to become an american citizen or not

[thetreble 19]

^

Good Scenario.....

[bowflex 0]

Scenario (using your thought process).

Let's say your wife was born in Canada and is a proud and happy Canadian that loves her country. You are obviously a proud American. You meet online and then in person and you have found your soul mates!!

You decide you want to get married and live happily ever after.

Now neither of you are willing to plege allegiance to any country other than your homeland and realistically your wife might prefer that you move to Canada in 10 years - so with your outlook, she really should not apply for U.S. citizenship.

Do you mean to say that you two should go to the back of the line for her immigration to the U.S.? Would you personally be willing to wait 10 years (not sure how long it takes to get refugee status in the U.S.) for her to be able to immigrate - based on your principles?

If this is the case than I don't think someone should immigrate away from their country. My wife remembers living in Yugoslavia and absolutely loved it, until the US bombed the ####### out of it and before the president decided he was going to start rounding people up and shooting them into mass graves. Her parents often show me pictures and talk fondly of their former home but not once do they ever say they are Yugoslavian (probably partly because that country doesn't exist any more but still LOL).

Her family now proudly says that "they're on their way to being Canadian" and they're just wearing smiles on their faces constantly. The family is now fiercely loyal to the country that is finally allowing them to live safe and well without fear of immigration corruption or government crapathy (I just made that up haha).

In my outlook if someone moves to a country but is not willing to be loyal to that country than I see no point in getting citizenship or really even immigrating. Moving to a country on a visa should also be about that country besides just the person. My wife moved back to the US because she saw potential in where it was going as well as the fact that I'm here. We watched the election together and when Obama was elected she actually cried and said that just proves that she made the right decision.

If someone has absolutely no loyalty or connection to America and is just moving over for a few years to make some money and then get out once it's convenient for them, I really don't think they should have the chance to immigrate before someone who does.

When it was looking like my wife may not be allowed to move back to the United States, we began researching immigration policies for several countries and were both prepared to pledge our allegiance to that country. To me this is just all part of moving to a country, to kind of fulfill a duty to that country as well. In summary, yes I would've waited 10 years if that situation had come up. My wife and I actually waited a year and a half after she moved to Canada to even begin talking about her moving back because at that time she couldn't forgive the US for what they had done to her family and herself.

[thetreble 19]

When it was looking like my wife may not be allowed to move back to the United States, we began researching immigration policies for several countries and were both prepared to pledge our allegiance to that country.

So you are willing to pledge allegiance to any country that would have accepted you both? See, I don't agree with that. If you had to move to a country to live together, I'd understand. But to sit there and say you could be loyal to it and renounce America completely...so much so that you wouldn't be American anymore...I think that's a lot harder then you are making it out to be.

The reason I will always be loyal to Canada is because it raised me! The land, the people, the values of Canadians helped raised me and make me who I am. I owe it so much that I will never fully be able to pay it back.

How could I pledge loyalty to any country in the world just because it was willing to accept me? There is no sentiment involved there. There are no memories.

And saying that "if that's the case, then you shouldn't immigrate away from your country..."

No offense but...are you serious? Think of how silly that is. So, you shouldn't be with the one you love if you are not willing to drop your nationality and everything you know? I just don't understand how you could be involved on an immigration forum and have that thought process.

Edited August 14, 2009 by thetreble

[bowflex 0]

And saying that "if that's the case, then you shouldn't immigrate away from your country..."

No offense but...are you serious? Think of how silly that is. So, you shouldn't be with the one you love if you are not willing to drop your nationality and everything you know? I just don't understand how you could be involved on an immigration forum and have that thought process.

Oh I'm very serious. If you lived in a country that would not allow you back if you left it, would you still have left to be with your significant other? You left the country that you love and that raised you because you wanted to be with the one you loved. I am very thankful to have grown up in America and have all the opportunities that it's given me, but my wife is far more important to me than a country.

Leaving America to be with her would not be hard for me at all. I know some will say you won't know until you do it and such, but I was the one calling relatives that I have in Australia and checking on the UK's immigration policy when our immigration process was looking its darkest. To me America is a great country but in the end it's just that, a country, not my family. I have great memories of growing up in America, but the memories I cherish are much more about my family than a piece of land that I was walking or playing on.

If I was immigrating to a country it would only be to a place that I was willing to commit myself fully to while living with my wife. I would never immigrate to a country that I didn't see myself one day wanted to be a complete part of.

[thetreble 19]

See, it's not just a piece of land. You are entitled to that opinion, but if you look at a country like just a piece of land, then you can never truly pledge allegiance to anything.

How could you be truly loyal to any place if it is just about geography and what kind of commitment could you give some place? If you can leave your country which is what most of us did, to be with the one we love, but have no feelings for your country, then how could you ever call yourself a patriot or proud.

What I hear you saying is your only true commitment is to your wife, which is completely fine!! I don't think there is a problem with that at all as I'm sure many people feel that way. But, your hard fast rules on American citizenship and how you should give up your nationality seem kind of futile then.

If you lived in a country that would now allow you back if you left, then you'd have no choice but to leave it to be with your significant other? I don't understand your point.

[bowflex 0]

See, it's not just a piece of land. You are entitled to that opinion, but if you look at a country like just a piece of land, then you can never truly pledge allegiance to anything.

How could you be truly loyal to any place if it is just about geography and what kind of commitment could you give some place? If you can leave your country which is what most of us did, to be with the one we love, but have no feelings for your country, then how could you ever call yourself a patriot or proud.

What I hear you saying is your only true commitment is to your wife, which is completely fine!! I don't think there is a problem with that at all as I'm sure many people feel that way. But, your hard fast rules on American citizenship and how you should give up your nationality seem kind of futile then.

If you lived in a country that would now allow you back if you left, then you'd have no choice but to leave it to be with your significant other? I don't understand your point.

I have a fierce loyalty to America, but my priorities are the following:

1. My Wife and Family

2. My Country

America is great to me because of what it stands for, but my family are the ones who have always been there and will always be there for me. The government could change tomorrow in America and go back to the Bush ways or change completely to a different system, then all of a sudden I'd be deeply embarassed by what it stands for. I had to live through 8 years of garbage, along with hundreds of millions of others, just because of a bad government leading the way. In the end you are a citizen of Canada just because you were born there. You didn't fight for it, you didn't earn it at first, you just were, same as I am an American for those reasons. I think if someone is actually willing to fight for it and commit themselves to a country by immigrating and pledging themselves to that country, that is a very noble and endearing trait and those folks should be rewarded for it.

As for my question of if you would still leave Canada if you wouldn't be allowed back, that was more towards what I just stated above. If America required you to take the oath and Canada would not allow you back, would you have put that in front of living with your husband? In a second I would pledge allegiance to the country that I agreed to live in with my wife as being with her is more important to me than the country. America will not directly raise my children as my wife will, America may give me the opportunity to pick myself up if times get hard, but my wife will be the one grabbing me and helping me up.

I know we're waaaay off topic of what I've been stating so I'm just going to state what I meant one more time and then possibly just let this thread go as I dont' want anyone getting the wrong impression of me.

1. If you immigrate to a country, in my opinion, those who intend on leaving in a few years should be placed behind those who plan on staying their entire life. I know this is not logistically possible and will never happen, it's just how I feel.

[bowflex 0]

I also just wanted to make it crystal clear I don't look down on anyone who has moved to the US and has no plans on becoming a citizen or is still loyal more to Canada than they ever could be for America. I have certain viewpoints that have obviously made me very biased and I definitely understand that. I've just seen people fight so hard to become a part of America and it seems sometimes that folks who immigrate to the US don't actually value it, they are just waiting for their personal situations to change so they can leave and that saddens me.

[trailmix 77]

I have a fierce loyalty to America, but my priorities are the following:

1. My Wife and Family

2. My Country

I don't think the above differs much from what everyone else has been saying, who doesn't believe in the oath for U.S. citizenship.

Their loyalty is to their family first and foremost - secondly to their county (Canada) and then (possibly) to their adopted country - the U.S.

You are not a citizen of another country so you clearly don't understand - but that is ok! Not trying to give you a hard time or anything

One other thing you mention - about just being 'born' in Canada - that we never had to 'fight' for it. Well that is true for probably most of us, technically, but that does not take away from the fact that many of our ancestors did fight for this country, on behalf of their fellow Canadians and for us too. To denounce Canada, for many, is to denounce our ancestors sacrifices.

It's a very complicated issue!

[bowflex 0]

You are not a citizen of another country so you clearly don't understand - but that is ok! Not trying to give you a hard time or anything

One other thing you mention - about just being 'born' in Canada - that we never had to 'fight' for it. Well that is true for probably most of us, technically, but that does not take away from the fact that many of our ancestors did fight for this country, on behalf of their fellow Canadians and for us too. To denounce Canada, for many, is to denounce our ancestors sacrifices.

It's a very complicated issue!

This is an excellent point, about the ancestors, and I definitely feel what you mean. I really enjoyed this debate and it actually helped me become a gold member now that I just looked haha. I actually do have a sense of loyalty and thankfulness to Canada because when no one else could help my wife and I be together, Canada allowed her family in at the VERY last minute. I remember the night before my wife was to leave she was at my house and I was showing her pictures of Windsor on a laptop because she was never able to go there. The first day we were all there I had her family follow me around and I showed them downtown, Casino Windsor, and a few other lil areas I had seen while clubbing there LOL.

[trailmix 77]

I really enjoyed this debate and it actually helped me become a gold member now that I just looked haha.

[The Dude 206]

I have a fierce loyalty to America, but my priorities are the following:

1. My Wife and Family

2. My Country

I don't think the above differs much from what everyone else has been saying, who doesn't believe in the oath for U.S. citizenship.

Their loyalty is to their family first and foremost - secondly to their county (Canada) and then (possibly) to their adopted country - the U.S.

You are not a citizen of another country so you clearly don't understand - but that is ok! Not trying to give you a hard time or anything

One other thing you mention - about just being 'born' in Canada - that we never had to 'fight' for it. Well that is true for probably most of us, technically, but that does not take away from the fact that many of our ancestors did fight for this country, on behalf of their fellow Canadians and for us too. To denounce Canada, for many, is to denounce our ancestors sacrifices.

It's a very complicated issue!

That is the very reason why I take offense to people taking citizenship for trivial matters. I think I would probably feel the same way about someone who gave up their citizenship for the same reason. I don't think that if you take citizenship you should have to stay in the country in perpetuity. It is your intent when you apply for citizenship. If you know that you will leave at some point in the not too distant future and are only taking it for convenience, or to save money, then you are disrespecting a great many people. Especially when you don't have to, you could remain a permanent resident and enjoy the same rights. Even if you don't know what the future will hold for you, for me, as long as your intention is to take citizenship, and be a good citizen here and now, then more power too you.

LoL @ Warlord. I imagine my in-laws daydream of some sort of continuation of the war of 1812...... they mention it at every opportunity.

[thetreble 19]

LoL @ Warlord. I imagine my in-laws daydream of some sort of continuation of the war of 1812...... they mention it at every opportunity.

We're ready when you are!!!!

wait...no...probably not a good idea.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Heheheeh well there are many War of 1812 re-enactors on both sides of the border who re-fight that war every weekend of the year:-). I still wish I were close enough to participate again too. I sold my flintlock musket when I moved to the US.

[DeadPoolX 9]

Not to derail the conversation, but... if someone is both an American and a Canadian citizen, can they visit places like Cuba? I don't have an interest in doing so; however, as a natural-born American citizen, I am not allowed to go to Cuba. If I became a Canadian citizen as well, could I go or would I somehow get in trouble with the U.S. government?

[BermyCat 1]

Not to derail the conversation, but... if someone is both an American and a Canadian citizen, can they visit places like Cuba? I don't have an interest in doing so; however, as a natural-born American citizen, I am not allowed to go to Cuba. If I became a Canadian citizen as well, could I go or would I somehow get in trouble with the U.S. government?

The US government will recognize you as American only. They aren't going to recognize your Canadian citizenship at all. Based on that, I would assume that you still wouldn't be able to visit Cuba.

~ Catherine