Wife got citizenship, announced she wanted divorce the next day?

[BluesTraveler 0]

the first pumpkin pies of the season came out yesterday. dima hates it. luckily for him, his GC came friday and he'll only have to endure 2 more yrs of his old, fat, pumpkin-pie eating, american wife

It's like a cat, if you keep feeding him he will keep sticking around. My suggestion, give him spoiled milk.

[slim 1,533]

Slim:

I'll be happy to meet you at the airport. I have your flight information. I'll meet you down in the baggage claim area. Just look for me there.

Cheers!

AKD

Only problem is, she'll wanna go too.

[amberdima 6]

the first pumpkin pies of the season came out yesterday. dima hates it. luckily for him, his GC came friday and he'll only have to endure 2 more yrs of his old, fat, pumpkin-pie eating, american wife

It's like a cat, if you keep feeding him he will keep sticking around. My suggestion, give him spoiled milk.

sour cream

Edited August 25, 2009 by amberdima

[BluesTraveler 0]

the first pumpkin pies of the season came out yesterday. dima hates it. luckily for him, his GC came friday and he'll only have to endure 2 more yrs of his old, fat, pumpkin-pie eating, american wife

It's like a cat, if you keep feeding him he will keep sticking around. My suggestion, give him spoiled milk.

sour cream

Giving sour cream to a Belorussian is like giving a crack pipe to Whitney Houston, you are never going to get rid of him.

[slim 1,533]

sour cream

My cat loves sour cream! Then again, she also understands the same Russian swear words I do, so I guess that makes all the sense in the world.

[stlouis 3]

I wonder how many East European/American marriages result in the couple living in Eastern Europe

There has to be a reason for that. It's nearly always an East European woman and an American man

Many British men marry American women but how many American women marry Vietnamese men or Ukrainian men or men from Moscow ? I am sure there are some but not many

I am not saying anything is wrong with that by that way - it's just the way it is and for a reason (a number of reasons) and that's fine by me.

Just my 2 cents (as a Ukrainian woman living in the US for the last 9 years).

I think you will also see more FSU woman / American man couples even among immigrants in US (not seeking any immigration benefits) and very few American woman / FSU man couples. As my American friend says "none of my Ukrainian friends date Ukrainians'. I reply to her that Ukrainian men are too 'traditional' for me (not all of course but happens more often than with Western men), such as wanting a wife that cooks/does all housework/ works full time/ etc.. Then Ukrainian men in US complain that Ukrainian girls become too emancipated and go and date Asian girls.

[amberdima 6]

I wonder how many East European/American marriages result in the couple living in Eastern Europe

There has to be a reason for that. It's nearly always an East European woman and an American man

Many British men marry American women but how many American women marry Vietnamese men or Ukrainian men or men from Moscow ? I am sure there are some but not many

I am not saying anything is wrong with that by that way - it's just the way it is and for a reason (a number of reasons) and that's fine by me.

Just my 2 cents (as a Ukrainian woman living in the US for the last 9 years).

I think you will also see more FSU woman / American man couples even among immigrants in US (not seeking any immigration benefits) and very few American woman / FSU man couples. As my American friend says "none of my Ukrainian friends date Ukrainians'. I reply to her that Ukrainian men are too 'traditional' for me (not all of course but happens more often than with Western men), such as wanting a wife that cooks/does all housework/ works full time/ etc.. Then Ukrainian men in US complain that Ukrainian girls become too emancipated and go and date Asian girls.

i wish i weren't so 'emancipated.' guess i should have married a richer FSU man.

[eekee 182]

I wonder how many East European/American marriages result in the couple living in Eastern Europe

There has to be a reason for that. It's nearly always an East European woman and an American man

Many British men marry American women but how many American women marry Vietnamese men or Ukrainian men or men from Moscow ? I am sure there are some but not many

I am not saying anything is wrong with that by that way - it's just the way it is and for a reason (a number of reasons) and that's fine by me.

Just my 2 cents (as a Ukrainian woman living in the US for the last 9 years).

I think you will also see more FSU woman / American man couples even among immigrants in US (not seeking any immigration benefits) and very few American woman / FSU man couples. As my American friend says "none of my Ukrainian friends date Ukrainians'. I reply to her that Ukrainian men are too 'traditional' for me (not all of course but happens more often than with Western men), such as wanting a wife that cooks/does all housework/ works full time/ etc.. Then Ukrainian men in US complain that Ukrainian girls become too emancipated and go and date Asian girls.

Eh. It depends on the person. My FSU man cooks and cleans more, and better, than I do. My Belarusian grandfather did a hell of lot more cooking and cleaning than my American grandfather (and father) ever did. I do know some FSU women who only date foreigners, and a lot of it just snobbism/desire to immigrate. And it seems to me that that those who are already in the West often develop weird perceptions and FSU-phobia.

Edited August 26, 2009 by eekee

[stlouis 3]

Eh. It depends on the person. My FSU man cooks and cleans more, and better, than I do. My Belarusian grandfather did a hell of lot more cooking and cleaning than my American grandfather (and father) ever did. I do know some FSU women who only date foreigners, and a lot of it just snobbism/desire to immigrate. And it seems to me that that those who are already in the West often develop weird perceptions and FSU-phobia.

In my post, I did not say 'all men'. I also know enough FSU men who cook and do housework, and I know a lot of really great FSU men and women. I am very happy for you and Amber that you found your men.

I agree it always depends on a person. On the other hand, there are certain culture and tradition in every country. I think what was common (but already seen lots of change) in Ukraine and other FSU countries is where woman was expected to work as much as men, she still was expected to do full time housework and looking after children. Again, I am talking about an 'average' case. I see more sense in tradition where things are more balanced, e.g. one person works and other does all housework and looks after children, or both people work and do all housework and looking after children together. By the way, I personally chose the latter case.

There is of course much more in the culture than who does the housework: I would call it something like 'woman place in society'. That would be too long of a discussion..

Regarding my first post, I was trying to support the argument that it's possible that an FSU woman marries a Western man and immigrates not because she wants to immigrate to a better place, but because she finds culture and as a result personality of her Western man more attractive to her.

[italy to USA 0]

Not out of date at all with that, but you are spot on - things have changed in Eastern Europe for the better. No more lines for basic foodstuffs for example (not for 15-20 years). Grocery stores, and in fact lots of shops, in Odessa are really upscale - you can get nearly anything you can buy in America (except peanut butter ). Poland is a notable exception to the "I'm happy at home" rule, as there is a huge migration west underway from Poland to the UK, and there has been a very large diaspora of Polish in America for generations. Hey, the Poles have to make room for all those Romanians and Slovenians moving west into the better paying parts of the Schengen zone right?

The reason you don't see Americans and Brits immigrating to Eastern Europe is income, simply put. If I could maintain a similar living standard in Ukraine, I would try it. I don't say that out loud, because my wife would be packed before the words left my mouth. American women do dig foreign guys too - check out the MENA forum - you will find one or two around In this day and age, I just don't buy that the fantasy lure of America's gold-paved streets holds water anywhere any more.

Romanians and Slovenians in the same sentence? I'm pretty sure Slovenians are not emigrating like Romanians, in fact they have quite a nice standard of living over there and seem to be quite content with their little, yet outrageously beautiful country.

[visaveteran 0]

I always like to see the data. Speculations and limited personal experiences never tell us very much. Anecdotal stories are interesting but in the end mean nothing regarding the sociological phenomenon between the FSU and America.

Many of the stories we get from posters flows out of Moscow, St. Petersburg, and now to some extent Kiev. I don't see much coming out of other FSU areas, so we should be aware of the limited discussions and where they stem from. I am more interested in the more typical, smaller cities and towns of Russia. There seem to be differences in behavior, belief systems, and various socioeconomic differences. In my wife's Siberian town there are many more women than men and this seems to impact most aspects of life between men and women in that area.

I personally think the ages of the people involved also makes a big difference in various marriage issues such as gender roles in the home, views about America, working out side the home, etc. I would hypothesize that older Russian women are more "traditional" in the ways of women under communism and younger Russian women are more westernized and...well...feminist.

I do believe that Russia is still a male bastion and women are still second class citizens in some ways, even while women seem to carry the burden of working and supporting families well beyond that of typical men.

I also think that the ability to speak English has a very large impact on a USA/Russian relationship. In my personal experience, my wife wanted to marry me so much that she overcame her lack of English skills. I can say language was never a negative issue between us...and in ways made our relationship better as we had to develop other ways to deal with each other successfully.

Russian women who do speak decent English may tend to think they can pick and choose more due to having a "leg up" on finding a prospective husband. It may take more to attract these women...and women who speak English in Russia or more apt to have a better job than those who don't. Getting a woman to marry you and move to the USA may be more of a difficult sell if the woman has a good job, a nice flat and general satisfaction with her life.

[stlouis 3]

I do believe that Russia is still a male bastion and women are still second class citizens in some ways, even while women seem to carry the burden of working and supporting families well beyond that of typical men.

I agree with your whole post, visaveteran. I quoted this part to show that this is also what I have seen.

I am from Kiev, and yes it's very different there than in smaller towns. I have family in small towns and villages in Russia and a bit bigger town in Belorussia, so I've seen other places as well. And yes, what we all say here are just our experiences -- but isn't it an interesting discussion anyway? It looks like there is no Ukrainian women in this thread, so I thought I could give the other side of the story. Ok, I have never been married to an American man, so maybe I am not much on the subject...

[Brad and Vika 129]

I was actually disagreeing with what Brad&Vika was saying about Poles migrating to the UK, and his little quip about the Romanians and Slovenians taking their place. In the context of my comment 'places' can be substituted if you prefer. I guess what I was objection to is that the type of argument that atempts to extol one side at the expense/detriment of another is not sound.

It was a joke - no offense intended. I have no idea what the stats are. I do not prefer Brits over Romanians, Slovenians, or whatever. There have been a large number of Polish immigrants coming to America for a long time - I spent part of my childhood in a Polish-American neighborhood. I have no problem with that at all.

[eekee 182]

I would argue that the difference is more generational than geographical or even socioeconomical. I live in St. Petersburg now, but a lot of my friends moved here rather recently from other parts of Russia. And neither Amber nor I are with men from Moscow/SPb/Kiev. But there is a huge generation gap between people who are the equivalent ages of Generation X and Y and people who are baby boomer age. The people I know here are cooler and hipper than the people I know in suburban PA. There are also people though who are obviously not as with it, but that's true of every place.

So I suppose that dating an FSU man in his 40s or 50s would be a very different thing, as would dating someone who is some kind of a thug or whatever.

[stlouis 3]

I would argue that the difference is more generational than geographical or even socioeconomical. I live in St. Petersburg now, but a lot of my friends moved here rather recently from other parts of Russia. And neither Amber nor I are with men from Moscow/SPb/Kiev. But there is a huge generation gap between people who are the equivalent ages of Generation X and Y and people who are baby boomer age. The people I know here are cooler and hipper than the people I know in suburban PA. There are also people though who are obviously not as with it, but that's true of every place.

So I suppose that dating an FSU man in his 40s or 50s would be a very different thing, as would dating someone who is some kind of a thug or whatever.

Since we all agreed that there are lots of changes in recent years, so sure there is a generation gap. I also think geographical differences are understandable, because big cities are usually faster to change.

I was quite surprised to see so much discussion here that FSU women immigrate for money and rich life. I believe many are just happy to find a nice man. For me a nice man is someone who respects me and what I do and that we are partners. Maybe I have seen more of a 'male world' in Ukraine, because I chose to do a computer science degree, and many men in Ukraine (> 9 years ago) did not believe in women computer scientists. So I heard a professor say that we should not allow women here and even some of my male friends say they would only hire a woman secretary in a software company. OK I probably went too far off topic, but just wanted to say a word for all Ukrainian/Russian/Belorussian woman here and sorry if I generalized a bit about men.

eekee, how long do you live in St. Petersburg? I've been there when I was about 11 and really loved the city.