Wrinkle in the marriage law? Please explain.

[rsn 135]

I wouldn't even think about getting married there, even an unofficial marriage and then omitting that information from Immigration (Embassy in this case). If anybody suggested that, keep in mind it's against the rules of VJ.

You don't want to start your new life with a lie.... remember, I-129F is only the 1st step...there will be other forms to file later on....

Either get married there and then file for a spousal visa, or press on with your I-129 and then get married here (civil), go to Peru after AP and marry there in Church.

That's my 2 cents.

Joe.

Relax. No one has suggested the OP do anything illegal or immoral. While I wouldn't suggest it, there is nothing illegal about having a non-legally binding wedding and not informing the embassy about it.

[BluesTraveler 0]

I just dont understand this requirement of having to be married in the US. does anyone know why you must be married in the US? I mean what does it matter to them where you actually get married?

The USA's scheme to help all of the poor justice of peace's get some extra income.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

In Peru, if a couple only gets married in church, and does not follow through with marrying in a civil ceremony, are they still considered legally married? If the church ceremony is considered a legal marriage, then it would not be an option for you to do before the K-1 visa interview, and before you fiancee is issued the visa. Many in your situation have used he K-1, came to the states married and then planned a larger church ceremony for the family 'back home' at a later date. It is the more sure route, IMO.

WORD. Also to consider is that most churches will not allow you to get "married" without the civil marriage being performed first. In Mexico, it is against the law to do so.

[Kinito_2k3 5]

In Peru, if a couple only gets married in church, and does not follow through with marrying in a civil ceremony, are they still considered legally married? If the church ceremony is considered a legal marriage, then it would not be an option for you to do before the K-1 visa interview, and before you fiancee is issued the visa. Many in your situation have used he K-1, came to the states married and then planned a larger church ceremony for the family 'back home' at a later date. It is the more sure route, IMO.

WORD. Also to consider is that most churches will not allow you to get "married" without the civil marriage being performed first. In Mexico, it is against the law to do so.

That's a very good point - it's the same in France. I would check that first!

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

So, my fiancee and I filed for the i-129f. According to the timelines, it should be adjudicated around early September. Thats fine and good. We understand that we must be married within 90 days of her arrival here.

However, she is very close to her family and it just tears her apart to get married here without them. Like most South Americans, they are Catholic. They typically have one "religious" ceremony, getting married in the eyes of God. Additionally, they'll have the civil ceremony, being married in the eyes of the law.

Our question is can I go down there and get married to her in the Catholic church, understanding that we cannot be "legally" married when she arrives into the USA. Then, at some point within the 90 days of her arrival, we can do the civil ceremony here in the USA and fulfill the obligation.

Thanks in advance everyone.

With a K-1 visa you cannot be legally married before she arrives...period. You could get married there and then file for a CR-1 but that takes longer and obviously speed and convenience trump religious belief.

That said, why would her Catholic family be satisfied with a "fake" Catholic wedding and what Catholic clergyman would participate in such a farce? Better to have her come here, have a civil ceremony and THEN have the Catholic wedding, at least then it is truly a valid marriage. Seems strange that someone with a "strong" belief would participate and be satisfied with something which must be engineered not to be "legal and valid" Just sayin'

In Ukraine, where religious marriage is not recognized by the law, the religious couples all go for the civil marriage first and THEN go to the church, so the church has the "last word" so to speak. Usually both are done the same day. No one is invited to the civil ceremony and it is more or less done "in secret" to give it as little personal/family recognition to it as possible.

I'm not sure why you'd assume that any ceremony not resulting in a legal contract was a farce. There are certain aspects of a wedding ceremony that are important to the state and those aspects are clearly spelled out in marriage laws. If they are included then a binding civil contract ensues.

There are other aspects important to religious organizations and cultures. Do priests refuse to participate in renewal of vows ceremonies because no actual marriage takes place, thereby making it a farce by your definition? In my experience, many priests have participated in those "farces."

I would sit down with family and whatever religious person is involved and asked what aspects of a "wedding ceremony" can be performed without invoking the legal definition of a marriage TO THE STATE. I think it is highly likely that a priest can bless this couple and have a ceremony/celebration of blessing that does not include the legal aspects that invoke civil marriage. Having a blessing ceremony may make her family feel much more comfortable about her leaving. If, in their heart, they choose to believe they witnessed their daughter's wedding than why would we want to tell them that is any more farcical than any other religious ceremony. Is there really some magic voodoo that occurs at a "real" wedding that couldn't be invoked at a "blessing ceremony?"

I would talk to family and their religious person about holding a blessing ceremony after visa is in hand but before you leave for the US. Be sure that the blessing ceremony doesn't contain the required elements to constitute the contract of marriage. If mom wants to tell Aunt Bessie it's a wedding, that is mom's business. Immigration can't regulate what kind of celebration you have beyond it not constituting a marriage in the eyes of the law. If it constitutes a marriage to Mom and Aunt Bessie, that doesn't invalidate your K1 visa. (To the OP) Learn the required legal elements of a marriage. I believe they ALL must happen to constitute a marriage, so if SOME of them happen, it isn't a marriage. I would check the laws in her country and in the US to be sure you aren't legally married by anyone's definition.

If you don't get legally married, your K1 visa is perfectly valid. Can anyone link to a K1 denied entry because they had some non-wedding celebration before leaving for the US?

[DanielParul 50]

If you don't get legally married, your K1 visa is perfectly valid. Can anyone link to a K1 denied entry because they had some non-wedding celebration before leaving for the US?

There are infact plenty of couples who have had to face a K1 denial without being legally married but they had a ceremony and that in the eyes of the CO still constituted marriage.

Also not a good idea to have the ceremony and then hide it at the interview. That would be lying. Definately not a good way to start immigration process.

To the OP - If getting married in your fiancee's home country is so important, maybe you could get married there and file for a spouse visa. Just a thought.

[Nik+Heather 121]

So, my fiancee and I filed for the i-129f. According to the timelines, it should be adjudicated around early September. Thats fine and good. We understand that we must be married within 90 days of her arrival here.

However, she is very close to her family and it just tears her apart to get married here without them. Like most South Americans, they are Catholic. They typically have one "religious" ceremony, getting married in the eyes of God. Additionally, they'll have the civil ceremony, being married in the eyes of the law.

Our question is can I go down there and get married to her in the Catholic church, understanding that we cannot be "legally" married when she arrives into the USA. Then, at some point within the 90 days of her arrival, we can do the civil ceremony here in the USA and fulfill the obligation.

Thanks in advance everyone.

With a K-1 visa you cannot be legally married before she arrives...period. You could get married there and then file for a CR-1 but that takes longer and obviously speed and convenience trump religious belief.

That said, why would her Catholic family be satisfied with a "fake" Catholic wedding and what Catholic clergyman would participate in such a farce? Better to have her come here, have a civil ceremony and THEN have the Catholic wedding, at least then it is truly a valid marriage. Seems strange that someone with a "strong" belief would participate and be satisfied with something which must be engineered not to be "legal and valid" Just sayin'

In Ukraine, where religious marriage is not recognized by the law, the religious couples all go for the civil marriage first and THEN go to the church, so the church has the "last word" so to speak. Usually both are done the same day. No one is invited to the civil ceremony and it is more or less done "in secret" to give it as little personal/family recognition to it as possible.

I'm not sure why you'd assume that any ceremony not resulting in a legal contract was a farce. There are certain aspects of a wedding ceremony that are important to the state and those aspects are clearly spelled out in marriage laws. If they are included then a binding civil contract ensues.

There are other aspects important to religious organizations and cultures. Do priests refuse to participate in renewal of vows ceremonies because no actual marriage takes place, thereby making it a farce by your definition? In my experience, many priests have participated in those "farces."

I would sit down with family and whatever religious person is involved and asked what aspects of a "wedding ceremony" can be performed without invoking the legal definition of a marriage TO THE STATE. I think it is highly likely that a priest can bless this couple and have a ceremony/celebration of blessing that does not include the legal aspects that invoke civil marriage. Having a blessing ceremony may make her family feel much more comfortable about her leaving. If, in their heart, they choose to believe they witnessed their daughter's wedding than why would we want to tell them that is any more farcical than any other religious ceremony. Is there really some magic voodoo that occurs at a "real" wedding that couldn't be invoked at a "blessing ceremony?"

I would talk to family and their religious person about holding a blessing ceremony after visa is in hand but before you leave for the US. Be sure that the blessing ceremony doesn't contain the required elements to constitute the contract of marriage. If mom wants to tell Aunt Bessie it's a wedding, that is mom's business. Immigration can't regulate what kind of celebration you have beyond it not constituting a marriage in the eyes of the law. If it constitutes a marriage to Mom and Aunt Bessie, that doesn't invalidate your K1 visa. (To the OP) Learn the required legal elements of a marriage. I believe they ALL must happen to constitute a marriage, so if SOME of them happen, it isn't a marriage. I would check the laws in her country and in the US to be sure you aren't legally married by anyone's definition.

If you don't get legally married, your K1 visa is perfectly valid. Can anyone link to a K1 denied entry because they had some non-wedding celebration before leaving for the US?

The order of operations is important. You simply cannot compare religious ceremonies after civil ceremonies to civil ceremonies after religious ones.

I do like your idea of some sort of blessing thing after the visa but before PoE, but the truth is that the K1 visa means you get married in the US. That's what this couple signed up for, and that's the safest thing to do.

[Carol and Bruno 0]

I am in the same boat and it really bothers me that after having the civil ceremony in the US we are required to wait till the AP document clears and then fly out to my home country to have a religious ceremony here with my family and friends. I want to follow the correct process and wait but it still bothers me as you still cant plan things properly

I just dont understand this requirement of having to be married in the US. does anyone know why you must be married in the US? I mean what does it matter to them where you actually get married?

They don't really care where you get married, that's why they have different types of visas. A fiance(e) visa is for a FIANCE(E) not a spouse. What is so hard to understand about that. If you want to be married in another country then do so and then file for one of the SPOUSE visas.

:thumbs:

[Kinito_2k3 5]

I am in the same boat and it really bothers me that after having the civil ceremony in the US we are required to wait till the AP document clears and then fly out to my home country to have a religious ceremony here with my family and friends. I want to follow the correct process and wait but it still bothers me as you still cant plan things properly

I just dont understand this requirement of having to be married in the US. does anyone know why you must be married in the US? I mean what does it matter to them where you actually get married?

They don't really care where you get married, that's why they have different types of visas. A fiance(e) visa is for a FIANCE(E) not a spouse. What is so hard to understand about that. If you want to be married in another country then do so and then file for one of the SPOUSE visas.

:thumbs:

Yes but this is just not the original point - the question was whether or not it is forbidden/illegal to perform a religious non-binding ceremony abroad before getting married "by law" in the US - the answer is no, it's not forbidden/illegal and the OP has now sufficient information to weigh his options/risks and take an appropriate decision.

[Craig D 0]

Thanks for all of your inputs.

Again, I understood when signing up for the K1 visa that we were to be legally married here. I did not know whether having a religious ceremony was in violation of that, so I asked. Isn't that the point of these forums? Sorry for evidently angering some of you.

Thanks to everyone.

My conclusion is that even though its technically "legal", I think its best not to get into the gray areas with the decision makers. I'll just have her come here, do the civil ceremony, and hopefully the AS or GC will come through quickly allowing us to go back and do the religious ceremony in Peru.

[soniew910 0]

Yeah, go for it. Write us back with the final results.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I am in the same boat and it really bothers me that after having the civil ceremony in the US we are required to wait till the AP document clears and then fly out to my home country to have a religious ceremony here with my family and friends. I want to follow the correct process and wait but it still bothers me as you still cant plan things properly

I just dont understand this requirement of having to be married in the US. does anyone know why you must be married in the US? I mean what does it matter to them where you actually get married?

You do not understand why "fiancee" cannot be married? C'mon, you are from the UK, I have been there, they speak a language very close to English you should be able to understand a French word...fiancee means UNmarried. If you want a visa for your spouse, then get married and apply for that one. There is more than one kind and you can get married where you choose. If choice of marriage place is more important to you than choice of visa, go for it.

What I don't understand is people who cannot decide which is more important...a speedy (relatively) visa or their "strong religious beliefs". Seems "strong religious beliefs" get trumped by "speedy visa" every time...except THEN they want BOTH speedy visa and a (fake) ceremony to "satisfy" someone's "religious beliefs" but I have never heard of a religion satisfied by fake ceremonies. If I was a Priest and you asked such a thing I would throw you out of my office and ask you never to set foot on my Parish again, and probably curse you or whatever else a Priest can do. The whole idea is (or would be if I was a religious person) very insulting to me.

Read the guides and decide what visa is best for your circumstance and use it. Accept the slings and arrows of your convictions and stop trying to figure a way around laws...man made or religious...for your own selfish advantage

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So, my fiancee and I filed for the i-129f. According to the timelines, it should be adjudicated around early September. Thats fine and good. We understand that we must be married within 90 days of her arrival here.

However, she is very close to her family and it just tears her apart to get married here without them. Like most South Americans, they are Catholic. They typically have one "religious" ceremony, getting married in the eyes of God. Additionally, they'll have the civil ceremony, being married in the eyes of the law.

Our question is can I go down there and get married to her in the Catholic church, understanding that we cannot be "legally" married when she arrives into the USA. Then, at some point within the 90 days of her arrival, we can do the civil ceremony here in the USA and fulfill the obligation.

Thanks in advance everyone.

With a K-1 visa you cannot be legally married before she arrives...period. You could get married there and then file for a CR-1 but that takes longer and obviously speed and convenience trump religious belief.

That said, why would her Catholic family be satisfied with a "fake" Catholic wedding and what Catholic clergyman would participate in such a farce? Better to have her come here, have a civil ceremony and THEN have the Catholic wedding, at least then it is truly a valid marriage. Seems strange that someone with a "strong" belief would participate and be satisfied with something which must be engineered not to be "legal and valid" Just sayin'

In Ukraine, where religious marriage is not recognized by the law, the religious couples all go for the civil marriage first and THEN go to the church, so the church has the "last word" so to speak. Usually both are done the same day. No one is invited to the civil ceremony and it is more or less done "in secret" to give it as little personal/family recognition to it as possible.

I'm not sure why you'd assume that any ceremony not resulting in a legal contract was a farce. There are certain aspects of a wedding ceremony that are important to the state and those aspects are clearly spelled out in marriage laws. If they are included then a binding civil contract ensues.

There are other aspects important to religious organizations and cultures. Do priests refuse to participate in renewal of vows ceremonies because no actual marriage takes place, thereby making it a farce by your definition? In my experience, many priests have participated in those "farces."

I would sit down with family and whatever religious person is involved and asked what aspects of a "wedding ceremony" can be performed without invoking the legal definition of a marriage TO THE STATE. I think it is highly likely that a priest can bless this couple and have a ceremony/celebration of blessing that does not include the legal aspects that invoke civil marriage. Having a blessing ceremony may make her family feel much more comfortable about her leaving. If, in their heart, they choose to believe they witnessed their daughter's wedding than why would we want to tell them that is any more farcical than any other religious ceremony. Is there really some magic voodoo that occurs at a "real" wedding that couldn't be invoked at a "blessing ceremony?"

I would talk to family and their religious person about holding a blessing ceremony after visa is in hand but before you leave for the US. Be sure that the blessing ceremony doesn't contain the required elements to constitute the contract of marriage. If mom wants to tell Aunt Bessie it's a wedding, that is mom's business. Immigration can't regulate what kind of celebration you have beyond it not constituting a marriage in the eyes of the law. If it constitutes a marriage to Mom and Aunt Bessie, that doesn't invalidate your K1 visa. (To the OP) Learn the required legal elements of a marriage. I believe they ALL must happen to constitute a marriage, so if SOME of them happen, it isn't a marriage. I would check the laws in her country and in the US to be sure you aren't legally married by anyone's definition.

If you don't get legally married, your K1 visa is perfectly valid. Can anyone link to a K1 denied entry because they had some non-wedding celebration before leaving for the US?

Not even a comparison. A renewal of vows OR a religious marriage after a civil marriage IS a marriage. The couple is married and does not need to conceal it or pretend it never happened. A fake marriage that results in no marriage is a farce and I would never participate in such a thing out of respect for people's religious beliefs and my respect for marriage!

The fact is, in these cases, the couple has chosen the visa that resulted in the beneficiary arriving in the US in the fastest possible manner (a selfish, but valid consideration) and then want to re-wind and get the benefits of a religious marriage before the civil ceremony and conceal it. which is a selfish and NOT valid consideration. Of course, such is my opinion. If the OPs opinion of marriage and religious beliefs is less than mine, then go for it and see if your can get a Priest to go along with it.

As I said earlier, in Ukraine where religious marriage is not recognized, the religious couples always get the civil ceremony first and then the religious ceremony. In fact, the Orthodox church more or less demands this. The Priests of Orthodox churches will not perform a ceremony that results in "no marriage" when they walk away from the alter.