Limbaugh tells caller who can't afford $6,000 to treat broken wrist: "Well, you shouldn't have broken your wrist"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Talk about conditioning, how did that come about, that there are people that believe their health is purely in their own hands? That's the difficulty with trying counter arguments in a nut shell on health care, or so it appears, this hard core of people who believe that if you get sick it's down to something you did or did not do. How totally sad.

Those people are far few and in between.

OK - so you said "most not "all" - I think we can prove very quickly that simply isn't the case.

How?

Already given you a crapload of examples. As has Hal.

that proves nothing, when you got proof I will be right here

Ah sticking the fingers in the ears and doing the "lalala" I see.

Brilliant.

oh did you give me proof and I didnt hear it because I had my fingers in my ear *pulls fingers out of ears* ok I am all ears show me the proof.

The matter of the fact is that I have given you examples too and unless we have some sort of statistics/proof we are just talking past each other and life's to short for that nonsense.

It should be obvious to most people that a person does not get a genetic disease from things they personally have done.

It should also be obvious that viruses strike regardless of behavioural choices

It should be similarly obvious that cancer and to a lesser extent, heart disease has as much to do with genetic predisposition than as it does to diet, whether or not a person smokes, and whether or not they drink more than the recommended units of alcohol per week.

[HAL 9000 96]

How is getting sick "an action"?

Blaming people for getting sick is more than a little silly.

Well you know... people have choices on what illnesses to fall victim to.

So are you going to ignore the fact that most of our health issues come from our own actions? And once again I said most not all

I'm going to have to go and check a few hallways over to see if your statement is factually true. As someone that actually works in biomedicine, I think I can blame most health conditions as genetic and environmental in origin vs assuming most health issues are a result of obesity, induced diabetes, and user-created actions. Notice I am not condemning you for thinking that heart disease is mostly caused by eating one too many steaks or that bones are broken by falling off a motorbike- since those are not the only or even most of the health concerns people seek treatment for.

Was he speeding on the that motorbike?

Theres smoking and drinking you have failed to address.

Lets face it most doctor visits are contributed to decisions we have made.

Colds, Flu, Hereditary Disease, slip/falls... yeah... I don't think you're accurate there.

Besides what are 10 year old alcoholic smokers doing in the doctor's office? So many of those!!

Once again I said most not all but I realize your going for funny here, good luck on that by the way.

You go to the hospital for a cold? Which reminds me, could you imagine if we socialized health care. People would go to the hospital every time they sneezed or had a spot on there skin.

Flu, try a flu shot.

Make up your mind- you clearly wrote doctor visits, not hospitals.

Like I said- I actually work in biomedicine. I don't really think most of the incoming patients to the hospital complex here come in for self-inflicted conditions.

[Peikko 1,575]

Talk about conditioning, how did that come about, that there are people that believe their health is purely in their own hands? That's the difficulty with trying counter arguments in a nut shell on health care, or so it appears, this hard core of people who believe that if you get sick it's down to something you did or did not do. How totally sad.

Those people are far few and in between.

OK - so you said "most not "all" - I think we can prove very quickly that simply isn't the case.

How?

Already given you a crapload of examples. As has Hal.

that proves nothing, when you got proof I will be right here

Ah sticking the fingers in the ears and doing the "lalala" I see.

Brilliant.

oh did you give me proof and I didnt hear it because I had my fingers in my ear *pulls fingers out of ears* ok I am all ears show me the proof.

The matter of the fact is that I have given you examples too and unless we have some sort of statistics/proof we are just talking past each other and life's to short for that nonsense.

It should be obvious to most people that a person does not get a genetic disease from things they personally have done.

It should also be obvious that viruses strike regardless of behavioural choices

It should be similarly obvious that cancer and to a lesser extent, heart disease has as much to do with genetic predisposition than as it does to diet, whether or not a person smokes, and whether or not they drink more than the recommended units of alcohol per week.

Which is why people continue to smoke. They know the roulette wheel is stacked against them, but they could just win the jackpot.

[HAL 9000 96]

Talk about conditioning, how did that come about, that there are people that believe their health is purely in their own hands? That's the difficulty with trying counter arguments in a nut shell on health care, or so it appears, this hard core of people who believe that if you get sick it's down to something you did or did not do. How totally sad.

Those people are far few and in between.

OK - so you said "most not "all" - I think we can prove very quickly that simply isn't the case.

How?

Already given you a crapload of examples. As has Hal.

that proves nothing, when you got proof I will be right here

You certainly want to make a case for personal-activity-driving disease. Prove your claim first, since its the one being debated now anyway. In the meantime, the majority of the medical profession will continue believing in genetics and other non-primate culpative mechanisms of disease as a majority causative force in human pathological states.

[Peikko 1,575]

*insert any 'bad behaviour'* into that phrase, it fits them all.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Suddenly I'm envisioning Gattaca-style health system run by Looking Up

[HAL 9000 96]

How is getting sick "an action"?

Blaming people for getting sick is more than a little silly.

Well you know... people have choices on what illnesses to fall victim to.

So are you going to ignore the fact that most of our health issues come from our own actions? And once again I said most not all

I'm going to have to go and check a few hallways over to see if your statement is factually true. As someone that actually works in biomedicine, I think I can blame most health conditions as genetic and environmental in origin vs assuming most health issues are a result of obesity, induced diabetes, and user-created actions. Notice I am not condemning you for thinking that heart disease is mostly caused by eating one too many steaks or that bones are broken by falling off a motorbike- since those are not the only or even most of the health concerns people seek treatment for.

Was he speeding on the that motorbike?

Theres smoking and drinking you have failed to address.

Lets face it most doctor visits are contributed to decisions we have made.

Colds, Flu, Hereditary Disease, slip/falls... yeah... I don't think you're accurate there.

Besides what are 10 year old alcoholic smokers doing in the doctor's office? So many of those!!

Once again I said most not all but I realize your going for funny here, good luck on that by the way.

You go to the hospital for a cold? Which reminds me, could you imagine if we socialized health care. People would go to the hospital every time they sneezed or had a spot on there skin.

Flu, try a flu shot.

Except that that simply does not happen, or at least it doesn't happen any more than it does under any other system.

Well many do skip out on most preventative care because it is not covered in many current private insurance plans or simply can't afford most of the costs involved on top of the premiums they already pay. When the sh!t hits the fan though, there is little choice but escalating it to the ER. Its a game of roulette many play.

[HAL 9000 96]

Talk about conditioning, how did that come about, that there are people that believe their health is purely in their own hands? That's the difficulty with trying counter arguments in a nut shell on health care, or so it appears, this hard core of people who believe that if you get sick it's down to something you did or did not do. How totally sad.

Those people are far few and in between.

OK - so you said "most not "all" - I think we can prove very quickly that simply isn't the case.

How?

Already given you a crapload of examples. As has Hal.

that proves nothing, when you got proof I will be right here

Ah sticking the fingers in the ears and doing the "lalala" I see.

Brilliant.

oh did you give me proof and I didnt hear it because I had my fingers in my ear *pulls fingers out of ears* ok I am all ears show me the proof.

The matter of the fact is that I have given you examples too and unless we have some sort of statistics/proof we are just talking past each other and life's to short for that nonsense.

It should be obvious to most people that a person does not get a genetic disease from things they personally have done.

It should also be obvious that viruses strike regardless of behavioural choices

It should be similarly obvious that cancer and to a lesser extent, heart disease has as much to do with genetic predisposition than as it does to diet, whether or not a person smokes, and whether or not they drink more than the recommended units of alcohol per week.

Which is why people continue to smoke. They know the roulette wheel is stacked against them, but they could just win the jackpot.

Well we can't expect many people to consider the risks involved many times. Looking up has a point that many, many, many a times health care is geared towards self-inflicted conditions... but it is not, in its entirety, constitutive of the majority of health care cases.

Many people are really stupid, true.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well many do skip out on most preventative care because it is not covered in many current private insurance plans or simply can't afford most of the costs involved on top of the premiums they already pay. When the sh!t hits the fan though, there is little choice but escalating it to the ER. Its a game of roulette many play.

Well its self-evident that the insurance industry isn't concerned with people's health - but they already have enough reasons for denying coverage through pre-existing condition, experimental treatments, medical necessicity etc etc.

I imagine it would be a goldrush if suddenly "moral hazard" was added to the list of considerations.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You go to the hospital for a cold? Which reminds me, could you imagine if we socialized health care. People would go to the hospital every time they sneezed or had a spot on there skin.

No they wouldn't. I've lived where there was was universal health care and the pattern you describe is clearly not one I've seen.

[Danno 1,228]

Look bottom line, the poor among us have the worst rates of illness and suffer the most from poor healthcare.... they incidently all have their healthcare managed under the existing gov't run Health care system for poor.

why would we all want the same poor results?

[HAL 9000 96]

Well many do skip out on most preventative care because it is not covered in many current private insurance plans or simply can't afford most of the costs involved on top of the premiums they already pay. When the sh!t hits the fan though, there is little choice but escalating it to the ER. Its a game of roulette many play.

Well its self-evident that the insurance industry isn't concerned with people's health - but they already have enough reasons for denying coverage through pre-existing condition, experimental treatments, medical necessicity etc etc.

I imagine it would be a goldrush if suddenly "moral hazard" was added to the list of considerations.

Just keep the guvmint's hands off my excellent healthcare!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Guano - Just remember that I never said I was against a public option, but I don't want it dictated by the feds. The Post-Office and Fire Departments have independence to run their respective locations how they see fit.

If independence is guaranteed, and they can guarantee that they are not going to set arbitrary price limitations, then I am ok with it. I also don't want tax payer money going into it. If its a public insurance agency, then it can get funded just the same way the other ones get funded. Only it doesn't necessarily need such a large profit margin since most of the overhead cost will be eliminated that way.

The Fire department isn't a federal program unless i am mistaken.

What's your solution to insuring those who cannot afford health insurance?

[_Simpson_ 250]

How is getting sick "an action"?

Blaming people for getting sick is more than a little silly.

Well you know... people have choices on what illnesses to fall victim to.

So are you going to ignore the fact that most of our health issues come from our own actions? And once again I said most not all

I'm going to have to go and check a few hallways over to see if your statement is factually true. As someone that actually works in biomedicine, I think I can blame most health conditions as genetic and environmental in origin vs assuming most health issues are a result of obesity, induced diabetes, and user-created actions. Notice I am not condemning you for thinking that heart disease is mostly caused by eating one too many steaks or that bones are broken by falling off a motorbike- since those are not the only or even most of the health concerns people seek treatment for.

Was he speeding on the that motorbike?

Theres smoking and drinking you have failed to address.

Lets face it most doctor visits are contributed to decisions we have made.

Colds, Flu, Hereditary Disease, slip/falls... yeah... I don't think you're accurate there.

Besides what are 10 year old alcoholic smokers doing in the doctor's office? So many of those!!

Once again I said most not all but I realize your going for funny here, good luck on that by the way.

You go to the hospital for a cold? Which reminds me, could you imagine if we socialized health care. People would go to the hospital every time they sneezed or had a spot on there skin.

Flu, try a flu shot.

Except that that simply does not happen, or at least it doesn't happen any more than it does under any other system.

Worry warts will be heading the hospitals in droves. Im exaggerating a little by saying everytimes they sneeze but my point I think is clear.

Except it does not happen that way in countries that already have universal health care. Are you suggesting that somehow American people are prone to hypochondria? What is your evidence for such a claim?

Human Nature, has nothing to do with being American. We will have to disagree because I do think its happening and neither of us have proof.

[HAL 9000 96]

Now we have an expert on human nature on board...