Senate's #2 Republican: No GOP Support for Reform

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The Dems were out-maneuvered by the minority party which played for time to get their propaganda machine up and running. Now that it is up and running, the Dems can't get control of the debate and can't get their message out effectively. They failed. Some measure will pass but it won't be the measure that's needed.

didn't the dems have the opportunity to get their message out first?

guess it's the other guys fault the dems didn't deliver ....

Where did I say it's the other guy's fault that the Dems did not deliver on health reform? It's their fault and their fault only. They have the majorities to act and they don't. They had the opportunity to lead the debate and set the tone and they failed. They chose instead to engage in this futile attempt at bi-partisanship - this was the biggest mistake they made. I said so many times over the past few months. No point in talking to the party that has only one goal - retain the status quo if for no other reason than to see Obama not deliver on this campaign pledge. The failure is solely on the Dems - no argument from me about that.

But Obama had no clear health care proposal when this whole process started and he was sincerely open to all possible solutions.

That's part of the problem.

Yep - something that should have been devised beforehand. Tony Blair tried policymaking by focus group - it was a disaster.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I'd like to see Democrats make a bill that just has one provision. Eliminate the pre-existing exclusion from all policies retroactively and going forward.

Just one provision. Nothing more. I'd love to see who votes against that.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Dems were out-maneuvered by the minority party which played for time to get their propaganda machine up and running. Now that it is up and running, the Dems can't get control of the debate and can't get their message out effectively. They failed. Some measure will pass but it won't be the measure that's needed.

didn't the dems have the opportunity to get their message out first?

guess it's the other guys fault the dems didn't deliver ....

Where did I say it's the other guy's fault that the Dems did not deliver on health reform? It's their fault and their fault only. They have the majorities to act and they don't. They had the opportunity to lead the debate and set the tone and they failed. They chose instead to engage in this futile attempt at bi-partisanship - this was the biggest mistake they made. I said so many times over the past few months. No point in talking to the party that has only one goal - retain the status quo if for no other reason than to see Obama not deliver on this campaign pledge. The failure is solely on the Dems - no argument from me about that.

But Obama had no clear health care proposal when this whole process started and he was sincerely open to all possible solutions.

That's part of the problem.

Yep - something that should have been devised beforehand. Tony Blair tried policymaking by focus group - it was a disaster.

Maybe so, but I don't find fault in the idea of inclusion.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Maybe so, but I don't find fault in the idea of inclusion.

Of course not, you're a hippie.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The Dems were out-maneuvered by the minority party which played for time to get their propaganda machine up and running. Now that it is up and running, the Dems can't get control of the debate and can't get their message out effectively. They failed. Some measure will pass but it won't be the measure that's needed.

didn't the dems have the opportunity to get their message out first?

guess it's the other guys fault the dems didn't deliver ....

Where did I say it's the other guy's fault that the Dems did not deliver on health reform? It's their fault and their fault only. They have the majorities to act and they don't. They had the opportunity to lead the debate and set the tone and they failed. They chose instead to engage in this futile attempt at bi-partisanship - this was the biggest mistake they made. I said so many times over the past few months. No point in talking to the party that has only one goal - retain the status quo if for no other reason than to see Obama not deliver on this campaign pledge. The failure is solely on the Dems - no argument from me about that.

But Obama had no clear health care proposal when this whole process started and he was sincerely open to all possible solutions.

That's part of the problem.

Yep - something that should have been devised beforehand. Tony Blair tried policymaking by focus group - it was a disaster.

Maybe so, but I don't find fault in the idea of inclusion.

Sure but if you don't set a strong direction in the first place you're inviting to have the whole thing torn every which way (as is happening now).

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'd like to see Democrats make a bill that just has one provision. Eliminate the pre-existing exclusion from all policies retroactively and going forward.

Just one provision. Nothing more. I'd love to see who votes against that.

Hmmm...interesting. I wonder if they could piecemeal overhauls to our health care system over several bills or in amendments to other bills?

[natty bumppo 297]

I'd like to see Democrats make a bill that just has one provision. Eliminate the pre-existing exclusion from all policies retroactively and going forward.

Just one provision. Nothing more. I'd love to see who votes against that.

Hmmm...interesting. I wonder if they could piecemeal overhauls to our health care system over several bills or in amendments to other bills?

it would take how many bills to meet aj's one request?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'd like to see Democrats make a bill that just has one provision. Eliminate the pre-existing exclusion from all policies retroactively and going forward.

Just one provision. Nothing more. I'd love to see who votes against that.

Hmmm...interesting. I wonder if they could piecemeal overhauls to our health care system over several bills or in amendments to other bills?

Let's not go that route. Seeing that there's apparently an unwritten rule that requires billions of dollars of pork to be inserted into every piece of legislation, this would be the most expensive approach to fix health care. Let's not do that.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Getting the bill through the Senate is not the issue. They have the 60 votes to prevent a fillibuster, and Reid is not beyond filling the tree to prevent any Republican amendments.

Bill, do you have a list of the 60 Senators who you think will vote 'yay' for a Reform Bill once it reaches the Senate? Because many Blue Dog Democrats have said they will not vote in favor of any bill that includes a public option.

"Blue Dogs" are more of a House issue, where Democrats, like Lorretta Sanchez (D-CAL), are elected from conservative districts. (That was B-1 Bob's district before, and considered a "safe" Republican seat). The Senators don't have that same pressure every two years to get relected, and are more likely to fall in lockstep behind Reid, plus the 2 or 3 moderate Republican votes Reid also has in the Senate. Dorgan is the only Senator that really has a chance of losing his seat next time up.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Mister_Bill

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Maybe so, but I don't find fault in the idea of inclusion.

Of course not, you're a hippie.

That's what happens when you don't belong to an organized party.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Maybe so, but I don't find fault in the idea of inclusion.

Of course not, you're a hippie.

That's what happens when you don't belong to an organized party.

The Republican Party is more cohesive than the Democratic Party? You're kidding yourself. Both parties make concessions to the different factions for cohesion, however, both parties have a platform which all members support more or less. You may be registered a Democrat, Bill, but if you're 90 percent against the DNC's platform, you aren't even on the same page with the rest of the Democrats. I could register tomorrow as a Republican and then we could both go on pretending to be something we aren't even remotely close to being.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Maybe so, but I don't find fault in the idea of inclusion.

Of course not, you're a hippie.

That's what happens when you don't belong to an organized party.

The Republican Party is more cohesive than the Democratic Party? You're kidding yourself. Both parties make concessions to the different factions for cohesion, however, both parties have a platform which all members support more or less. You may be registered a Democrat, Bill, but if you're 90 percent against the DNC's platform, you aren't even on the same page with the rest of the Democrats. I could register tomorrow as a Republican and then we could both go on pretending to be something we aren't even remotely close to being.

Where is the tolerance I expect from the Progressive wing of our party? You mean there is no room for us anymore?

You see this AJ? No wonder we can't get anything done!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Maybe so, but I don't find fault in the idea of inclusion.

Of course not, you're a hippie.

That's what happens when you don't belong to an organized party.

The Republican Party is more cohesive than the Democratic Party? You're kidding yourself. Both parties make concessions to the different factions for cohesion, however, both parties have a platform which all members support more or less. You may be registered a Democrat, Bill, but if you're 90 percent against the DNC's platform, you aren't even on the same page with the rest of the Democrats. I could register tomorrow as a Republican and then we could both go on pretending to be something we aren't even remotely close to being.

Where is the tolerance I expect from the Progressive wing of our party? You mean there is no room for us anymore?

You see this AJ? No wonder we can't get anything done!

I'll give you this analogy, Bill. It's like we (Dem. Party) are all packed in a bus. The leaders and majority have agreed that we're heading towards Spokane and you want to go to Cleveland. We say, "We're going to Spokane. Jump in if you want to join us." And your reply is, "But I want to go to Cleveland." Sorry, Bill, but this bus ain't going to Cleveland. Hop in and come with us to Spokane, or get off the bus.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Col. 'Bat' Guano

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Maybe so, but I don't find fault in the idea of inclusion.

Of course not, you're a hippie.

That's what happens when you don't belong to an organized party.

The Republican Party is more cohesive than the Democratic Party? You're kidding yourself. Both parties make concessions to the different factions for cohesion, however, both parties have a platform which all members support more or less. You may be registered a Democrat, Bill, but if you're 90 percent against the DNC's platform, you aren't even on the same page with the rest of the Democrats. I could register tomorrow as a Republican and then we could both go on pretending to be something we aren't even remotely close to being.

Where is the tolerance I expect from the Progressive wing of our party? You mean there is no room for us anymore?

You see this AJ? No wonder we can't get anything done!

I'll give you this analogy, Bill. It's like we (Dem. Party) are all packed in a bus. The leaders and majority have agreed that we're heading towards Spokane and you want to go to Cleveland. We say, "We're going to Spokane. Jump in if you want to join us." And your reply is, "But I want to go to Cleveland." Sorry, Bill, but this bus ain't going to Cleveland. Hop in and come with us to Spokane, or get off the bus.

Is Spokane on the way to Cleveland?

ETA: (I am more inline with the Progressives on healthcare, than you are Steve. )

Edited August 18, 2009 by Mister_Bill