Worried about K-1 Visa App for Vietnam

[3AD 0]

I posted this in the K1 forum, but think folks here might be familiar with HCMC. OK, here's my story, and why I'm worried. Anybody who can give me some candid insight, I'd appreciate it.

Bad news:

1. I'm previously married to non-U.S. citizen. I applied for and received legal permanent residency for my ex-wife 10 years ago. She never became a citizen. We since divorced and she left the U.S. with our child. Of course, I explained all of this in my application very clearly. For privacy reasons, I don't want to divulge my ex-wife's home country, but it's a rich country (where visas are easily obtained, no fraud, etc.)

2. There are 15 years difference between me and my fiance in Vietnam. I'm 32. She is 17 at time of filing, so I submitted notarized parental consent letter so that we can "legally marry" at time of filing (which meets obligations in the state we will marry), although it's unlikely she will get a visa within 90 days of her 18th birthday.

3. Although separated for over one year at the time, I was still finalizing my divorce when I proposed to my fiance. Everything was final about two months before submitting I-129F.

4. I'm a grad student (i.e. below poverty line income) and will need to use a co-sponsor for affidavit of support.

Good news:

1. I met my fiance while living/working in Vietnam. I worked for a major Fortune 500 firm. I have business cards, pictures, etc., of me working at my company, and a letter (with letterhead) from my manager verifying my employment and timeframes. In other words, nobody "introduced" us and no "mail order" internet/websites, etc. I just met her while living and working there, found out she spoke great English and we hit it off. I submitted this "work evidence" with my app -- think that's going overboard?

2. I've spent over 6 months with her, cumulatively, over three different trips (two of which were work-related). We had a long "courting" period before I proposed.

3. We have extensive phone, chat, SMS and letter records. Also lots of great photos (with indications of date in background in some), plane ticket stubs, engagement ring receipt, etc. We'll have an official engagement ceremony (aka "dam hoi", with my parents attending) before her interview at embassy (assuming I make it past TSC/NVC).

4. I'm not "Viet Kieu" (overseas Vietnamese), but Caucasian American. I know there can be more scrutiny for overseas Vietnamese returning to marry (due to higher potential for fraud, I guess?) At least that's what my Vietnamese friends have told me. They all say: "You've got nothing to worry about" ... but I don't know.

I'm afraid because I will definitely be with her one way or another. So if we fail the K1 app, I'll ditch grad school and move there, bringing a ton of student loan debt with me (and knowing my education won't mean the same pay on the VN job market). If they turn us down because of all my complications, that's what I'll have to do but I'm trying to figure out a different angle if possible. I'm afraid they will think I'm an "immigration factory," since this is the second person for whom I will be applying. Or in the event we're denied, would getting married and doing a K3 make a difference?

HCMC is tough, and that's also why I'm afraid.

Thanks for any help ... and for being honest.

3AD

[Vietnam 0]

I don't think anything you've said so far is really that irregular. People get co-sponsors to bring over their Vietnamese fiance's regularly. We did have a member "Top-Gorrilla" who had previous marriages and divorces with Asian women and he had a pretty large age gap also as I recall. The consulate did make him prove his former wive's left the country before issuing his visa, but he was only held up for 1 extra month. The only thing you've said that I have'nt heard of before is the engagement to a 17 year old, but in Vietnam the legal age is 16 so why that would be an issue I don't know.

[3AD 0]

I don't think anything you've said so far is really that irregular.

Thanks for this advice Vietnam, and I contacted "Top Gorilla" and got great advice.

I'm replying to bump this back up the list. A lot of people read this, but not much feedback. I realize it's very unique. But maybe some people have some insight who've gone through HCMC. It sounds like I can almost guarantee a delay from what I've read. And I'm preparing a lot of documentation for her to take to the interview just in case.

Thanks,

3AD

[wait4ever 0]

I seem to recall an old post here on VJ, where HCMC was asking for the birth certificates of the ex-wifes's parents!, or some totally crazy thing like that. Anyone remember that? I've seen posts where they ask for some pretty crazy information concerning ex-spouses.

[Bruce and Han 0]

I seem to recall an old post here on VJ, where HCMC was asking for the birth certificates of the ex-wifes's parents!, or some totally crazy thing like that. Anyone remember that? I've seen posts where they ask for some pretty crazy information concerning ex-spouses.

As I recall, someone posted that they asked for the Ex-spouses current address. I am sure their have been some pretty crazy requests.

[scorpio232 0]

Just marry her in her country... Do the K-3... you would have a better chance...

[3AD 0]

Just marry her in her country... Do the K-3... you would have a better chance...

I guess not a bad idea, but I've already filed K1. Can you file a K3 while you have a pending K1 and somehow contact USCIS and/or Consulate to cancel K1?

Besides, I'd much rather deal with the U.S. government through the process instead of VN government. I've lived and worked in Vietnam. Going through their process, I bet ya they will hit me up for a fair amount of money somewhere along the way. :-)

3AD

[top-gorilla 0]

I don't really recall my thoughts to you, but you are welcome to email me again, I have somewhat organized my info and it runs on way too much for a posting. But mostly it is about the search, not about the visa process. I help some guys from time to time with advice on the search, and individually manage the search for a gentleman with more resources than time. I have made lots of the mistakes, and been down a lot of roads on this. The girl I married is almost perfection, I finally learned what I needed to at the time. They do keep moving the goal posts, and I am glad I am not doing a visa at this time, I feel that institutionally they are trying to put an end to the deal. I think this marriage broker law thing is a reflection of average peoples (especially American womens) distaste for men seeking women outside of our country, especially very sweet, younger women. I feel these Vietnamese ladies are almost from another planet, certainly a culture very different from ours. I think it is a very great honor and privilege to have the chance to marry a woman like that. But that is kind of a separate subject. I don't recall you stating all that detail to me in an email, but having read it here, I would say you are in for a pretty good run for your money, as we all are. If you are not organized, prepared, proactive, patient, and willing to do whatever it takes, you have a good chance of failure. Again, not because you are doing anything particularly wrong, you just need to do everything almost perfectly to get the stupid thing to work. You can miss one stupid field in one stupid form, and they have you. They can completely screw up whatever they want, and tough, that is their divine right. Having said all that, the one thing I think you should especially research and prepare for is the financial thing. If you don't qualify there, you have to have special dispensation from the visa gods, so get your act together in that regard. Be sure and give all 4 names in your paperwork, she has 2 middle names, right? 4 names total? Leave one out and you will be delayed. You will probably be delayed no matter how hard you try, they gotta have their pound of flesh out of you.

[My Le 0]

Besides, I'd much rather deal with the U.S. government through the process instead of VN government. I've lived and worked in Vietnam. Going through their process, I bet ya they will hit me up for a fair amount of money somewhere along the way. :-)

3AD

If so, I'd like to suggest an alternative: go to Bangkok,Thailand to register your marriage. We went there October last year and did that. It was easy, simple, fast, and affordable.

How?

In the beginning, we learned from friends that the US Embassy in Thailand could assist their citizens with the processing of marriage registration in Thailand and the US government "recognizes the validity of such a marriage". But we didn't know exactly how.

So in a trip for fun in Thailand, we went to see them. Before going, I went to the website of the US Embassy, Thailand then called them for info. I was told that just to stop by the embassy, at the Service for US Citizens Unit to file some papers as they required, then get further instructions. In my case, as I was divorced, I had to file 2 affidavits and paid 50 bucks to get them. The affidavits were to show that I was legitimately OK to get married in Thailand. For single, they required to file only 1affidavit and the fee was only 30 bucks. Then they told us where to go and what to do next.

I had to carry my passport and the divorce decree when I came so they could let me in and process the paperwork for me. It took 15 minutes to have this task done and the filing itself was as easy as filing a credit card application.

Then we found out more from the Thai translation service office (the one among the bunch that was recommended by the embassy to work with, we chose this one due to its closeness to the US facility, just almost across the street from it) that the required filing as described above at the US Embasssy was just for the part of the US citizen. For the part of the Vietnamese citizen, my fiancee then, the Thai government required that she needed to show that she was legitimately OK to get married in Thailand too. So she had to obtain from her local police office where she permanently resided in Vietnam what they called Verification of Marriage Status (Giay Chung Nhan Tinh Trang Hon Nhan), its exact form was the form to be used in foreign countries, then have this completed form officially translated into English - for this task we had it done at one of the Public Notarization Offices (Phong Cong Chung) in Saigon, where they did translation too - near her place of residence in An Giang there was also such an office, but we knew that they didn't do a good job, so we let it done in Saigon - then have this certified by the Foreign Affairs Department (So Ngoai Vu) located in between Diamond Plaza and the Unification Palace, then finally have this certified/legalized by the Thai Consulate General on Tran quoc Thao Street, District 1. Each of these processes took about 1 to 2 days, and the fee was not a lot: about 60,000 VND for the translation, 15,000 VND for the certification at So Ngoai Vu, please note here that she had to come by herself to do this, if not, there would be more paperwork to be done and probably a little more fee, and 15 US dollars at the Thai Consulate.

Then after getting all the papers needed for her, we made another trip to Bangkok. Here we let the translation office take care the rest after giving them our passports to make copies, my 2 affidavits, her certified Verification of Marriage Status. Then what they did was to translate those papers into Thai, to take us to the local civil government office to witness, interprete, and register our marriage, to obtain immediately after that the certificate of marriage in Thai for us, then back to their office to translate it into English, and finally to get it certified by the Thai Foreign Affairs to be ready to use. The fee was affordable, about a few hundred US dollars, how much exactly I cannot recall at the moment.

It took only 3 business days to finish. Another couple followed our step. Learning from our experience, they got all the papers ready before going, so they needed to make only one trip to finish everything. It took them only 2 business days in Bangkok. I didn't ask them how they could make that fast.

Important note about names: the way a Vietnamese name put on a Vietnamese document (passport, certificate of marriage, verification of marriage status,...) is not of American English syntax . Therefore, when you work with Thai translation service people whose English writing is similar to us, you have to point this difference out to them and make sure that they know which name on Vietnamese document is last or middle or first, so they could put it correctly on the Thai certificate of marriage and its English translation, on which the name writing goes by first, middle, then last name with no punctuation mark in between. Then it's best to check with them the name shown on your American documents too to make sure everything is right so nothing will have to be redone later on.

Disclaimer: I'm just a layman. Before doing anything you need to check with proper authorities, sources....

[dalegg 143]

Besides, I'd much rather deal with the U.S. government through the process instead of VN government. I've lived and worked in Vietnam. Going through their process, I bet ya they will hit me up for a fair amount of money somewhere along the way. :-)

3AD

If so, I'd like to suggest an alternative: go to Bangkok,Thailand to register your marriage. We went there October last year and did that. It was easy, simple, fast, and affordable.

How?

In the beginning, we learned from friends that the US Embassy in Thailand could assist their citizens with the processing of marriage registration in Thailand and the US government "recognizes the validity of such a marriage". But we didn't know exactly how.

So in a trip for fun in Thailand, we went to see them. Before going, I went to the website of the US Embassy, Thailand then called them for info. I was told that just to stop by the embassy, at the Service for US Citizens Unit to file some papers as they required, then get further instructions. In my case, as I was divorced, I had to file 2 affidavits and paid 50 bucks to get them. The affidavits were to show that I was legitimately OK to get married in Thailand. For single, they required to file only 1affidavit and the fee was only 30 bucks. Then they told us where to go and what to do next.

I had to carry my passport and the divorce decree when I came so they could let me in and process the paperwork for me. It took 15 minutes to have this task done and the filing itself was as easy as filing a credit card application.

Then we found out more from the Thai translation service office (the one among the bunch that was recommended by the embassy to work with, we chose this one due to its closeness to the US facility, just almost across the street from it) that the required filing as described above at the US Embasssy was just for the part of the US citizen. For the part of the Vietnamese citizen, my fiancee then, the Thai government required that she needed to show that she was legitimately OK to get married in Thailand too. So she had to obtain from her local police office where she permanently resided in Vietnam what they called Verification of Marriage Status (Giay Chung Nhan Tinh Trang Hon Nhan), its exact form was the form to be used in foreign countries, then have this completed form officially translated into English - for this task we had it done at one of the Public Notarization Offices (Phong Cong Chung) in Saigon, where they did translation too - near her place of residence in An Giang there was also such an office, but we knew that they didn't do a good job, so we let it done in Saigon - then have this certified by the Foreign Affairs Department (So Ngoai Vu) located in between Diamond Plaza and the Unification Palace, then finally have this certified/legalized by the Thai Consulate General on Tran quoc Thao Street, District 1. Each of these processes took about 1 to 2 days, and the fee was not a lot: about 60,000 VND for the translation, 15,000 VND for the certification at So Ngoai Vu, please note here that she had to come by herself to do this, if not, there would be more paperwork to be done and probably a little more fee, and 15 US dollars at the Thai Consulate.

Then after getting all the papers needed for her, we made another trip to Bangkok. Here we let the translation office take care the rest after giving them our passports to make copies, my 2 affidavits, her certified Verification of Marriage Status. Then what they did was to translate those papers into Thai, to take us to the local civil government office to witness, interprete, and register our marriage, to obtain immediately after that the certificate of marriage in Thai for us, then back to their office to translate it into English, and finally to get it certified by the Thai Foreign Affairs to be ready to use. The fee was affordable, about a few hundred US dollars, how much exactly I cannot recall at the moment.

It took only 3 business days to finish. Another couple followed our step. Learning from our experience, they got all the papers ready before going, so they needed to make only one trip to finish everything. It took them only 2 business days in Bangkok. I didn't ask them how they could make that fast.

Important note about names: the way a Vietnamese name put on a Vietnamese document (passport, certificate of marriage, verification of marriage status,...) is not of American English syntax . Therefore, when you work with Thai translation service people whose English writing is similar to us, you have to point this difference out to them and make sure that they know which name on Vietnamese document is last or middle or first, so they could put it correctly on the Thai certificate of marriage and its English translation, on which the name writing goes by first, middle, then last name with no punctuation mark in between. Then it's best to check with them the name shown on your American documents too to make sure everything is right so nothing will have to be redone later on.

Disclaimer: I'm just a layman. Before doing anything you need to check with proper authorities, sources....

So, just so I clear on this. You were actually married in Vietnam, but got a K3 or IR1 visa from Thailand? Is your wife in the US now? It's good to hear from you by the way. It's been a long time.

[Matt_Stevens 5]

My Le, this is very interesting, but can you elaborate? Same questions dalegg asked.

[dalegg 143]

My Le, this is very interesting, but can you elaborate? Same questions dalegg asked.

I went back through and I think I read it wrong. It appears they actually got married in Thailand. She brought her proof of single status from Vietnam and he brought his divorce decree. From what I gather, Thailand actually recongized the marriage of 2 foreigners.

[My Le 0]

QUOTE(Matt_Stevens @ Mar 20 2006, 07:12 PM)

My Le, this is very interesting, but can you elaborate? Same questions dalegg asked.

I went back through and I think I read it wrong. It appears they actually got married in Thailand. She brought her proof of single status from Vietnam and he brought his divorce decree. From what I gather, Thailand actually recongized the marriage of 2 foreigners.

Yes, you're right now, dalegg,

The Thai government's policy is to let people of any nationality to register their marriage in Thailand if they wish as long as their marriage is legitimate (monogamy based of course). Which means the couple has to be single at the time they want to get married and they have to show that by papers.

US citizens will be assisted by the US Embassy there to get the paper showing they are single in 15 minutes as I described. And that is the only way to get that paper or not I don't know. But the Thai government wants to see that kind of paper. That's a must for the part of the US citizens. And I was very happy with that policy as well as with the service from the US Embassy there.

Then the procedure is fast and simple: not a lot of things to do and get the certificate (the final English version that everybody can understand, and perfectly legal to be used at everywhere, even [b]the US government recognizes the validity of it[/b] as I said), in 2 to 3 business days. So we didn't have to get the certificate in VN (which is very complicated, time-consuming, and vulnerable to bribery) to petition.

Now about my wife at the time we were there the first time. We did come to see the Vietnamese Embassy in Bangkok in hope they would issue her a paper like the one I got from the US Embassy because we thought how easy it was to get. But here they couldn't do so due to their policy. They wanted us to go back to VN to get it, then they shouted at us, telling us not to ask too many questions.

[3AD 0]

They wanted us to go back to VN to get it, then they shouted at us, telling us not to ask too many questions.

Typical Vietnamese "person in authority" tactics.

3AD

[My Le 0]

.....Is your wife in the US now? It's good to hear from you by the way. It's been a long time.

(dalegg)

No, she's still in VN as after getting married in Thailand in October, we just sent our petition for K-3 in November, and they received it in Dec/05 (NOA1). Whenever possible, I will make completely my timeline and post it here.

Yes, it's been a long time. There were nothing new for my case, so I was not active on this forum. Anyway, I'm coming back. Visiting VJ is always helpful.

Thanks for your concern.

Edited March 21, 2006 by My Le