Gates: 'A few years' of combat in Afghanistan

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The protests aren't getting covered Pike, because they have to paint this President in a favorable light. Any protests would reflect negatively on the leadership. Whether he started the wars or not, he is at the helm now, and owns these conflicts. They are no more or less relevant to current events than they were when they started, but the media wants to focus on all the "positive" now that the guy they want is in power. I am not saying that Bush did everything i agree with, but the media should not be this biased when it comes to things like that. I am talking about network media (which is where a huge block of media viewership is.). Any president should be scrutinized.

Healthcare reform and the economic recovery are "fresh" stories. The war isn't. It doesn't have anything to do with Obama - and if you actually look back you will find that coverage of the war declined drastically after General Petraeus reported on the troop surge. It certainly wasn't a frontline issue during the latter stages of the election - because by September '08, the economy had already started to tank. Both McCain and Obama had to change their campaign messages slightly to reflect this with the result that the war was downplayed as a frontline issue.

Certainly the war was less of an issue in the 2008 election than it was in the 2004.

The only way the war would become a big story is if something happened at one of the protests - like police using rubber bullets on demonstrators.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

You're definitely right. Another issue came along that was much easier for them to direct the outcome of the election.

[DEDixon 39]

Dixon a lot of Americans (including a significant number of non-liberals, for the record) protested the Iraq War because they felt the intel was trumped up & that there wasn't a valid reason to invade Iraq (Cheney himself recently admitted there was no credible link between 9/11 and Iraq). However there was a strong connection established between the Taliban & Afghanistan and that's why there were much fewer protests concerning the war in Afghanistan. To characterize Afghanistan as "Obama's war" simply doesn't reflect reality... it was Bush's war as well.

However regardless of the reasons (or lack thereof) that we went to Iraq & Afghanistan we need to insure that our efforts were not in vain. I served in Iraq & I personally knew soldiers who died there. I like to think that their deaths meant something & at this point it is up to President Obama to make sure they do.

Okay, I won't b$tch about the lack of protests.

I can, however b$tch about waring where it doesn't make sense. We should leave Afghanistan especially since NATO hasn't pitched in with dollars and personnel to the degree that we have. If we leave, it will no doubt allow the Taliban more opportunity to plan attacks in Europe more than in the USA so if European countries aren't interested in the war, given our homeland is a lot further away, we should leave.

We should not be starting "ANEW" in the country of rocks and rubble if countries way more vulnerable than our own aren't interested in helping.

I still personally believe, whether it is true or not, that the war can't be won and that the US is there just to keep the Taliban preoccupied there rather than, if we were not there, freely able to plan attacks elsewhere.

This is Obama's war now especially since he is in favor of staying there to start "ANEW." If he were planning an end and thus reducing troops, I'd refer to it as Bush's war.

[Peikko 1,575]

The UN is there.

The biggest problem is, as I see it, is that no one really has a plan as to what exactly they want to achieve and nor is there a consensus among the occupying forces (or whatever one wants to call the US/UN/UK forces) as to how they might set about achieving it beyond this general notion that Afghanistan needs to be stabilized and the areas of lawlessness where 'terrorists' are trained eliminated. Really, there isn't a military solution for the military to achieve. The solution has to be one which addresses the concerns of ordinary Afghans that have led to the 'need' for a Taliban. If that can be done, then fighting the Taliban becomes moot.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Personally I think its scandalous to blow the $hit out of a country, then piss off and leave the people to pick up the pieces.

[Peikko 1,575]

Well, to be fair, it wasn't only the American's who did that.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

I'm glad someone that leans left actually sees what would happen if we just picked up and left.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm glad someone that leans left actually sees what would happen if we just picked up and left.

I think a *lot* of people do, I don't know why you have this need to polarise everything into need little compartments.

I never bought the bullshit reasons that got us into this mess.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

ooo don't say "lot" - you might offend those not included there.

[nowhereman 1]

ooo don't say "lot" - you might offend those not included there.

A "lot" of Americans want us to leave Afghanistan & Iraq... left, center & right. The reasons vary... some feel we shouldn't have gone to one or both in the first place, some feel one or both is unwinnable & some feel that we should stop acting like the world police.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yeah its not a cut and dried issue by any means.

[DEDixon 39]

ooo don't say "lot" - you might offend those not included there.

A "lot" of Americans want us to leave Afghanistan & Iraq... left, center & right. The reasons vary... some feel we shouldn't have gone to one or both in the first place, some feel one or both is unwinnable & some feel that we should stop acting like the world police.

Point throughout this thread is that even though you want to spread this across the political spectrum, the left, the liberals were definitely the majority who wanted the USA to get out of Iraq immediately. As I stated, I live real close to Liberalville and I know what their demands were. They wanted the US to drop and run. The woman who lead the protest outside Bush's ranch had a huge following - they wanted the war to end immediately.

Moveon.org promoted withdrawing from Iraq immediately.

You are also mixing up time frames. If, as you say, conservatives wanted us out of Iraq in the same way the liberals did, Bush would not have been reelected. As time passed, middle of the road types also wanted us out of Iraq. Very few die-hard conservatives have ever wanted us to leave Iraq immediately. If this were true, again, Bush would not have been reelected and McCain would have been a lame duck candidate many months before November since he was all for staying in Iraq.

I could go get all the evidence, but I know that the left and the right on here always dismiss what isn't in their favor. No matter how much evidence I produced, it would not be enough or in some way it would be belittled. I know already that my effort would be a complete waste of time.

[nowhereman 1]

ooo don't say "lot" - you might offend those not included there.

A "lot" of Americans want us to leave Afghanistan & Iraq... left, center & right. The reasons vary... some feel we shouldn't have gone to one or both in the first place, some feel one or both is unwinnable & some feel that we should stop acting like the world police.

Point throughout this thread is that even though you want to spread this across the political spectrum, the left, the liberals were definitely the majority who wanted the USA to get out of Iraq immediately. As I stated, I live real close to Liberalville and I know what their demands were. They wanted the US to drop and run. The woman who lead the protest outside Bush's ranch had a huge following - they wanted the war to end immediately.

Moveon.org promoted withdrawing from Iraq immediately.

You are also mixing up time frames. If, as you say, conservatives wanted us out of Iraq in the same way the liberals did, Bush would not have been reelected. As time passed, middle of the road types also wanted us out of Iraq. Very few die-hard conservatives have ever wanted us to leave Iraq immediately. If this were true, again, Bush would not have been reelected and McCain would have been a lame duck candidate many months before November since he was all for staying in Iraq.

I could go get all the evidence, but I know that the left and the right on here always dismiss what isn't in their favor. No matter how much evidence I produced, it would not be enough or in some way it would be belittled. I know already that my effort would be a complete waste of time.

Nope I think you have a point & believe it or not I try to look at information objectively so unless it came from some nut job source I wouldn't dismiss it. In fact the sources I used even showed how Bush had something like an 80% approval rating at one time in regards to the Iraq war, but as you said the support eroded over time (ending up in the 30% ball park).

[DEDixon 39]

The UN is there.

The UN is there.

Is the UN NATO? I don't think so. But, no matter that you said UN when I said NATO, you missed the "to the same degree" part of my post and that is a big big big deal!!! OMG, it is the meat of my post!!!!!

Neither organization is there to any degree close to the USA and given the Taliban and AQ are not only enemies of us, but enemies of Europe and enemies of even themselves when they have no one else to fight, a lot more countries should be ponying up for the fight.