Public option is dead. It's official.

[natty bumppo 297]

I am not saying that they are the majority what I am saying is that you got to take into consideration the dishonest and honest and not assume everybody is genuine and honest(which I am sure these countries took into consideration).

That sentence gave me a headache.

no wonder ... your actuarial guy didn't sew you back up

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Its a lot simpler than you're making out - since we have no way of telling who is lazy or dishonest and who isn't we operate on the basis that there is a genuine, honest need.

I disagree, especially with what were addressing here, health care reform. If we want to come up with a solution that will be excepted and worthwhile we need to factor in human nature, good and bad. To come up with a reform bill that assumes all people are honest and genuine is a huge mistake.

How... exactly... would you do that?

Bring responsibility into the equation and keep health care out of the govs. hands, theres a lack of it there if you havent noticed. Put in regulations in that will keep prices down and lechers away.

Do you really believe we should address this issue as all are genuine and honest?

How?

By implanting microchips inside every person and tracking their activity and diet. People who do not follow standards set by the insurance companies (not by the state, that would be teh communist) will have their policies rescinded.

I am not saying that they are the majority what I am saying is that you got to take into consideration the dishonest and honest and not assume everybody is genuine and honest(which I am sure these countries took into consideration).

That sentence gave me a headache.

no wonder ... your actuarial guy didn't sew you back up

that #######

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There are a fair amount of them in these countries and to say that there isnt is ridiculous. I am not saying that they are the majority what I am saying is that you got to take into consideration the dishonest and honest and not assume everybody is genuine and honest (which I am sure these countries took into consideration).

They don't in Britain - I'm not even sure how its possible to do that.

Seems to me that the only thing that's "fair" is to give everyone equal access to care and treatment. After all, that is the goal of a socialized system.

You give everyone an 'genuine and honest' test prior to treatment.

Sounds worryingly like the Death Panels people were screeching about last week....

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Its a lot simpler than you're making out - since we have no way of telling who is lazy or dishonest and who isn't we operate on the basis that there is a genuine, honest need.

I disagree, especially with what were addressing here, health care reform. If we want to come up with a solution that will be excepted and worthwhile we need to factor in human nature, good and bad. To come up with a reform bill that assumes all people are honest and genuine is a huge mistake.

How... exactly... would you do that?

Bring responsibility into the equation and keep health care out of the govs. hands, theres a lack of it there if you havent noticed. Put in regulations in that will keep prices down and lechers away.

Do you really believe we should address this issue as all are genuine and honest?

How?

By implanting microchips inside every person and tracking their activity and diet. People who do not follow standards set by the insurance companies (not by the state, that would be teh communist) will have their policies rescinded.

An easier solution would be to poison unhealthy food, etc., so the more you eat, smoke, whatever, the sooner you die. It just speeds up what you are doing to yourself anyways.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Seems to me that the only thing that's "fair" is to give everyone equal access to care and treatment.

Care and treatment isn't free. It costs money and it takes labor on the part of other men and women.

If you want to give away the labor of other men and women without expectation of recompense, that's slavery.

If, on the other hand, you expect them to be compensated but not by the individuals receiving the service, that's extortion.

So which one is it?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Socialized means the government pays for it. Nationalized means the government owns it.

Then healthcare is already socialized in large part today. After all, they are already subsidizing the premiums we pay.

Exactly. Besides, the term "socialized health care" as used by the opponents of efficient health care services delivery has really only one main effect - to cloud the debate. The use of the terms socialized health care or socialized medicine is what prompts the countless references to the UK's NHS which have no relevance whatsoever to the health care reform debate in the US.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

An easier solution would be to poison unhealthy food, etc., so the more you eat, smoke, whatever, the sooner you die. It just speeds up what you are doing to yourself anyways.

But then we'd still have to give them emergency care.

There has to be a way to simply kick you out if you enter a KFC.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Seems to me that the only thing that's "fair" is to give everyone equal access to care and treatment.

Care and treatment isn't free. It costs money and it takes labor on the part of other men and women.

If you want to give away the labor of other men and women without expectation of recompense, that's slavery.

If, on the other hand, you expect them to be compensated but not by the individuals receiving the service, that's extortion.

So which one is it?

Who cares.

[natty bumppo 297]

I am not saying that they are the majority what I am saying is that you got to take into consideration the dishonest and honest and not assume everybody is genuine and honest(which I am sure these countries took into consideration).

That sentence gave me a headache.

no wonder ... your actuarial guy didn't sew you back up

that #######

think we can squeeze you under a singer? a good stretch blind hem should do well to accommodate future growth

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Seems to me that the only thing that's "fair" is to give everyone equal access to care and treatment.

Care and treatment isn't free. It costs money and it takes labor on the part of other men and women.

If you want to give away the labor of other men and women without expectation of recompense, that's slavery.

If, on the other hand, you expect them to be compensated but not by the individuals receiving the service, that's extortion.

So which one is it?

Who cares.

The people you seek to enslave or extort care.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Its a lot simpler than you're making out - since we have no way of telling who is lazy or dishonest and who isn't we operate on the basis that there is a genuine, honest need.

I disagree, especially with what were addressing here, health care reform. If we want to come up with a solution that will be excepted and worthwhile we need to factor in human nature, good and bad. To come up with a reform bill that assumes all people are honest and genuine is a huge mistake.

How... exactly... would you do that?

Bring responsibility into the equation and keep health care out of the govs. hands, theres a lack of it there if you havent noticed. Put in regulations in that will keep prices down and lechers away.

Do you really believe we should address this issue as all are genuine and honest?

How?

reasonable regulations

Do you care to answer any of my questions?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

An easier solution would be to poison unhealthy food, etc., so the more you eat, smoke, whatever, the sooner you die. It just speeds up what you are doing to yourself anyways.

But then we'd still have to give them emergency care.

There has to be a way to simply kick you out if you enter a KFC.

Perhaps a poison that is painless, and remains dormant until you reach a certain saturation. Then you just keel over, and die. No cure, no antidote. Suicide by Burger King.

[natty bumppo 297]

An easier solution would be to poison unhealthy food, etc., so the more you eat, smoke, whatever, the sooner you die. It just speeds up what you are doing to yourself anyways.

But then we'd still have to give them emergency care.

There has to be a way to simply kick you out if you enter a KFC.

not if people count on 911 for immediate responses

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

An easier solution would be to poison unhealthy food, etc., so the more you eat, smoke, whatever, the sooner you die. It just speeds up what you are doing to yourself anyways.

But then we'd still have to give them emergency care.

There has to be a way to simply kick you out if you enter a KFC.

Perhaps a poison that is painless, and remains dormant until you reach a certain saturation. Then you just keel over, and die. No cure, no antidote. Suicide by Burger King.

I'd rather use a points system.

If you go below a limit, you lose health care privileges, even emergency.

Every time you wash a stick of celery and chew on it, you get points.

Every time you take down a triple cheeseburger from Wendy's with extra large fries, you lose points.

It would be like a video game, except the stakes would be fo' real.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its a lot simpler than you're making out - since we have no way of telling who is lazy or dishonest and who isn't we operate on the basis that there is a genuine, honest need.

I disagree, especially with what were addressing here, health care reform. If we want to come up with a solution that will be excepted and worthwhile we need to factor in human nature, good and bad. To come up with a reform bill that assumes all people are honest and genuine is a huge mistake.

How... exactly... would you do that?

Bring responsibility into the equation and keep health care out of the govs. hands, theres a lack of it there if you havent noticed. Put in regulations in that will keep prices down and lechers away.

Do you really believe we should address this issue as all are genuine and honest?

How?

reasonable regulations

Like what?

I'm asking you because I don't think its practical.

The people you seek to enslave or extort care.

I'm not enslaving or extorting anyone.