Need advice before trip to Morocco

[ya falaha! 0]

Kat is hanginginthere.

I'm not "ganging" up on anyone cuz I'm not sure how a one woman show can gang up. Hmmm one woman gang, I like that. Anyhoo, Kat's choice in men is horrible but she won't own that. It's all of MENA's fault for producing 3 sacks of shitt. Palestinians are bad because of one drug addicted abuser. I happen to know some lovely Palestinian men. Absolutely lovely. Moroccans are bad because of one philandering user. Plenty of ladies here are married to perfectly fine Moroccan men. Algerians now are ####### because of one RAI roadie that she followed around Algeria. Come on now. She's ripped older gals, fat gals, etc. because, of course, they're being used. I'm supposed to tip toe around this woman because she f@cked up? I'm supposed to feel bad for multiple bad choices she made and a shitt storm she brought upon herself? I'm supposed to feel bad after all the racist, ageist and sizeist comments she's made? I'm the bad one here? Where's the outrage at her for calling all your men users and ripping your men for being Arab? Where's the outrage at her calling all y'all too fat or too old to hold on to a man?

Edited September 24, 2009 by Astarte

[sara..... 371]

i think the biggest point is that the new people dont know who kat is and all that she has gone thru, so they pay attention to the horror stories they tend to grab the attention of any member its all heart felt and very hard for who ever it happens to........

what we have to try to remember is that there is good and bad in any country not just the country's over seas.........i mean come on if the men in USA had the same qualities that we are looking for why would any of us endure the long period of waiting for immigration?

I had a friend ask me if it turns out that perviz is using u for g.c. what will u do? my first reaction be rich from child support........and community property but in truth i would be devastated just as kat or anyone else it happened to.....but i hope that im able to see that not all men from India are the same and paint them all with the same brush........

anyways just my opinion

sara

[morocco4ever 63]

Kat is hanginginthere.

I'm not "ganging" up on anyone cuz I'm not sure how a one woman show can gang up. Hmmm one woman gang, I like that. Anyhoo, Kat's choice in men is horrible but she won't own that. It's all of MENA's fault for producing 3 sacks of shitt. Palestinians are bad because of one drug addicted abuser. I happen to know some lovely Palestinian men. Absolutely lovely. Moroccans are bad because of one philandering user. Plenty of ladies here are married to perfectly fine Moroccan men. Algerians now are ####### because of one RAI roadie that she followed around Algeria. Come on now. She's ripped older gals, fat gals, etc. because, of course, they're being used. I'm supposed to tip toe around this woman because she f@cked up? I'm supposed to feel bad for multiple bad choices she made and a shitt storm she brought upon herself? I'm supposed to feel bad after all the racist, ageist and sizeist comments she's made? I'm the bad one here? Where's the outrage at her for calling all your men users and ripping your men for being Arab? Where's the outrage at her calling all y'all too fat or too old to hold on to a man?

I don't have your back because you are a bad enough b!tch without my assistance. Besides.....you scare me a little.

[ya falaha! 0]

Bahaha...do not fear...I luvs you.

Kat is hanginginthere.

I'm not "ganging" up on anyone cuz I'm not sure how a one woman show can gang up. Hmmm one woman gang, I like that. Anyhoo, Kat's choice in men is horrible but she won't own that. It's all of MENA's fault for producing 3 sacks of shitt. Palestinians are bad because of one drug addicted abuser. I happen to know some lovely Palestinian men. Absolutely lovely. Moroccans are bad because of one philandering user. Plenty of ladies here are married to perfectly fine Moroccan men. Algerians now are ####### because of one RAI roadie that she followed around Algeria. Come on now. She's ripped older gals, fat gals, etc. because, of course, they're being used. I'm supposed to tip toe around this woman because she f@cked up? I'm supposed to feel bad for multiple bad choices she made and a shitt storm she brought upon herself? I'm supposed to feel bad after all the racist, ageist and sizeist comments she's made? I'm the bad one here? Where's the outrage at her for calling all your men users and ripping your men for being Arab? Where's the outrage at her calling all y'all too fat or too old to hold on to a man?

I don't have your back because you are a bad enough b!tch without my assistance. Besides.....you scare me a little.

[angie & abed 1]

I don't have but a minute, but I would like to say I am not outraged by anything. And I never said I was on "her side", I just think maybe she has been through enough without fellow women being nasty. Maybe I am, as my husband always tells me, too sensitive to others. I am old, fat and ugly and my hubby is Pali....but do I take offense to her posts, nope. Do I take offense to yours, nuh-uh, sure don't. I'm sorry I even said anything now. Anyhoo...I wanted to write something more profound, however I can't concentrate with a crying toddler and 2 month old.

God bless.

BTW....Astarte, you weren't really the person I had in mind when

I wrote my post, just so you know. Take care!

[ya falaha! 0]

Uh oh...tend to those babies...they're adorable.

I don't have but a minute, but I would like to say I am not outraged by anything. And I never said I was on "her side", I just think maybe she has been through enough without fellow women being nasty. Maybe I am, as my husband always tells me, too sensitive to others. I am old, fat and ugly and my hubby is Pali....but do I take offense to her posts, nope. Do I take offense to yours, nuh-uh, sure don't. I'm sorry I even said anything now. Anyhoo...I wanted to write something more profound, however I can't concentrate with a crying toddler and 2 month old.

God bless.

BTW....Astarte, you weren't really the person I had in mind when

I wrote my post, just so you know. Take care!

[tany1157 161]

I know this is going to put me on a sh!t list, and I'm not intending to be a b!tch, but I don't really care right now. Why don't we just leave Kat be...there's no reason to be nasty to her as some of you ladies have been in this post. If you don't want to read her posts, there are ignore buttons you can use....I know I do.

To the OP....sounds like you already made up your mind about this situation, so good luck to you!

Have a great day everyone!

I am sure that you mean well. The problem is that Kat is creating a scare to some of the posters that are new here, and don't know any better than to let her advice go in one ear and out the other. Sure she needs to be able to vent, but she is so busy generalizing that it makes me wonder if there are people that have had a really great relationship ruined due to her stories of gloom and doom.

If someone was posting racist remarks would you speak up? Basically she is stating racist remarks towards Arab men, and everyone is tiptoeing around so as not to upset her because she has been through a lot. She has....I give you that. But the fact is that her remarks are racist when she states that a man from the MENA is after nothing but a visa. Kat needs to learn to channel her anger towards the ones that have hurt her, not towards people she has never met. In fact, she needs to control the anger and start to love herself enough to not allow anyone else to abuse her like she has allowed in the past.

I actually started a thread a few days ago because I am addicted to reading horror stories, and I am sabotaging a good thing, the best thing I have had in my life. This is the first relationship where I don't have a nagging feeling or red flags, and I don't know what to do sometimes...LOL Anyways, I think we should start a thread on the POSITIVE experiences people have had....and this wasn't my idea, someone else suggested it in my other thread.

Please, please, PLEASE forgive me, as I have been up since 4 am, and just got home from a very busy day, but which one is Kat?? I'm confused...and please, I am not usually this stupid if the answer is obvious....

See that is what I mean by Noobs not knowing who and what to listen too. Hanging in there is Kat. Of course if you hadn't been here long you wouldn't know that. So not a stupid question at all.

I actually started a thread a few days ago about how I read all the bad stories, and I start to worry, and of course, this causes problems between my so and I. Someone on there suggested we start a POSITIVE thread, about all the great and happy stories that are out there. I am an intelligent woman, but I tend to be a pessimist, so I do let these horror stories scare me...

Edited September 24, 2009 by tany1157

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I don't have but a minute, but I would like to say I am not outraged by anything. And I never said I was on "her side", I just think maybe she has been through enough without fellow women being nasty. Maybe I am, as my husband always tells me, too sensitive to others. I am old, fat and ugly and my hubby is Pali....but do I take offense to her posts, nope. Do I take offense to yours, nuh-uh, sure don't. I'm sorry I even said anything now. Anyhoo...I wanted to write something more profound, however I can't concentrate with a crying toddler and 2 month old.

God bless.

BTW....Astarte, you weren't really the person I had in mind when

I wrote my post, just so you know. Take care!

Thank you Angie.. I am really sorry I commented. I think I just have been through so much and seen so much and no one is talking about the flip side or the girls over the last year who have disappeared heartbroken over the last 3 years I have been here. No, not all will use you for papers. No not all situations turn out bad. But it is critically important to allow some kind of outlet for people to talk about warning signs,red flags and YES bad experiences.

I think after everything several of my friends have been through and yes myself to talk about different things. I think that guys before they come here should have a drivers license or studied the book. I think guys before they come here should really understand the financial situation of their spouse before they get here. I think there needs to be a contingency plan for the spouse ( aka the American wife) in case things go south because its very hard if you bring someone over here and you were really not understanding the huge burden you will take on your shoulders.

Do I think that some women are used as a boat? Absolutely. Is that racist? How can it be racist when there are names for it..? Its a part of life for many people from over there and its not just done in the USA. Its been done in Europe for many years and not just by MENA. I don't know a nice way to talk about this and maybe there is no real way to do it.

It really bothers alot of women because there is no place to talk about what happened to them or is happening to them.

I think if everything is going well, then its not a big deal.The only person who can decide whats ethical or right are the two people who are involved. I think I have made some mistakes while talking about the subject,maybe reacted out of grief or anger,maybe just been a dumbass about the way that I have approached things.. But you dont have to be a "bad wife or bad person" to get hurt. You just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with someone who really wants out of their situation. It doesnt mean part of them doesnt care about you, but when love wasnt the real pressure behind it to begin with, then bad things can happen.

Weight doesnt control it, age doesnt control it.. what controls it is the persons heart, coupled with culture and societal pressure. Someone could essentially be really happy being married to someone outside of the norm.. but outside influences such as family, not being able to have kids, other people can affect it.

I think the most important thing is besides my asinine comments, is that we have intelligent debate, conversation and talk about things as they happen. Some of the best teachers are women who have been through things. Its easy to blame them but I can make up a list of people I know are great people, including my daughters speech therapist ( YES SHE WAS MARRIED TO A MOROCCAN WHO USED HER) and she is amazing looking and smart and accomplished and she is STILL trying to get a divorce from him and he is 5 states away. Its easy to bash the victim, but when the body count is all around me, where can I talk about it? If we cant talk here, where can we talk

Sorry for offensive comments.. I ll try to be more civil

[Y's_habibitk 2]

Kat,

you were one of the first people on VJ to really get under my skin when I first joined the site and started reading in MENA. Im not saying that to be a b!tch, Im just making a point to say that this has been your "mission" to warn, for at least as long as I have been here (2 yrs). The fact that you have realized your sweeping gloom and doom comments are asinine shows growth. The problem is that like others have said, new people come in and read your comments and RUN with them. They dont know that you are bitter because you have been used many times by foriegn men, and Im guessing every man that you have ever chosen.

Im sorry for all that has happened to you and your family, but there comes a time when you have to take a look at yourself and say: what isnt working here and change it. your picker is broken...it consistently picks users and abusers.

You were preaching that all arabs and mena men were users when you were in your own visa journey with your last husband. I never quite understood how someone that is so bitter towards foriegn men could choose to do it again and expect different results. Another definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. The fact is that we are always the common denominator. If I have been in multiple bad relationships where the man is an abusive @sshole, well... I can blame myself for that because i REPEATEDLY choose those men, right?

So maybe you can "warn" these women by sharing YOUR experience, which is choosing men who are bad for you. If you share what you have done and what hasnt worked then they can take something positive away from that. Sharing your scary stereotyping stories of "friends" does nothing but harm people. Im saying the same thing that I have been saying to you for 2 years heh.. you once told me that I basically had no idea what I was talking about because "you're in your twenties" but now you are saying that age doesnt matter, thats good.

Some women will choose men that are bad for them no matter where they come from. When someone is truly being used, I think its RARE that they dont see any red flags. Women who continuously choose the wrong men have mastered the skill of ignoring red flags. its the same thing weather the man is 8000 miles away or next door. THAT is what women should consider when making this plunge, not where the man is from. Make smart decisions, be self aware and you will get good results 99% of the time.

ok, that was a long 2 cents

Edited September 25, 2009 by Y's_habibitk

[Ihavequestions 419]

Its easy to bash the victim, but when the body count is all around me, where can I talk about it? If we cant talk here, where can we talk

Like I said before, Kat, you should think about making new friends because your social circle is not good for you.

And, again, I sincerely hope you find peace and heal. I really do.

[anitacastillo 0]

Its easy to bash the victim, but when the body count is all around me, where can I talk about it? If we cant talk here, where can we talk

Like I said before, Kat, you should think about making new friends because your social circle is not good for you.

And, again, I sincerely hope you find peace and heal. I really do.

And focus on her children - how many different fathers?

[Angel Eyes Yuseef 5]

Hello, this may not be the right or best place to post this, but I am hoping that both men and women in successful and unsuccessful relationships can help me out. I am American and about 4 months ago I met a Moroccan man. My feelings for this man are growing deeply, and I know I am falling in love with him. I have read many posts on here of successful relationships and that gives me hope, but I also hear a lot of the bad relationships and that worries me. Unlike some on this site, he as been to the US before, and has lived her for years while going to school and also working, but returned to Morocco to be close to his family. From the very beginning this man has told me that he views the distance between us and a barrier, and over time he has expressed he has feelings for me, but does not want to promise me anything that he is not 100% sure he can do or give. He has not come out and told me he loves me, but again, has expressed that he does have deep feelings for me. One of the issues is that he does not want to return to the US, he liked his time here, but he feels he needs to be close to his family. Another issue is that I have children from a prior marriage, which he says isn't an issue personally, and every time we speak he asks about them. Over the past 4 months we have spoken every day, sometimes several times a day, via email, instant message, or phone calls, and I know when we chat online he is at home and not at an internet cafe. I have suggested to him a couple of times that if this between us became serious I would consider moving to Morrocco or to Europe (he is trying to move to France or somewhere in Europe in hopes of finding a better life, and again, he has family in France), but he insists that this cannot happen, my children would not get the education there like they do here in the states, he couldn't support all of us right now, and basically thinks I'm crazy because he says Morocco is a third world country, and people try their whole lives to get out, and I'm doing the opposite...he said he couldn't allow it, especially since I have children to think about, and it would be selfish of me to ruin their lives for my own happiness.

I have plans to visit him shortly and I'm starting to get nervous, I hear of all these horror stories and it honestly scares me. I don't think he's using me because he's not looking for a green card, he has made it very clear he doesn't want to come back here. Also, he is going through some financial hardships over there and I have offered to help him and he has refused, saying that it would be an embarrassement to him, and he would feel awful if he accepted money from me. But on the other hand, he has not told his family or friends about me, and sometimes when we talk he can seem very distant and at others he seems very sweet and loving. Also, he is Muslim and I am Christian, but he has told me this is not an issue, although I have been reading up on Islam on my own and already had some prior knowledge of it. But I have heard some say that Islam does not allow men/women to marry outside of their religion, so this is also a concern for me. I have also heard that Moroccan men believe in having multiple wives, or they are not faithful to their wife, so any claifiication on this would be great.

Also, shortly after we starting talking he told me that if I found someone in the states that I should not wait for him, and although he would be hurt, I should move on. But if I'm not home he wants to know what I'm doing, and if he thinks I'm with other men he gets very jealous (which I'm not), but on the other hand he's not ready to make that committment, I don't understand it. Also, he has told me that he is still a virgin, as he was taught that you wait for marriage before you have sex, and I told him I understand and repect that, so I don't think he's having me come out there just for sex either.

So I have plans to visit him in a couple of weeks, and I don't know what to expect there, from him or the people of Morocco. And I don't know if I'm waisting my time, so I was hoping that some of you could give me some advice and help me understand what is going on here, and what Moroccan men are like, and in your opinion is he trying to gain my trust only to use and hurt me down the road. If you guys think he is being honest and sincere, what do you suggest I do to prove to him that this can work (like I said, after reading all the success stories it give me real hope)...do I tell him that I love him, or will that push him away, or do I take a step back and let him come to me?

Also, if I decide to go forth with the trip, what suggestions do you have as far as keeping myself from getting sick (i.e drinking the water, eating certain foods), immunizations the US requires for travel there, can I exchange US money for Moroccan money at a bank, do people in the airport speak english, and what is appropriate clothing and behavior for women there (I'm guessing shorts is not a good idea)?

Sorry for such a long and lengthy post, but this culture is new to me, and I know that Moroccan men are different from US men, so I know I cannot compare his behavior to American men. But I feel like I have met my soul mate, he makes me feel complete, but love is blind, and sometimes we overlook the red flags because we want something so desperately. Your feedback, advice and suggestions are appreciated. Thank you

I know this is a real fear for you. And it should be. I can only go by what you said in this thread. But he seems to have every excuss to not be with you or to comment. So what is the rush to go to Morocco. I would hate to see you fall for a man that does not want you to move there and does not want to move to you, how can there be a relationship. The other members have pretty much cleared everything else up. Just think about it and talk to him and see if you can get some of this cleared up with him. You should be asking him and getting difinate answers from him.

[allousa 1]

(reluctantly wading in)

It's VERY hard for me to not comment about your past history here on VJ, Kat. I KNOW you've been through alot. Many of us have. But I clearly remember you targeting MY relationship simply because my husband was Palestinian and you all but told me that he was no good and out to use me. Do you recall that? I made no judgments on Algerian men when you were going through the process before your husband got over here. You were unhappy with him before he ever got here and many of us told you to just walk away.

The reason I stood by my husband during the immigration process is NOT because he was MENA, but I believed he is a good man. And after 9 years of marriage and a lot of ups and downs, I STILL believe he is a good man.....his culture, religion or land of origin have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. I'm still pissed off enough about what you said to not have forgotten it.

VJ is a place to get great information for the immigration process and a helpful community for making friends. But I don't believe it should be a vehicle by which if a person's relationship doesn't work out, that it's necessary to rub it in people's faces that the same thing will happen. Likewise, if a relationship DOES work out, don't rub it in the faces of the people whose relationships failed. Unless I have personal knowledge of what happened in a couple's marriage/relationship, I can't even begin to speculate what caused it's demise. Even after multiple postings by a person and all that they say, it's still one side of the story. It's just none of my business.

Whenever a person decides to put their personal life up on a public message board where ANYONE can comment on it....I'm sorry, but you open yourself up to alot. Certainly there are people that will respond in kind, but there are those that won't. And honestly, you can't stop those people from their thoughts and comments because after all it IS a message board that ALOT of people belong to. So, what you CAN control, is the information that you put out there.

Astarte gave the BEST advice I've ever heard about VJ and other message boards and it bears repeating....find one or two people that you can trust and let them be your confidant.

I have mine and I pay her lots of money each month to keep quiet!!!!!!!

[MrsAmera 41]

Yes - what she said!