The Swiss Menace

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Have you ever belonged to a union, Bill?

Have you ever swung a hammer, Steve?

Come on, Bill. Every time I ask you a question you do this? Just answer my question, please.

I learn from you, Steve-san.

Good grief, Bill. It's not an entrapment. But it's apparent that you either have never worked under a union, or least not within the last couple of decades.

You have found out my little secret. Please do not tell the others.

But remember, your secret is always safe with me.

Although you may not agree with the concept of unions and that is your rightful opinion, don't mistake that for actually experiencing working under a union.

That said, I don't think unions are the answer to our health care issues, but they deserve credit for why many workers in this country have employee sponsored health care. I have someone very close to me who recently found out he has a congenital heart defect and he has no health insurance. How can I not be affected by my personal experiences when it comes to such issues? There are way too many Americans who simply cannot afford adequate health care and we either shrug our shoulders and say to them, "That's how the cookie crumbles," or we include them into our insurance pool since technically they are (through emergency services). Just like the person I know with the heart defect. If his heart starts racing and he is short of breath, all he can do is dial 911. That cost will be factored into our premiums. The status quo is pure insanity.

I have worked the skilled trades most of my life, and it's an industry that you can not avoid contact with unions, and union workers. I can only tell you what I have been told: There is a high level of disatisfaction within the unions, especially as more and more control has been taken away from the locals by the national organizations. They see their pensions being robbed, and their dues being used for non-union activities. The healthcare is a plus, however, even that coverage has diminished, with higher member contributions, deductibles and copays, and caps on benefits. The unions are no longer recruiting and training as they once did, and political activism has ruined them. That is my personal perspective, and the perspective of my union colleages.

But, the biggest complaint of all, the unions no longer actively solicit work for their members, and the locals no longer represent their members in collective bargaining, but they still want that due money.

[Scott & Lai 12]

Sounds interesting. What is most important, IMO, is getting everyone covered without any exclusions for any reason.

As long as there are no premium subsidies (which can only be funded by forced taxation of a discontented population) or any caps on premiums (which would be like enslaving insurance executives, what would Abe Lincoln say?).

Employer mandates are the only alternative I can think of.

And many employers will have to either freeze/cut wages, or worse, let employees go. The cost for insurance has to come from somewhere, and few employers, especially those in small businesses, have infinite resources to draw on. The insurance I now have through my employer is rather crappy; it is critical care insurance, and has a $3,000 per year deductable. He had offered better insurance before I was hired, but due to increasing costs, had to go with a cheaper alternative. And, as it is, we didn't get raises this year due to the economy.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Sounds interesting. What is most important, IMO, is getting everyone covered without any exclusions for any reason.

As long as there are no premium subsidies (which can only be funded by forced taxation of a discontented population) or any caps on premiums (which would be like enslaving insurance executives, what would Abe Lincoln say?).

Employer mandates are the only alternative I can think of.

And many employers will have to either freeze/cut wages, or worse, let employees go. The cost for insurance has to come from somewhere, and few employers, especially those in small businesses, have infinite resources to draw on. The insurance I now have through my employer is rather crappy; it is critical care insurance, and has a $3,000 per year deductable. He had offered better insurance before I was hired, but due to increasing costs, had to go with a cheaper alternative. And, as it is, we didn't get raises this year due to the economy.

It's a matter of convincing individuals and businesses alike that they are already paying for the uninsured through the ever increasing costs of health insurance, however, by increasing the pool of those insured, those premiums would go down for everyone. Each year that we continue down this path, more businesses will be forced to stop insuring their employees.

One thing I'd like to know from someone like Bill, who has touted that he can buy insurance for himself and his wife fairly cheaply - if it were that easy and low cost to purchase health insurance for individuals why don't employers just get completely out of the business of sponsoring their employee's health insurance? Why don't employers tell their employees, "Look, you can find cheaper insurance by shopping around individually, than anything we can offer, so we'll increase your salary so you can buy it on your own?"

Edited August 18, 2009 by Col. 'Bat' Guano

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Sounds interesting. What is most important, IMO, is getting everyone covered without any exclusions for any reason.

As long as there are no premium subsidies (which can only be funded by forced taxation of a discontented population) or any caps on premiums (which would be like enslaving insurance executives, what would Abe Lincoln say?).

Employer mandates are the only alternative I can think of.

And many employers will have to either freeze/cut wages, or worse, let employees go. The cost for insurance has to come from somewhere, and few employers, especially those in small businesses, have infinite resources to draw on. The insurance I now have through my employer is rather crappy; it is critical care insurance, and has a $3,000 per year deductable. He had offered better insurance before I was hired, but due to increasing costs, had to go with a cheaper alternative. And, as it is, we didn't get raises this year due to the economy.

It's a matter of convincing individuals and businesses alike that they are already paying for the uninsured through the ever increasing costs of health insurance, however, by increasing the pool of those insured, those premiums would go down for everyone. Each year that we continue down this path, more businesses will be forced to stop insuring their employees.

One thing I'd like to know from someone like Bill, who has touted that he can buy insurance for himself and his wife fairly cheaply - if it were that easy and low cost to purchase health insurance for individuals why don't employers just get completely out of the business of sponsoring their employee's health insurance? Why don't employers tell their employees, "Look, you can find cheaper insurance by shopping around individually, than anything we can offer, so we'll increase your salary so you can buy it on your own?"

I don't know where you got that idea. I am self employed. so have to buy my own, until I can get on my wife's policy through her work. My insurance is based on my age, and since I am over half a century old, my insurance is expensive, and getting more so. But for somebody have my age, they can cover themselves and their family for close to what I pay on my own.

Insurance pools are a good deal for older citizens like me, but they suck for the younger folks, who can get a better deal on their own, if they want insurance at all. Additionally, the policy that you get through your employer is more comprehensive by law, it has to meet certain state and federal minimum benefits.

[Peikko 1,575]

Isn't that the point though Bill? The idea of sharing the risk among a larger pool benefits all in the long run. While one is at low risk when young, naturally one is going to be at high risk when one is old. If one spreads the cost throughout life by paying more than one ought while young and less than one ought while old health care could be affordable and good but with the attitudes displayed on VJ OT, not in this lifetime, sadly.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Isn't that the point though Bill? The idea of sharing the risk among a larger pool benefits all in the long run. While one is at low risk when young, naturally one is going to be at high risk when one is old. If one spreads the cost throughout life by paying more than one ought while young and less than one ought while old health care could be affordable and good but with the attitudes displayed on VJ OT, not in this lifetime, sadly.

I was young once. I never expected to get to my age. If I known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.

[Peikko 1,575]

Isn't that the point though Bill? The idea of sharing the risk among a larger pool benefits all in the long run. While one is at low risk when young, naturally one is going to be at high risk when one is old. If one spreads the cost throughout life by paying more than one ought while young and less than one ought while old health care could be affordable and good but with the attitudes displayed on VJ OT, not in this lifetime, sadly.

I was young once. I never expected to get to my age. If I known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.

Most people think they are going to live forever when they are young

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Isn't that the point though Bill? The idea of sharing the risk among a larger pool benefits all in the long run. While one is at low risk when young, naturally one is going to be at high risk when one is old. If one spreads the cost throughout life by paying more than one ought while young and less than one ought while old health care could be affordable and good but with the attitudes displayed on VJ OT, not in this lifetime, sadly.

Well said.

[Peikko 1,575]

Actually, it's interesting this whole question of how to convince a young person that the decisions they make now can impact their later life. I have a 10 year old who I am trying to teach this to. It's not a one day conversation

Edited August 18, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

It's not a one day conversation

That's because you don't use books on tapes!

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Isn't that the point though Bill? The idea of sharing the risk among a larger pool benefits all in the long run. While one is at low risk when young, naturally one is going to be at high risk when one is old. If one spreads the cost throughout life by paying more than one ought while young and less than one ought while old health care could be affordable and good but with the attitudes displayed on VJ OT, not in this lifetime, sadly.

I was young once. I never expected to get to my age. If I known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.

Most people think they are going to live forever when they are young

I was a cold war baby. We were expecting them to drop the bomb anytime, at least long before we got to old age. You know, live hard, drive fast, and leave a pretty corpse.

ETA: On the Beach was required reading in High School. I wonder if that had anything to do with it.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Mister_Bill

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Isn't that the point though Bill? The idea of sharing the risk among a larger pool benefits all in the long run. While one is at low risk when young, naturally one is going to be at high risk when one is old. If one spreads the cost throughout life by paying more than one ought while young and less than one ought while old health care could be affordable and good but with the attitudes displayed on VJ OT, not in this lifetime, sadly.

I was young once. I never expected to get to my age. If I known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.

Most people think they are going to live forever when they are young

I was a cold war baby. We were expecting them to drop the bomb anytime, at least long before we got to old age. You know, live hard, drive fast, and leave a pretty corpse.

...now all that is left is a relic.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Isn't that the point though Bill? The idea of sharing the risk among a larger pool benefits all in the long run. While one is at low risk when young, naturally one is going to be at high risk when one is old. If one spreads the cost throughout life by paying more than one ought while young and less than one ought while old health care could be affordable and good but with the attitudes displayed on VJ OT, not in this lifetime, sadly.

I was young once. I never expected to get to my age. If I known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.

Most people think they are going to live forever when they are young

I was a cold war baby. We were expecting them to drop the bomb anytime, at least long before we got to old age. You know, live hard, drive fast, and leave a pretty corpse.

...now all that is left is a relic.

It's true. I am just a shadow of my former self. I can't live up to the legend anymore. So sad.