Wife got citizenship, announced she wanted divorce the next day?

[visaveteran 1]

In 2004 Pelosi said she's likes "the disrupters" and in 2009 she calls disrupters un-American. That is known as a current events issue. Gingrich is not. I don't like two-faced people on either party...but Pelosi takes it to a new level. She is surely in a class by herself.

VV, you might be able to get away with the kool-aid propaganda in OT, but I'm whatchacall a little more well read than your averate OT mouth-breather. I'm not a big Pelosi fan, but she never said that she approves of disrupting town hall meetings. She told a group of war protestors at her own town hall meeting that she "appreciates" them speaking up, even while they (her own anti-war constituency!) were shouting at her. And she did this as they were starting to shout "no more war" and disrupt her own town hall meeting. The "disruptors" quote was in reference to her admiration of Franklin Roosevelt, whom she called a "disruptor." She said she's a great fan of "disruptors," people who shake up the system. She wasn't talking about town hall disruptors.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You've willfully distorted the facts so that you can further your own argument. If you have a valid argument at all then it will stand on its own. You don't need the lies.

Stalin's political prisoners in Siberia cried when they heard he died. Obviously Russians are a different breed than Americans.

What, all of them? And I have no idea what you're trying to say wrt Russians.

Within your political scoldings and rants, IMJ, are elements of truth and wisdom, but obscured by the name calling, insults and junior high school comments. That's where you loose me. That's when it's not fun anymore.

And, I notice when you get cornered you ramp up the nasty stuff. A tactical manuever to slip away from owning you might be wrong or that other person might have made good points. What's next from you? "Ya Momma!"

And, you argue weakly by offering an example of how the other side is as bad or worse than your lefty idols (i.e., Pelosi versus Gingrich). As we learned in kinder-garden, two wrongs don't make a right.

I heard Pelosi's 2004 remarks and if she can honor town hall shouters and trouble-makers by associating them with FDR, then maybe she's the Kool-Aid caterer.

The Stalin comment? Patriotism is in the eye of the beholder. We see him as the devil. Many Russians loved him. I see Pelosi as the Joan Rivers of the House of Representatives. You defend her. It's ll in the eye of the beholder.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I think I see your point about getting real - seeing love for all that it is, instead of some fantasy. As for the rest - I have to call bullsh1t on you I have been to Odessa four times (twice with my wife, and twice without). Enjoyed it each time. It is a different environment than a typical vacation, granted, but still quite nice. There are good and bad areas like most cities. Maybe my perception is different, as I enjoyed Bucharest, Minsk, Warsaw, and many other cities too.

I should also mention that most people I have met in Eastern Europe have no desire to be saved somehow by leaving. They are quite content in their own country. Hard to believe, but lots of people outside the US actually like their country . Many immigrants actually do leave to be with their SO - that is the benefit they see.

I may be out of date in that people were prepared to be shot in their attempts to cross the Berlin wall etc to freedom and I believe the West is very attractive to Easterners. I worked with many Poles and none of them wanted to go back. They just wanted to marry an Italian or Irish catholic and stay in the UK

Ok the political thing is different now but 600,000 Poles just rushed to live in the UK.

So I am not on board with the idea that Eastern Europeans don't find the idea of moving to the West to be attractive

The last American to enjoy living in Russia was Lee Harvey Oswald and that didn't last

I wonder how many East European/American marriages result in the couple living in Eastern Europe

There has to be a reason for that. It's nearly always an East European woman and an American man

Many British men marry American women but how many American women marry Vietnamese men or Ukrainian men or men from Moscow ? I am sure there are some but not many

I am not saying anything is wrong with that by that way - it's just the way it is and for a reason (a number of reasons) and that's fine by me. Had I not been married I might well have taken that route myself in my parner search. I actually took my American bride to the UK to live and she had a UK green card and a job there - but she didnt like it and so here we are in the U.S. and it's fine by me.

I don't see any of this stuff bordering on immigration fraud and I think the conditions in many countries are an added incentive, and I don't see a problem in admitting that either to ourselves or the USCIS

If some 70 year old toothless lonely gimmer gets a beautiful 29 year old bride from a horrible steaming sweat shop in a dangerous dirty poverty stricken city and they are both deliriously happy with what they both got out of it and value each other enormously, then I say good luck to them and well done. It's 'the market ' at work and all Americans and Margaret Thatcher are in favour of that

I think it's great that people have options and possibilities to escape their situations whatever or wherever they are and 'love' per the USCIS field manual is indefinable anyway

Good luck to all of us

Not out of date at all with that, but you are spot on - things have changed in Eastern Europe for the better. No more lines for basic foodstuffs for example (not for 15-20 years). Grocery stores, and in fact lots of shops, in Odessa are really upscale - you can get nearly anything you can buy in America (except peanut butter ). Poland is a notable exception to the "I'm happy at home" rule, as there is a huge migration west underway from Poland to the UK, and there has been a very large diaspora of Polish in America for generations. Hey, the Poles have to make room for all those Romanians and Slovenians moving west into the better paying parts of the Schengen zone right?

The reason you don't see Americans and Brits immigrating to Eastern Europe is income, simply put. If I could maintain a similar living standard in Ukraine, I would try it. I don't say that out loud, because my wife would be packed before the words left my mouth. American women do dig foreign guys too - check out the MENA forum - you will find one or two around In this day and age, I just don't buy that the fantasy lure of America's gold-paved streets holds water anywhere any more.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Brad and Vika

[mox 298]

Within your political scoldings and rants, IMJ, are elements of truth and wisdom, but obscured by the name calling, insults and junior high school comments. That's where you loose me. That's when it's not fun anymore.

From your first post in this thread: "Good thought...perhaps you could extend it to also cover your one-dimensional pontificating and stale left-wing talking points speeches."

If you're gonna whine about name-calling, you should probably check yourself first.

And, I notice when you get cornered you ramp up the nasty stuff. A tactical manuever to slip away from owning you might be wrong or that other person might have made good points. What's next from you? "Ya Momma!"

1989 called and wants it's catch-phrase back. I told them the phrase is actually "yo mama," so technically they don't have a leg to stand on, but they still would like a call back anyway. I'm just the messenger. Also, not sure where you got the impression I felt cornered. You lied about Nancy Pelosi, and I set the record straight. That's not cornered, that's...cornering. If I were wrong, I'd own it. But the record shows that Pelosi's words have been twisted for political gain. As I said before, if you truly have a sound argument then you don't need to rely on the lies. Pelosi's done enough stupid ####### that you don't have to make stuff up.

And, you argue weakly by offering an example of how the other side is as bad or worse than your lefty idols (i.e., Pelosi versus Gingrich). As we learned in kinder-garden, two wrongs don't make a right.

Did you feel that rush of cool air whoosh by? That was my point being completely missed by you, which was EXACTLY that 2 wrongs don't make a right. You pulled out Pelosi, and I pulled out Gingrich, saying that we could go on and on like that but it doesn't solve anything.

I heard Pelosi's 2004 remarks and if she can honor town hall shouters and trouble-makers by associating them with FDR, then maybe she's the Kool-Aid caterer.

You heard what you wanted to hear, not what she said. Her supporters were angry, and she wanted to let them know that she was listening. That's what a good representative does. (not that I think she's a good representative, only that in this particular case she was doing what a good representative would do, which is to empathize with her constituents.) Watch a version of the video that hasn't been doctored by either side if you care at all about the truth. I'm not trying to tell you what your political beliefs should be, but dear gawd at least base those beliefs on the truth. Sorry, but this whole "she was for the disruptors before she was against the disruptors" is all fabricated tin-foil talk-radio bullshit. It's carries as much water as Obama's Kenyan birth certificate.

The Stalin comment? Patriotism is in the eye of the beholder. We see him as the devil. Many Russians loved him. I see Pelosi as the Joan Rivers of the House of Representatives. You defend her. It's ll in the eye of the beholder.

See? We agree on something. Crazy.

[Captain Oates 911]

Not out of date at all with that, but you are spot on - things have changed in Eastern Europe for the better. No more lines for basic foodstuffs for example (not for 15-20 years). Grocery stores, and in fact lots of shops, in Odessa are really upscale - you can get nearly anything you can buy in America (except peanut butter ). Poland is a notable exception to the "I'm happy at home" rule, as there is a huge migration west underway from Poland to the UK, and there has been a very large diaspora of Polish in America for generations. Hey, the Poles have to make room for all those Romanians and Slovenians moving west into the better paying parts of the Schengen zone right?

The reason you don't see Americans and Brits immigrating to Eastern Europe is income, simply put. If I could maintain a similar living standard in Ukraine, I would try it. I don't say that out loud, because my wife would be packed before the words left my mouth. American women do dig foreign guys too - check out the MENA forum - you will find one or two around In this day and age, I just don't buy that the fantasy lure of America's gold-paved streets holds water anywhere any more.

I remember a middle aged, married, British woman bringing a 20 year old masai warrior back to london and setting up in an apartment with him.

He was sat there with his spear and cheetah skin loin cloth and wondered what the hell had hit him.

I felt a bit like that in the USA but it's weird how what seemed so insane becomes the norm after a couple of years.

Someone being arrested and called a slimeball by the TV newscasters before their trial seemed so unfair - but now I hardly notice it.

The Poles get very homesick but a couple of weeks back home cures that. It's becoming like that when I visit England. My boozing buddy every Friday night for 14 years was Polish and he still struggled with English after 40 years living in the UK. I have a wonderful Polish vocabulary now including 'horse's teeth' and 'fat legs' and 'huge bottom' and 'massively huge bottom'. . Ukrainians can usually folow it

Many people where I lived were from East European countries so we had to be careful when practising this essential vocabulary

It's hard on the brain and a lot of immigrants from non English speaking countries develop mental illnesses in later years

Nobody in the US can follow my expressions as it is - so I have great admiration/sympathy for people who come and do driving tests etc etc and live in English speaking society. They must feel very lonely at times and that nobody really understands the way their home culture thinks. Inability to speak your thoughts in your meaningful way must be like solitary confinement

Don't know how they do it. My wife is learning Yorkshire English subliminally and she teaches English to Hispanic people on a voluntary basis. In a few years there will be Mexicans saying 'look sharp duck' in the Pacific North West and they will have swapped one foreign language for another

It's not easy

[akdiver 3]

In a few years there will be Mexicans saying 'look sharp duck' in the Pacific North West and they will have swapped one foreign language for another

I think it's a lot more likely that everyone else will be saying, "¿Habla Español?".

[slim 1,525]

I was hoping things were still going well for you. I take it from your continued presence here, they are? Have you whipped her into shape yet, in terms of realistic economic theory? (:

We're getting there. I think it's more of a numbness from repeatedly striking my head against the wall than an actual bliss from the happiness of wedded union.

Really I think the solution, at least for this forum, is to appoint somebody (Slim's name has been dropped multiple times) the RU forum mod and be done with it Yeah, I nominated him for that a loooooooooooong time ago. I think he is sucker enough to do it too (:

I would mod this forum much like I would mod America - Everyone gets a rifle, plenty of ammo and pie, and then we just sit back and relax.

[slim 1,525]

Ah.... I almost forgot - on the patriot stuff.

Placing a magnet on the back of your SUV doesn't make you a patriot. I'll take the "love it or leave it" over those @$$clowns any day. However, almost all the love it or leave it ignorami have magnets on their vehicles so it's pretty much a moot point. Both of those strains of doofus-Americani need a good dose of H1N1.

[eekee 182]

Saywhat--when were you in Odessa? Things in Eastern Europe even in the last five years. And sure, it's different, and not for everyone.

[visaveteran 1]

Within your political scoldings and rants, IMJ, are elements of truth and wisdom, but obscured by the name calling, insults and junior high school comments. That's where you loose me. That's when it's not fun anymore.

From your first post in this thread: "Good thought...perhaps you could extend it to also cover your one-dimensional pontificating and stale left-wing talking points speeches."

If you're gonna whine about name-calling, you should probably check yourself first.

And, I notice when you get cornered you ramp up the nasty stuff. A tactical manuever to slip away from owning you might be wrong or that other person might have made good points. What's next from you? "Ya Momma!"

1989 called and wants it's catch-phrase back. I told them the phrase is actually "yo mama," so technically they don't have a leg to stand on, but they still would like a call back anyway. I'm just the messenger. Also, not sure where you got the impression I felt cornered. You lied about Nancy Pelosi, and I set the record straight. That's not cornered, that's...cornering. If I were wrong, I'd own it. But the record shows that Pelosi's words have been twisted for political gain. As I said before, if you truly have a sound argument then you don't need to rely on the lies. Pelosi's done enough stupid ####### that you don't have to make stuff up.

And, you argue weakly by offering an example of how the other side is as bad or worse than your lefty idols (i.e., Pelosi versus Gingrich). As we learned in kinder-garden, two wrongs don't make a right.

Did you feel that rush of cool air whoosh by? That was my point being completely missed by you, which was EXACTLY that 2 wrongs don't make a right. You pulled out Pelosi, and I pulled out Gingrich, saying that we could go on and on like that but it doesn't solve anything.

I heard Pelosi's 2004 remarks and if she can honor town hall shouters and trouble-makers by associating them with FDR, then maybe she's the Kool-Aid caterer.

You heard what you wanted to hear, not what she said. Her supporters were angry, and she wanted to let them know that she was listening. That's what a good representative does. (not that I think she's a good representative, only that in this particular case she was doing what a good representative would do, which is to empathize with her constituents.) Watch a version of the video that hasn't been doctored by either side if you care at all about the truth. I'm not trying to tell you what your political beliefs should be, but dear gawd at least base those beliefs on the truth. Sorry, but this whole "she was for the disruptors before she was against the disruptors" is all fabricated tin-foil talk-radio bullshit. It's carries as much water as Obama's Kenyan birth certificate.

The Stalin comment? Patriotism is in the eye of the beholder. We see him as the devil. Many Russians loved him. I see Pelosi as the Joan Rivers of the House of Representatives. You defend her. It's ll in the eye of the beholder.

See? We agree on something. Crazy.

Suggesting you "practice what you preach" around calling for people to keep things "inside" was a justifiable position IMJ, even though snide humor was also a part of it.

BTW, Ya momma is the feminine; Yo momma, the masculine. Don't you know Spanish?

Regarding my "lying" about Pelosi's two-faced comments, show me where "the record shows" that is a distortion. I'd enjoy reviewing "the official record" on that. I'd also like a link to the "non doctored" version of the Pelosi video from 2004. You speak with such certainty, I'm sure you can provide your proof.

As to your comment, "it's fabricated tin-foil talk-radio bullshit." Just what are we supposed to do with this statement? Show us your evidence.

Concerning "two wrongs don't make a right." My understanding of that proverb is that when someone counters an argument with: "Well, so and so did that same bad thing too!" they're guilty of distracting away from the real issue...as you did by invoking Gingrich's name in the discussion of Pelosi. Pelosi was the topic of discussion, not Gingrich.

Finally, if a "good Representative" listens to his/her constituents (even the loud ones), why does she call the current health care protesters anti-American? I'm not following the logic of your argument. How was the war protesters anger different from the health care protesters anger?

[mox 298]

Saywhat--when were you in Odessa? Things in Eastern Europe even in the last five years. And sure, it's different, and not for everyone.

Not saying that saywhat falls in this category, but for many Americans if there isn't a McDonalds and a Starbucks on every other street corner, then it classifies as barbaric and backwater.

[Captain Oates 911]

Saywhat--when were you in Odessa? Things in Eastern Europe even in the last five years. And sure, it's different, and not for everyone.

I would guess around 10 years ago

Time flies quicker as you get older - ask anyone

It was amazing to drive into what was East Berlin too. My pal who is West German describes the East germans as 'osties' and points out their white socks which are the identifier

These huge changes take time to digest

I know that US policy is to pump resources into places like Ukraine and Georgia to destabilize the neighbours who see the increased living standards. Same in Taiwan/South Korea/West Berlin (as was)

In some places like Afghanistan, policy was to send in missiles and arms of all kinds with the results we know of all too well

All these moves were pretty successful too

The next move will be to pump resources into Afghanistan, so the Iranians/Pakistanis all want to be like them.

In 10 years we may have VJers saying how nice Kabul is now - I certainly hope so

Let's hope Odessa gets more and more attractive so that all the illegal immigrants who are swamping the UK/Holland/Spain etc, decide to target Odessa instead

Success brings it's own problems as Miss Spears and Mr Jackson and Mr Presley etc etc found out

Edited August 20, 2009 by saywhat

[eekee 182]

Saywhat--when were you in Odessa? Things in Eastern Europe even in the last five years. And sure, it's different, and not for everyone.

Not saying that saywhat falls in this category, but for many Americans if there isn't a McDonalds and a Starbucks on every other street corner, then it classifies as barbaric and backwater.

This is true. I know many expats who will only settle for EURO REMONT apartments and anything else is barbaric and uninhabitable.

Saywhat, Eastern Europe has changed DRASTICALLY since 1999. You really can't compare it to the way it is now. I live in Russia quite comfortably and in fact had to move back here because I couldn't find a job in the US.

Edited August 20, 2009 by eekee

[Captain Oates 911]

Saywhat--when were you in Odessa? Things in Eastern Europe even in the last five years. And sure, it's different, and not for everyone.

Not saying that saywhat falls in this category, but for many Americans if there isn't a McDonalds and a Starbucks on every other street corner, then it classifies as barbaric and backwater.

This is true. I know many expats who will only settle for EURO REMONT apartments and anything else is barbaric and uninhabitable.

Saywhat, Eastern Europe has changed DRASTICALLY since 1999. You really can't compare it to the way it is now. I live in Russia quite comfortably and in fact had to move back here because I couldn't find a job in the US.

I know what you mean there - My USC wife got a job in the UK but could not get one in Florida

After 6 months trying 10 hours per day and 7 days per week, she gave up and we were lucky she got one in Washington State finally. It's in hydro electric and now the rivers are drying up through global warming so she is on compulsory leave with no pay (If Sarah is right, it's only a blip and it will be normal next year)

The West got all these stories about Russian Grannies being conned into signing their Moscow flats over to some gangster before being taken into the woods and shot and that is still the Western view of Russia now - from the outside. I guess that stuff is a form of capitalism taken to the extreme

It's encouraging to learn that it is more affluent and civilised now

Don't tell the North Africans and Kurds and Romanians though or they will be all heading your way to claim benefits and you might even get some American Republicans coming your way to escape from Socialism/Nazism in the US (to hear em talk)

I look forward to the day that Westerners pour East - that will be very interesting

OK the question is - has this economic improvement stopped the flow of beautiful lady Muscovites/Ukrainians to the USA and if their motive is partly economic, is that unlawful. I dont think it is so long as it's a part and not all of it - as evidenced by them staying with their husband after the GC or Citizenship. Part of the motive is fine. It's a heck of a lot tougher for them than me and I know a lot go back.

My wife is very suspicious by nature and was slightly surprised when I first suggested living in the UK instead of the promised land (Finest country in the history of the world - Mitt Romney) - and then I stayed with her after the 10 year unconditional GC. Goes to show that people can be overly suspicious ....

I am typing this with the need for a root canal - they just quoted me $780 and I told em I paid $15 for my last one in the UK. My insurance is blown for 2009. Faced with that, I am sure many immigrants wonder if they have done the right thing. Still I will be able to go to Cuba and get it done for a bottle of Sangria and $10 US next year if Mr O gets his way

Rambling in pain

[akdiver 3]

Pretty much anyone can find a job in the U.S., if their willingness to accept employment is appropriately adjusted and they are sufficiently motivated. My wife got a pretty good job here ($60K+ manager job), but she would still rather live somewhere in Europe. The U.S. isn't all things to all people, despite what the media would have you believe.

As for us - my wife's passport, passport card, and certificate of naturalization all arrived in the mail today (3 separate mailings, only the passport was with delivery confirmation). So, the process is OFFICIALLY ###### OVER for us!!! FYI - mailed off passport application on 1 August, we got everything back on 20 August - so right at 3 weeks. Keep that in mind if you are tempted to pay a lot more money for expedited processing - I don't think it is worth it (we went with normal processing).

Cheers!

AKD

[mox 298]

OK the question is - has this economic improvement stopped the flow of beautiful lady Muscovites/Ukrainians to the USA and if their motive is partly economic, is that unlawful. I dont think it is so long as it's a part and not all of it - as evidenced by them staying with their husband after the GC or Citizenship. Part of the motive is fine. It's a heck of a lot tougher for them than me and I know a lot go back.

There's no evidence that supports the notion that FSU women are "flowing" into the US for even partially economic reasons. As Ekee and others keep pointing out, Eastern Europe and Russia have changed a LOT since you were there. Yes of course there's going to be the odd green card scam, but there's nothing to indicate money is a primary or even secondary motive. Not sure why you keep going back to this, do you have a point to make?

Edited August 20, 2009 by mox