonization of the ordinary moderates as socialists or facists there) and ensure continued strong engagement in the political process. The biggest danger to the American people isn't not having a gun, but political ignorance and apathy.

I could not agree more.

But the purpose is not whether owning gums will in fact overthrow a government. Its the actual exercise of the constitutional right that has the meaning. Gun ownership in its truest form is about political activism. And for the most part, people who do care truly about their second amendment rights are very politically active. So while owning a gun may not change the government at will, it does make an otherwise apolitical person care about government processes and engage.

Engage in a meaningful way (concerned about all aspects of the political process) or merely engaging in the protection of the status quo re gun rights? Often to the detriment of those in society who have chosen not to put their trust in guns, but rather honour the social contract.

[MrsCat 6]

I don't think its possible for everyone to engage in every issue. I think most people engage in several or a few issues that most directly impact their lives. If more people were concerned about placing limits on gun ownership than it would be changed to suit the masses. However, I personally think most people have far higher concerns that they choose to engage politically in or not at all. To suggest that unless you take on all issues you're not politically active does not make much sense. Who can possibly engaged in multiple issues on a high level of abstraction and understanding and still carryout their daily basic living?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I don't think its possible for everyone to engage in every issue. I think most people engage in several or a few issues that most directly impact their lives. If more people were concerned about placing limits on gun ownership than it would be changed to suit the masses. However, I personally think most people have far higher concerns that they choose to engage politically in or not at all. To suggest that unless you take on all issues you're not politically active does not make much sense. Who can possibly engaged in multiple issues on a high level of abstraction and understanding and still carryout their daily basic living?

You understand your talking to someone that has been raised in a soceity of "the govament knows best" Right?

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't think its possible for everyone to engage in every issue. I think most people engage in several or a few issues that most directly impact their lives. If more people were concerned about placing limits on gun ownership than it would be changed to suit the masses. However, I personally think most people have far higher concerns that they choose to engage politically in or not at all. To suggest that unless you take on all issues you're not politically active does not make much sense. Who can possibly engaged in multiple issues on a high level of abstraction and understanding and still carryout their daily basic living?

I will rephrase, being a one issue pony does not really equal active political engagement.