Canadian Medical Association: Canadian health care system is imploding, is not sustainable

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ah more pointless ####### for tat.

I'd point out again (as others have innumerable times) that the bureaucratic red tape in the US healthcare system is several orders of magnitude greater than that of government run systems in other countries - but I expect it will go unanswered again.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Private Pike

[rebeccajo 14]

Ah more pointless ####### for tat.

I'd point out again (as others have innumerable times) that the bureaucratic red tape in the US healthcare system is several orders of magnitude greater than that of government run systems in other countries - but I expect it will go unanswered again.

I spend huge blocks of my working time, every day, phoning insurance companies just to FIND OUT what kind of coverage and benefits are covered for our clients. A 'good' call is less than 10 minutes - I have held for as long as 33 minutes to complete a call.

And that's just the time devoted to uncovering what the company will (or won't) pay. Other staff members do the billing and fight for the claims.

And for those of you defending this uniquely American way of providing health care, you might find it interesting that many of the large insurance companies have outsourced their call centers abroad. I frequently speak to phone representatives for Anthem Blue Cross in Argentina.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I actually have no problems with doctors being fairly reimbursed for their services nor will you find any Canadian who feels differently. It isn't the doctors, however, who are getting the bulk of the money in the US - it is the middleman - the insurance companies. Doctors in countries such as Germany, Canada, France, England, Australia still earn a good income and also have to pay off their educational debts - which they do. Their overhead is often less than in the US as well - don't have to hire all of those people to deal with all of those insurance companies - so they have room for even greater profit.

Yeah I guess we will not have to hire the same people and even more for the cumbersome bureaucracy that a federal would require. Of course the feds will just write checks and not need any accounting so we are all good.

Dose of reality or is it too early for that?

Dr. Diane Normandin learned that the hard way.

A graduate of Montreal's McGill University, Normandin moved to Clearwater in 1994 because she thought U.S. doctors had more freedom. But she spent an inordinate amount of time trying to tell whether a patient's insurance covered visits to a particular lab or specialist.

"You had maybe five minutes with the patient but 20 minutes of paperwork and the ridiculous sorting out of where the patient could go,'' says Normandin, who needed six employees to handle the workload. "It was crazy.''

In 2003 she went back to Canada and opened a family practice near Montreal. Now she has one employee.

Six employees to handle the ridiculous bureacracy - private insurance bureaucracy - in the US vs. one employee to handle the bureaucracy of a single payer system. Is that making the fcuking waste that goes on around here clear enough for you?

That is something I don't understand - why they need so many people to push papers. To employ half a dozen people you're looking at paying out (at least) $150,000 on wages (assuming those office clerks get really $hit money), before you even factor in the cost of equipment and the rental on the office space.

IF you think that paperwork is bad, try to do something through the Govt, like immigration for example.

While totally besides the actual point being discussed, the USCIS paperwork is actually quite simple and straightforward. This very forum is proof of that - tons of amateurs navigating the immigration system w/o needing any kind of formal education or degrees to do so. There are clearly defined processes that are fairly easy to understand, standard form to be filed with clear indications as to what supporting documents to include. There's really nothing difficult about navigating, managing and completing the USCIS processes.

Imagine, if you will, that you'd have to work with large a number of entities to accomplish one single goal - the immigration your spouse. Say there are a few hundred of these entities out there - each with their own processes and forms to be used and adhered to. Imagine further that you'd have to figure out whether you should contact provider A, B, C, etc and at what point of the process taking into consideration that some provider may need approvals from other providers in the process until they even entertain your filings. That sounds a heck of a lot easier than what you're actually dealing with today, or does it?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ah more pointless ####### for tat.

I'd point out again (as others have innumerable times) that the bureaucratic red tape in the US healthcare system is several orders of magnitude greater than that of government run systems in other countries - but I expect it will go unanswered again.

I spend huge blocks of my working time, every day, phoning insurance companies just to FIND OUT what kind of coverage and benefits are covered for our clients. A 'good' call is less than 10 minutes - I have held for as long as 33 minutes to complete a call.

And that's just the time devoted to uncovering what the company will (or won't) pay. Other staff members do the billing and fight for the claims.

And for those of you defending this uniquely American way of providing health care, you might find it interesting that many of the large insurance companies have outsourced their call centers abroad. I frequently speak to phone representatives for Anthem Blue Cross in Argentina.

Take this for example - my wife is currently having some specialist treatment, so she goes onto the insurance website to find some providers that are "in network". After narrowing down a shortlist, she calls a few to see which are covered under the plan and which aren't (those provider lists are often out of date). Once she settled on the one she wanted to go to she calls up the insurance company twice to make sure that the provider is indeed covered and is considered "in network". She is told "yes". Twice.

So last week we get some paperwork in the mail telling us that the provider is actually out of network and to expect a bill from the specialist for the balance of the uncovered portion of the bill.

So she calls up the insurance company again who tell her again that the provider is covered and is "in network" for the purposes of our plan and that we only received this letter because the claim hadn't been properly processed yet.

Makes you wonder how much money gets spent on pointless correspondence that only causes confusion and leads to you (and an insurance company rep) wasting each other's time - because that sure isn't "free".

Edited August 18, 2009 by Private Pike

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'd point out again (as others have innumerable times) that the bureaucratic red tape in the US healthcare system is several orders of magnitude greater than that of government run systems in other countries - but I expect it will go unanswered again.

Of course it will go unaswered. It's a fact that's simply devastating to the very argument that the defenders of waste and inefficiency continue to make. Hence, it must be ignored.

[HAL 9000 96]

Ah more pointless ####### for tat.

I'd point out again (as others have innumerable times) that the bureaucratic red tape in the US healthcare system is several orders of magnitude greater than that of government run systems in other countries - but I expect it will go unanswered again.

I spend huge blocks of my working time, every day, phoning insurance companies just to FIND OUT what kind of coverage and benefits are covered for our clients. A 'good' call is less than 10 minutes - I have held for as long as 33 minutes to complete a call.

And that's just the time devoted to uncovering what the company will (or won't) pay. Other staff members do the billing and fight for the claims.

And for those of you defending this uniquely American way of providing health care, you might find it interesting that many of the large insurance companies have outsourced their call centers abroad. I frequently speak to phone representatives for Anthem Blue Cross in Argentina.

Take this for example - my wife is currently having some specialist treatment, so she goes onto the insurance website to find some providers that are "in network". After narrowing down a shortlist, she calls a few to see which are covered under the plan and which aren't (those provider lists are often out of date). Once she settled on the one she wanted to go to she calls up the insurance company twice to make sure that the provider is indeed covered and is considered "in network". She is told "yes". Twice.

So last week we get some paperwork in the mail telling us that the provider is actually out of network and to expect a bill from the specialist for the balance of the uncovered portion of the bill.

So she calls up the insurance company again who tell her again that the provider is covered and is "in network" for the purposes of our plan and that we only received this letter because the claim hadn't been properly processed yet.

Makes you wonder how much money gets spent on pointless correspondence that only causes confusion and leads to you (and an insurance company rep) wasting each other's time - because that sure isn't "free".

I got a full bill for a CAT scan 3 months ago less than one week after getting the request for coordination of benefits. I of course called them and told them off (< 3 minutes, nicely), got an incident # for the recorded conversation, and then waited to get the adjusted claim. And all this was in an in-network facility. Nice $3K bill. Fvckers.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well I'm waiting on a bill for an emergency X-Ray, "the cheapest form of imaging, only a few hundred $$".

At least that's what we were told.

[My Name Is Nobody 3]

Ah more pointless ####### for tat.

I'd point out again (as others have innumerable times) that the bureaucratic red tape in the US healthcare system is several orders of magnitude greater than that of government run systems in other countries - but I expect it will go unanswered again.

I spend huge blocks of my working time, every day, phoning insurance companies just to FIND OUT what kind of coverage and benefits are covered for our clients. A 'good' call is less than 10 minutes - I have held for as long as 33 minutes to complete a call.

And that's just the time devoted to uncovering what the company will (or won't) pay. Other staff members do the billing and fight for the claims.

And for those of you defending this uniquely American way of providing health care, you might find it interesting that many of the large insurance companies have outsourced their call centers abroad. I frequently speak to phone representatives for Anthem Blue Cross in Argentina.

Take this for example - my wife is currently having some specialist treatment, so she goes onto the insurance website to find some providers that are "in network". After narrowing down a shortlist, she calls a few to see which are covered under the plan and which aren't (those provider lists are often out of date). Once she settled on the one she wanted to go to she calls up the insurance company twice to make sure that the provider is indeed covered and is considered "in network". She is told "yes". Twice.

So last week we get some paperwork in the mail telling us that the provider is actually out of network and to expect a bill from the specialist for the balance of the uncovered portion of the bill.

So she calls up the insurance company again who tell her again that the provider is covered and is "in network" for the purposes of our plan and that we only received this letter because the claim hadn't been properly processed yet.

Makes you wonder how much money gets spent on pointless correspondence that only causes confusion and leads to you (and an insurance company rep) wasting each other's time - because that sure isn't "free".

I got a full bill for a CAT scan 3 months ago less than one week after getting the request for coordination of benefits. I of course called them and told them off (< 3 minutes, nicely), got an incident # for the recorded conversation, and then waited to get the adjusted claim. And all this was in an in-network facility. Nice $3K bill. Fvckers.

Hope you didnt tell them you were the Chairmen of Commies for Christ ( science division). This would not help.