Why is 'Socialism' such a dirty word in the USA?

[HAL 9000 96]

Those are tears of happiness on my face.

[LaL 418]

One of the biggest reasons many people don't want a NHS is we have seen how incompetent the government is and know better than to put them in charge of our health care.

How do you account for medicare then?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I really don't understand the ingrained suspicion of government. I thought "we" were the government - so in effect what's being said is that people don't trust themselves?

[HAL 9000 96]

Ok it seems this thread has turned into a "let b1tch about how bad America is" thread. Seems to happen alot here at VJ, although the original poster led it in that direction with the spend money on war and not health comment. We also have the Aussie telling us how great his country is, how cute.

One of the biggest reasons many people don't want a NHS is we have seen how incompetent the government is and know better than to put them in charge of our health care.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism you know.

[Heracles 417]

As I say, it seems that if you fall in this country - you fall a heck of lot further than you would somewhere else and there's no safety net.

The sky's the limit though - at least, that's what people say...

The question is how do people move up here? How does someone living on the street or in crime cesspools get an education? Hows does this person get a loan to learn a trade or open up a small business? You don't. As critical as I have been over the years, I always falsely assumed we were like Aus, Canada or the UK and provided adequate assistance yet these guys chose to turn to crime and loiter. I am still critical of the culture in poor communities (black or white), however, we have invested little to nothing to change that. Simple example, we don't have programs to help them move to areas that have jobs. The rich have fostered a culture of crime and drugs as a side-effect of not giving a ######.

The irony is that the same people who don't give ####### about them what to build up China's middle class to expand their customer base for their business. How about expanding your own you? Moving the 60+ million Americans into middle class so they too can become people who pay into the system rather than feed off it. I will never buy the excuse that people actually want to live poor or in section 8. As I pointed out earlier, China and everyone else is trying to build up their middle class, as the middle class is what builds a country. The massive migration of Americans post WWII into becoming middle class is what built this country too. It's in every international business book out there and is backed my academic research.

Instead of trying to police and improve the world, how about America work on their own first. That's not socialism, that's common sense.

[Peikko 1,575]

I really don't understand the ingrained suspicion of government. I thought "we" were the government - so in effect what's being said is that people don't trust themselves?

The US created their own preferred style of government with the necessary evil of taxes but yet still treat it with the suspicion they reserved for the governments they left behind in the 'old countries', and the taxes they fought to rid themselves of. It's a paradox. No wonder the US citizen is confused

[My Name Is Nobody 3]

I really don't understand the ingrained suspicion of government. I thought "we" were the government - so in effect what's being said is that people don't trust themselves?

You have been asking about "we the people" lately. This is what you are seeing in the town hall meetings. The people are more pissed about our elected officials ignoring their voices than they are about the health care.

They are trying to take "we" back from the "me" (politician). We dont trust ourselves because we have no say anymore.

[Tinkerbell TX 0]

Instead of trying to police and improve the world, how about America work on their own first. That's not socialism, that's common sense.

well, there's something I can agree on. We shouldn't be giving boatloads of financial aid to other countries when we could be using that here.

[Heracles 417]

I really don't understand the ingrained suspicion of government. I thought "we" were the government - so in effect what's being said is that people don't trust themselves?

They vote in clowns and then claim they don't trust the government. Maybe the should ask for a politician's resume prior to voting for them, that is, rather than basing decisions on their ideology, 'promises' or charisma. Second of all, the inefficiency in the government here is a fundamental flaw in the system itself; in the way the government is run and who is held accountable or not. Every county here has a school system, police, courts etc, which is a waste of money. Unlike Canada, Australia on the other hand has states rights like the US too. However, counties only have planning rights. They neither handle taxes, schools or the police. The state handles that, therefore, they realize economies of scale and reduce bureaucracy. Win win for all.

Paying government employees well while holding them accountable, much like in any private sector job, works well overseas.

Edited August 12, 2009 by haza

[Peikko 1,575]

That makes no sense.

Oh dear, time passed, and posts intervened, but it was aimed at Nobody

[HAL 9000 96]

I fear that those lunatic screamers will end up on the wrong end of a public electoral backlash against such dirty politics that indeed, are undemocratic indeed, as they are drowning out those that have actual, legitimate, and rational issues with the politicians.

Instead of trying to police and improve the world, how about America work on their own first. That's not socialism, that's common sense.

well, there's something I can agree on. We shouldn't be giving boatloads of financial aid to other countries when we could be using that here.

Actually... I read somewhere that foreign aid from the US was somewhere less than 2-5% of our total budget.

[_Simpson_ 250]

One of the biggest reasons many people don't want a NHS is we have seen how incompetent the government is and know better than to put them in charge of our health care.

How do you account for medicare then?

How do you account for social security?

Ok it seems this thread has turned into a "let b1tch about how bad America is" thread. Seems to happen alot here at VJ, although the original poster led it in that direction with the spend money on war and not health comment. We also have the Aussie telling us how great his country is, how cute.

One of the biggest reasons many people don't want a NHS is we have seen how incompetent the government is and know better than to put them in charge of our health care.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism you know.

You call that constructive criticism?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I say, it seems that if you fall in this country - you fall a heck of lot further than you would somewhere else and there's no safety net.

The sky's the limit though - at least, that's what people say...

The question is how do people move up here? How does someone living on the street or in crime cesspools get an education? Hows does this person get a loan to learn a trade or open up a small business? You don't. As critical as I have been over the years, I always falsely assumed we were like Aus, Canada or the UK and provided adequate assistance yet these guys chose to turn to crime and loiter. I am still critical of the culture in poor communities (black or white), however, we have invested little to nothing to change that. Simple example, we don't have programs to help them move to areas that have jobs. The rich have fostered a culture of crime and drugs as a side-effect of not giving a ######.

The irony is that the same people who don't give ####### about them what to build up China's middle class to expand their customer base for their business. How about expanding your own you? Moving the 60+ million Americans into middle class so they too can become people who pay into the system rather than feed off it. I will never buy the excuse that people actually want to live poor or in section 8. As I pointed out earlier, China and everyone else is trying to build up their middle class, as the middle class is what builds a country. The massive migration of Americans post WWII into becoming middle class is what built this country too. It's in every international business book out there and is backed my academic research.

Instead of trying to police and improve the world, how about America work on their own first. That's not socialism, that's common sense.

Without opening up that whole can of worms - the thinking behind things like Affirmative Action is precisely because there is at least some recognition on the part of government that we have a social system where the people who occupy the bottom of the ladder are essentially kept there. If that wasn't the case - then it wouldn't be say black/hispanic inner city communities that are always on the bottom of the socio-economic scale.

Clearly its problematic in a lot of ways - economics is tied more or less directly to social class and a lot of race-related issues are driven by this.

There's also a foreign policy component to this - in that its always been in the best interests of imperialist nations to maintain the status quo of other countries that would otherwise threaten our strategic (and economic) interests. So if you're getting cheap oil from Iran, for example, and you find out that the president is planning to nationalise the oil supply in order to build the country's infrastructure - you take steps to ensure that president is replaced by compliant dictator.

That's basically what geopolitics is about - and is the reason for nearly every war, coup and other military intervention that the US has been involved in since WW2.

[My Name Is Nobody 3]

I really don't understand the ingrained suspicion of government. I thought "we" were the government - so in effect what's being said is that people don't trust themselves?

They vote in clowns and then claim they don't trust the government. Maybe the should ask for a politician's resume prior to voting for them, rather than basing it on their ideology, 'promises' or song and dance. Second of all the inefficiency in government is the flaw in the system itself. Every county has a school system, police, courts etc. Which is a waste of money. Unlike Canada, Australia has states rights like the US. Counties on the other hand, only have planning rights. They neither handle taxes, schools or the police. The state handles that, therefore, they realize economies of scale and reduce bureaucracy. Win win for all. Paying government employees well while holding them accountable, much like in any private sector job, works well overseas.

I agree. I think whats going on now will cause a major blood bath in the 2010 elections. In both political parties. The American people give their politicians plenty of rope up to a certain point. I think the point is being reached and you will see the results in 2010. I think finally after 20 -25 years they will clean house at the voting boths.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I really don't understand the ingrained suspicion of government. I thought "we" were the government - so in effect what's being said is that people don't trust themselves?

You have been asking about "we the people" lately. This is what you are seeing in the town hall meetings. The people are more pissed about our elected officials ignoring their voices than they are about the health care.

They are trying to take "we" back from the "me" (politician). We dont trust ourselves because we have no say anymore.

But isn't that the point - the politicians come *from* the people. We don't like who we have, but we have the option of electing replacements to better represent our interests. In reality of course, what happens is that you get an entrenched poltical class (and multi-generational political dynasties like the Kennedy's and the Bush's), but why are people so apathetic about the two party system that they'll simply keep on playing the game over and over again.

I mean - that's the definition of insanity right - Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Edited August 12, 2009 by Private Pike