Gates: 'A few years' of combat in Afghanistan

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Remember when Cheney called anyone unpatriotic when they opposed Bush? Those same people are calling for Obama's head...

one of the Problems with Libs is; They start to believe their own -made up stuff-

PLease, I have asked for this before... show me where Cheney said "anyone who opposes Bush is unpatriotic".

No really.

One of the problems with you Danno, is your continued reliance on silly stereotypes.

I think that if you had to ditch them, you would find yourself with little to say.

[Ban Hammer 13,677]

Please knock off the mindless rhetoric... if you are unable to make a point without degrading opposing views perhaps silence would be the better option.

Now Charles we went around & around on this topic with the Pelosi thread... you & your cronies attacked me & hid behind the (largely irrelevent) distinction between politician & pundit, but you can't attack the message (that rhetoric, whether from the left or right, brings no value to a debate).

Separate the message from the messenger (you think I'm on a high horse and I think you're passive-aggressive). Doesn't mean I'm wrong about this particular topic.

you're missing what many of us have been telling you - quite often, your posts are the pot calling the kettle black.

And you are missing my point... forget about the messenger & focus on the message.

which i've been doing!

[Danno 1,228]

Remember when Cheney called anyone unpatriotic when they opposed Bush? Those same people are calling for Obama's head...

one of the Problems with Libs is; They start to believe their own -made up stuff-

PLease, I have asked for this before... show me where Cheney said "anyone who opposes Bush is unpatriotic".

No really.

One of the problems with you Danno, is your continued reliance on silly stereotypes.

I think that if you had to ditch them, you would find yourself with little to say.

While your comments were of "interest" (yawn), I failed to see a any proof that my contention about the "Cheney claim" was wrong.

Do you believe Cheney made the claim?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Remember when Cheney called anyone unpatriotic when they opposed Bush? Those same people are calling for Obama's head...

one of the Problems with Libs is; They start to believe their own -made up stuff-

PLease, I have asked for this before... show me where Cheney said "anyone who opposes Bush is unpatriotic".

No really.

One of the problems with you Danno, is your continued reliance on silly stereotypes.

I think that if you had to ditch them, you would find yourself with little to say.

While your comments were of "interest" (yawn), I failed to see a any proof that my contention about the "Cheney claim" was wrong.

Do you believe Cheney made the claim?

Doesn't that prove my point Danno, why is it that I am somehow expected to validate or refute the claims of another poster? Did I make the claim?

And to answer your question - offhand I don't know if Cheney himself said anything like that or not, though I do remember the "unamerican" card being used a lot during the last administration against opposition politicians.

I do however remember that Cheney making a comment during the 2004 election to the effect that if the Democrats won that this would somehow be good for the terrorists.

[nowhereman 1]

Remember when Cheney called anyone unpatriotic when they opposed Bush? Those same people are calling for Obama's head...

one of the Problems with Libs is; They start to believe their own -made up stuff-

PLease, I have asked for this before... show me where Cheney said "anyone who opposes Bush is unpatriotic".

No really.

One of the problems with you Danno, is your continued reliance on silly stereotypes.

I think that if you had to ditch them, you would find yourself with little to say.

While your comments were of "interest" (yawn), I failed to see a any proof that my contention about the "Cheney claim" was wrong.

Do you believe Cheney made the claim?

Doesn't that prove my point Danno, why is it that I am somehow expected to validate or refute the claims of another poster? Did I make the claim?

And to answer your question - offhand I don't know if Cheney himself said anything like that or not, though I do remember the "unamerican" card being used a lot during the last administration against opposition politicians.

I do however remember that Cheney making a comment during the 2004 election to the effect that if the Democrats won that this would somehow be good for the terrorists.

I will have to do some research to see exactly what Cheney said, but like Pike stated you are missing the point (again). I asked you guys to please knock off the labeling & stereotyping and what do I get? You calling me a "lib" and lucky throwing around the "socialist" tag (he must get a nickel every time he writes that... if so he's halfway to retirement). The point is that the constant rhetoric, labeling & stereotyping (both nationally & on VJ) has no useful purpose & only serves to further divide everyone into two groups. Please try to focus on the big picture & not the minutiae.

[mawilson 2,133]

We broke it we bought it - simple as that really.

We didn't "break" Afghanistan. When was it not broken?

[HAL 9000 96]

We broke it we bought it - simple as that really.

We didn't "break" Afghanistan. When was it not broken?

Well the Taliban were kind of friendly with the Bush Sr. admin when the topic of trade came up. And before that they didn't have it that bad back in the 50s if I believe the articles I've read on how their King was moving things towards a democracy that was more representative than even ours was at the same time.

[DEDixon 39]

If you keep using these stupid labels then you will never get to the truth. A lot of people apposed the idea of going to war with Iraq because they did not believe the government rhetoric that there was any justification for it - but a lot (I would say a majority) of those self same people also did NOT want to see the Americans pull out after they fvcked the country up. Seriously, no point in this discourse if you just use the term liberal to describe pacifists, completely useless and pointless.

A lot of people most of which were liberals.

I live 30 miles from San Francisco and fewer miles from Berkeley so there is great distinction. I know who was protesting the war the most.

They DID want us to pull out of Iraq at any cost. WOW, I'm amazed how memories are so short. I'm on the front lines here in liberalville, I know what I was hearing and reading.

[NickD 203]

Was on the road again yesterday listening to the experts that don't have a say in Washington on Afghanistan. Will never be a democratic society until every little warlord in any area or stinking little town is eliminated that tells his people exactly how to vote.

The Taliban welcomes more US troops, the more the troops the more the targets, they like that. Our greatest influence over there is to buy votes to get the leadership we think would be the best. Polls are extremely inaccurate, there outcome is also based on purchasing opinions. Taliban is threatening to cut off the hands of anyone going out to vote. Our military presence there is preventing the UN from providing aid. No one in our government is accurately determining if our presence there is doing more good than harm.

Plenty of experts on practically all subjects on WPS, but just all talk, can only wonder why these experts are not in Washington and can only wonder if some of our Washington guys are cleaning up on the drug trade.

So exactly what the hell are we doing there? Afghanistan was compared to the warlords in Italy which was one of the key reasons my grandfather came here. Said it took over 200 years to get that corrected and was done by the Italians without outside help. So do we want to spend the next 200 years in Afghanistan? But with us there, may take 600 years.

[nowhereman 1]

If you keep using these stupid labels then you will never get to the truth. A lot of people apposed the idea of going to war with Iraq because they did not believe the government rhetoric that there was any justification for it - but a lot (I would say a majority) of those self same people also did NOT want to see the Americans pull out after they fvcked the country up. Seriously, no point in this discourse if you just use the term liberal to describe pacifists, completely useless and pointless.

A lot of people most of which were liberals.

I live 30 miles from San Francisco and fewer miles from Berkeley so there is great distinction. I know who was protesting the war the most.

They DID want us to pull out of Iraq at any cost. WOW, I'm amazed how memories are so short. I'm on the front lines here in liberalville, I know what I was hearing and reading.

Dixon do you read at all or just spit out whatever comes to mind? Approximately 70% of Americans believed we shouldn't have started a war in Iraq... that's about 50% non-liberals. You ignorance & stereotying makes you look really bad.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Don't worry, the fact that these same LEFT WINGERS label us as RIGHT WINGERS, and "YOU GUYS", "YOU PEOPLE" doesn't go un-noticed. They use labels just the same (if not more than) as we do.

See i didn't say liberals, or socialist. I expect not to be accused of using labels now. (wishful thinking, I know)

The reason the left doesnt' like those labels is because they are true and they can't handle the truth.

This "label" BS is just a red herring for them to take focus off what you actually said. They do it to me all the time here, and elected LEFT WINGERS do the exact same thing. Take the attention off the substance and get bent out of shape when someone calls you the "Democrat" party. I'd say "whine to someone who cares" but they aren't really whining; just throwing up yet another red herring. Its what they are best at, because they can never ACTUALLY refute conservatism.

If you keep using these stupid labels then you will never get to the truth. A lot of people apposed the idea of going to war with Iraq because they did not believe the government rhetoric that there was any justification for it - but a lot (I would say a majority) of those self same people also did NOT want to see the Americans pull out after they fvcked the country up. Seriously, no point in this discourse if you just use the term liberal to describe pacifists, completely useless and pointless.

A lot of people most of which were liberals.

I live 30 miles from San Francisco and fewer miles from Berkeley so there is great distinction. I know who was protesting the war the most.

They DID want us to pull out of Iraq at any cost. WOW, I'm amazed how memories are so short. I'm on the front lines here in liberalville, I know what I was hearing and reading.

Dixon do you read at all or just spit out whatever comes to mind? Approximately 70% of Americans believed we shouldn't have started a war in Iraq... that's about 50% non-liberals. You ignorance & stereotying makes you look really bad.

I believe some of your numbers are inaccurate. Please substantiate them.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Joseph & Ana

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The reason you use labels, Joe is because you deal in prepackaged arguments. Nothing you say if even halfway original, as in *your own* opinion - but rather a stale mixture of party political soundbites and op ed #######.

The only reason you object to this being pointed out is that it takes away anything you've got to say.

[nowhereman 1]

Don't worry, the fact that these same LEFT WINGERS label us as RIGHT WINGERS, and "YOU GUYS", "YOU PEOPLE" doesn't go un-noticed. They use labels just the same (if not more than) as we do.

See i didn't say liberals, or socialist. I expect not to be accused of using labels now. (wishful thinking, I know)

The reason the left doesnt' like those labels is because they are true and they can't handle the truth.

This "label" BS is just a red herring for them to take focus off what you actually said. They do it to me all the time here, and elected LEFT WINGERS do the exact same thing. Take the attention off the substance and get bent out of shape when someone calls you the "Democrat" party. I'd say "whine to someone who cares" but they aren't really whining; just throwing up yet another red herring. Its what they are best at, because they can never ACTUALLY refute conservatism.

If you keep using these stupid labels then you will never get to the truth. A lot of people apposed the idea of going to war with Iraq because they did not believe the government rhetoric that there was any justification for it - but a lot (I would say a majority) of those self same people also did NOT want to see the Americans pull out after they fvcked the country up. Seriously, no point in this discourse if you just use the term liberal to describe pacifists, completely useless and pointless.

A lot of people most of which were liberals.

I live 30 miles from San Francisco and fewer miles from Berkeley so there is great distinction. I know who was protesting the war the most.

They DID want us to pull out of Iraq at any cost. WOW, I'm amazed how memories are so short. I'm on the front lines here in liberalville, I know what I was hearing and reading.

Dixon do you read at all or just spit out whatever comes to mind? Approximately 70% of Americans believed we shouldn't have started a war in Iraq... that's about 50% non-liberals. You ignorance & stereotying makes you look really bad.

I believe some of your numbers are inaccurate. Please substantiate them.

Calling the VJ Right "you guys" is completely different than labeling people "liberals" or "socialists". First of all "you guys" is not meant as an insult, but your labels definitely are. Secondly "you guys" refers to a group of posters that basically say the same thing, but liberal & socialist is based on what you believe other people's opinions are. For example I'm a registered independent & my views on the issues do not run along party lines (e.g. my views on foreign policy lean right & my views on the environment lean left). What irritates the ####### out of me though is the incessant labeling, stereotyping & misinformation that you see over & over on VJ. I focus my efforts on the VJ Right because I see a lot more of the BS coming from that camp. Yes it comes from both sides but it's a fire hose of BS from the Right and a garden hose from the Left.

As for proving my numbers first of all "you guys" hardly ever produce statistics, as you rely on mindless rhetoric to make your point. If you want proof just hit google, it's easy to find. Furthermore you use the term "red herring" a lot & its obvious you don't have a clue about what it means. While you're on google look that up as well.

Edited August 21, 2009 by nowhereman

[DEDixon 39]

Calling the VJ Right "you guys" is completely different than labeling people "liberals" or "socialists". First of all "you guys" is not meant as an insult, but your labels definitely are. Secondly "you guys" refers to a group of posters that basically say the same thing, but liberal & socialist is based on what you believe other people's opinions are. For example I'm a registered independent & my views on the issues do not run along party lines (e.g. my views on foreign policy lean right & my views on the environment lean left). What irritates the ####### out of me though is the incessant labeling, stereotyping & misinformation that you see over & over on VJ. I focus my efforts on the VJ Right because I see a lot more of the BS coming from that camp. Yes it comes from both sides but it's a fire hose of BS from the Right and a garden hose from the Left.

As for proving my numbers first of all "you guys" hardly ever produce statistics, as you rely on mindless rhetoric to make your point. If you want proof just hit google, it's easy to find. Furthermore you use the term "red herring" a lot & its obvious you don't have a clue about what it means. While you're on google look that up as well.

There is the problem. I have no problem with political labels. Call me a right winger, a neocon, a conservative or whatever, it doesn't bother me at all and I do not consider it an insult. I am to a degree all of these things and to a degree I am not. I wear these label like a badge and feel perfectly fine.

Since I have no problem with political labels I never gave it a thought that liberals didn't like, didn't want to be labeled liberals or that a liberal would be insulted with the label.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think anyone would have a problem being lumped together as part of some amorphous group and their views assumed on the basis of the group and not what they themselves actually believe.

Its just divisive BS to hide the fact that people like this Joseph & Ana character aren't interested in individual opinion, and more to the point that they can't cope with it or otherwise respond to it in any way that doesn't include preconceived ideas.

Then when you point it out - there's some mealy-mouthed relativist bullshit about the equality of opinions.