visa journey is over for 23 aliens in cincinnati

[HAL 9000 96]

But seriously... out of the grand total of things, even these fraudulent cases make up a very small minority (as far as any here can know except those of us that know people that work in USCIS) of the total case load across all service centers.

Therefore, whining about fair-minded people getting pushed back to the end of the line by fraudsters isn't really a strong argument beyond seeing what we want to see.

I would posit that fraudulent cases are the primary reason for the current complexity and time-intensity of the immigration process. If there were no fraudulent cases, or if they represented an overwhelming minority of cases, I sincerely doubt the process would require as much paperwork and scrutiny as it does. So while these 23 aliens are unlikely to affect our particular cases, it is a fallacy to assume that continued discoveries of visa fraud will not contribute to making immigration to the US more complicated--just as the September 11th attacks dramatically changed the ways in which student and worker visas were issued to a sizable chunk of the world's population.

And I sincerely disagree with your speculation.

Matter of fact... hold that thought...

(several minutes have passed to alow for a phone call)

Uncle of mine is fairly involved in the process at USCIS on the inside. Fraudulent cases represent a small fraction of overall cases, as judged by positive/negative outcome. The time it takes to resolve between both types is negligible, ie, within the normal caseload processing times already present.

The only factor that controls processing time is the absolute number of incoming applications.

Furthermore- as already pointed out- ICE is a separate entity within USCIS that does not handle caseload documentation.

I understand your POV that the paperwork and interview process itself adds to the length of the process... but that is a complex issue that has fraud prevention as only one of a series of possible factors. Next, do remember, or become informed at this time, that employment visas and student visas are typically handled by separate adjudicator departments- or subcontractors in some cases, within USCIS. Finally... 'a sizable chunk of the world population' denotes significance. I highly recommend you search the meaning of this term, considering the size of the world population.

Although again, I do understand what it is you are stating regarding the possible implications for the process given tendencies of fraud in the process.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

and that's that

[k.loveh 0]

But seriously... out of the grand total of things, even these fraudulent cases make up a very small minority (as far as any here can know except those of us that know people that work in USCIS) of the total case load across all service centers.

Therefore, whining about fair-minded people getting pushed back to the end of the line by fraudsters isn't really a strong argument beyond seeing what we want to see.

I would posit that fraudulent cases are the primary reason for the current complexity and time-intensity of the immigration process. If there were no fraudulent cases, or if they represented an overwhelming minority of cases, I sincerely doubt the process would require as much paperwork and scrutiny as it does. So while these 23 aliens are unlikely to affect our particular cases, it is a fallacy to assume that continued discoveries of visa fraud will not contribute to making immigration to the US more complicated--just as the September 11th attacks dramatically changed the ways in which student and worker visas were issued to a sizable chunk of the world's population.

100% agree.

[spectheintro 18]

I understand your POV that the paperwork and interview process itself adds to the length of the process... but that is a complex issue that has fraud prevention as only one of a series of possible factors.

I suppose this point addresses the heart of the matter. What other factors would have spurred the dramatic increase in paperwork required for marriage-based immigration, besides fraud? I ask this out of genuine curiosity--it has been my impression that fraudulent visa attempts, as well as security concerns, have been the two primary motivations behind the growing complexity of the application process. My father was a permanent resident in the US in the 1960s; he married my mother and brought her back to America in, I think, a week. He remembers the process as being very simple and painless. Contrast this with my experience, as an American citizen, attempting to bring my wife to the US. Certainly I can understand the process taking longer; more people are trying to get into the US, plain and simple. But the process itself has dramatically changed, and I (still) suspect that fraudulent visa applications have a disproportionate impact on future decisions regarding that process.

Next, do remember, or become informed at this time, that employment visas and student visas are typically handled by separate adjudicator departments- or subcontractors in some cases, within USCIS.

I was not equating family-based immigration with student-based. I was merely stating that the September 11th attacks had a very dramatic effect on the issuance of student and worker visas. In a similar fashion, as I mentioned earlier, I believe fraudulent visa attempts have had a similarly disproportionate effect on the issuance of marriage visas.

Finally... 'a sizable chunk of the world population' denotes significance. I highly recommend you search the meaning of this term, considering the size of the world population.

How else would you describe 1 billion people? After September 11th, ANY applicant for a student or worker visa from a Muslim country was subjected to much more stringent criteria. In addition, certain fields of study or work were outright barred, and students/workers in those fields were told to change accordingly or have their visas revoked. The process began chiefly with Arab applicants, but was later extended to include India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Indonesia. I was attending university when this happened, and spoke with numerous exchange students who had to change their field of study in order to be allowed to stay. (Physics, chemistry, and nuclear sciences were the biggest culprits.) For some additional evidence:

"Overall, the three countries (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan) received 134,015 visas in 2000, before dipping to 34,781 in 2003, the lowest year in recent memory. Since then, the numbers have risen dramatically, to 109,878 last year, the first year of 100,000 or more visas since 2001. Those numbers represent an 18 percent drop from the peak year of 2000, but a near tripling since 2003. "

Now please don't mistake my statement of "a sizable chunk" to mean that I think 134K qualifies as that. But the population as a whole (i.e. Muslim countries) are screened much more thoroughly than before. Whether or not this is justified is absolutely not something I want to approach here--I just want to make note of how dramatically 9/11 changed things for students coming from those areas.

In any case, I would be interested to hear your uncle's perspective on the immigration process, and the rationale behind making the process more complicated, and/or why the 5-month processing timeframe was agreed upon. (Why not aim for 2 months, for example.)

[HAL 9000 96]

What other factors would have spurred the dramatic increase in paperwork required for marriage-based immigration, besides fraud?

Factors such as what previously were considered immigrant caps from most geographical areas. Ensuring that a bona-fide marriage was being entered in earnest, etc. Those, of course, more or less reduce themselves down to fraud prevention, true.

Contrast this with my experience, as an American citizen, attempting to bring my wife to the US. Certainly I can understand the process taking longer; more people are trying to get into the US, plain and simple.

Therein lies your answer. In your parents' time, we can safely agree that the magnitude of petitions was orders less than today, factoring in the amount of caseworkers available to handle the work adjusted procedures.

I was not equating family-based immigration with student-based. I was merely stating that the September 11th attacks had a very dramatic effect on the issuance of student and worker visas. In a similar fashion, as I mentioned earlier, I believe fraudulent visa attempts have had a similarly disproportionate effect on the issuance of marriage visas.

Indeed- you are not equating something that you are drawing procedural parallels on. Furthermore, if these parallels were to be accurate, the actual number of fraudulent petitions would have to be humongous in relation to the total pool of petitions. These are two independent populations of visa 'journeys.'

How else would you describe 1 billion people?/quote]

Applicants for visas to the USA?

I don't think so.

I completely agree with your profiling assessment, otoh. This is something I have seen working in academia although I have yet to see a single student from these countries have to abandon academia or their original physical sciences area of study. I write this as a scientist.

From the conversations on the topic with family in the system they merely restate the obvious you brought out. Profiling is a reality that is being dealt with in a very complicated yet direct manner. Nevertheless, other factors that impede the process for all other applicants from all other nations not directly implicated in 9-11 are also extremely important beyond the assumed reasons behind 9-11.

[Baltar 0]

I might be missing something, but why would they even bother with marriages to get in USA??

My marriage is real and yet shes still not here.. Its easier for them to just tourist visa around it.

[ScottThuy 140]

I might be missing something, but why would they even bother with marriages to get in USA??

My marriage is real and yet shes still not here.. Its easier for them to just tourist visa around it.

It takes a very long time to immigrate to the US legally.. marriage is the fastest...thats why.. if they stay on a tourist visa they cant stay legally.. they dont want to visit they want to stay here

[Baltar 0]

I might be missing something, but why would they even bother with marriages to get in USA??

My marriage is real and yet shes still not here.. Its easier for them to just tourist visa around it.

It takes a very long time to immigrate to the US legally.. marriage is the fastest...thats why.. if they stay on a tourist visa they cant stay legally.. they dont want to visit they want to stay here

but they can just file AOS on a tourist visa and get a greencard..

[ScottThuy 140]

I might be missing something, but why would they even bother with marriages to get in USA??

My marriage is real and yet shes still not here.. Its easier for them to just tourist visa around it.

It takes a very long time to immigrate to the US legally.. marriage is the fastest...thats why.. if they stay on a tourist visa they cant stay legally.. they dont want to visit they want to stay here

but they can just file AOS on a tourist visa and get a greencard..

no they cant.... it doesnt work that way... cant adjust status from tourist visa to green card...

[HAL 9000 96]

Indeed. Some folks on tourist visas understand this... meet their future spouses here while on the B visa... then return. Some can even go the K3 or CR1 route as long as they return to their country. And cases get approved. But going straight AOS from a B to LPR? Highly highly highly false.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thats messed up ! It's because of people like that that all of us who are in honest and true relationships have to endure long wait times to be reunited with our loved ones!

Nat

True. Wish they would apply the same logic to income tax. Since so many people cheat, maybe we should just get rid of it.

[LaL 418]

But going straight AOS from a B to LPR? Highly highly highly false.

? People adjust all the time from tourist visas, and it's not illegal or wrong to do so as long as the intent on entry wasn't to marry and stay.

[HAL 9000 96]

But going straight AOS from a B to LPR? Highly highly highly false.

? People adjust all the time from tourist visas, and it's not illegal or wrong to do so as long as the intent on entry wasn't to marry and stay.

You're right LaL. I meant on something obvious. My uncle warned me about this... if a B visa goes AOS... it is likely something wrong done in the examination of the evidence.

[LaL 418]

But going straight AOS from a B to LPR? Highly highly highly false.

? People adjust all the time from tourist visas, and it's not illegal or wrong to do so as long as the intent on entry wasn't to marry and stay.

You're right LaL. I meant on something obvious. My uncle warned me about this... if a B visa goes AOS... it is likely something wrong done in the examination of the evidence.

I am not following you.

[Mike B. 231]

Operation Honeymoon's Over

Awesome.