to become an american citizen or not

[trailmix 77]

You are disregarding the fact that people's plans for the life can change....I don't think any one knows what they want initially when they move countries. I certainly didn't. I was just trying to get through the change, nevermind thinking about what I was actually doing. Plans change. I may be here for 10 years, I may be here forever...who knows...and I don't think that makes me any less worthy than someone who is moving from their country because there is a war going on.

I was speaking more of the people that are using the spousal visa to move here and have the intent to move back in a few years or upon retirement. Obviously life can change but I view it as kind of just "buying their time" and someone who plans to live in the States forever is more deserving of the faster processing times and moving here.

Yeah but Treble's point is, who knows that - did I know we would decide to move back to Canada after 15 months in the States? No. I guess i'm saying you can't use "intent" as criteria for immigration.

You know, Citizenship means different things to different people. I am a dual citizen - but I am Canadian, if asked I would not say I am a dual citizen, I would say I am Canadian. If they decided to make all U.S. citizens recite the oath - would I mean it - no.

[bowflex 0]

Yeah but Treble's point is, who knows that - did I know we would decide to move back to Canada after 15 months in the States? No. I guess i'm saying you can't use "intent" as criteria for immigration.

You know, Citizenship means different things to different people. I am a dual citizen - but I am Canadian, if asked I would not say I am a dual citizen, I would say I am Canadian. If they decided to make all U.S. citizens recite the oath - would I mean it - no.

On what citizenship means, I definitely agree it's different for different people. I do see where other posters are coming from about just going for citizenship for convenience, but unfortunately that's how the laws are currently setup so if they allow it, I have no problem with them doing so.

The reason for immigration, be it spousal, refugee, etc is already broken down in the system so I see no reason that intent couldn't also be. The fact that a refugee case could take up to 15 years is a mockery of the system when someone can bring over a spouse that they've met two or three times in a little over a year.

I've always thought that if someone moving to the States was willing to "commit" themselves to the States and go for citizenship and plan on living there forever, that should be expedited over someone that's just coming over with the intent to move back. I've got no ill will towards anyone that takes advantage of the way the system is currently set up, I just don't agree with how that system is currently functioning.

[thetreble 19]

But how do you know that? That same person who believes they are going to commit themselves initially for life may change their mind in less than a year.

People have to do what is right for them, and it's really no one's business or even the government's, what they decide to do in the long run. That's what freedom is all about.

So, if I apply for citizenship in America I will be a tri-citizen. What if I get a great job opportunity in Britain and my husband agrees to move with me to Manchester? I would merely be using what governments have set up for people who are global citizens. We live in a global world. The world is not small any more and the ideas of citizenship probably have changed since even the 50s and 60s.

In the end, you can only ever be truly loyal to one thing, right? One country, one person, one job..(at a time, that is...) if asked to chose in certain situations. It's impossible to be loyal in love and war to two different entities. I think the entire idea of "dual" or even "tri" citizenship is not to make people out to be liars, it's to give them access to everything that has happened to them in their lives, whether it be people, places or job opportunities, etc. Or else, simply be a country that does not recognize it.

[Marilyn. 340]

yeah what she said ^^^

[trailmix 77]

But how do you know that? That same person who believes they are going to commit themselves initially for life may change their mind in less than a year.

People have to do what is right for them, and it's really no one's business or even the government's, what they decide to do in the long run. That's what freedom is all about.

So, if I apply for citizenship in America I will be a tri-citizen. What if I get a great job opportunity in Britain and my husband agrees to move with me to Manchester? I would merely be using what governments have set up for people who are global citizens. We live in a global world. The world is not small any more and the ideas of citizenship probably have changed since even the 50s and 60s.

In the end, you can only ever be truly loyal to one thing, right? One country, one person, one job..(at a time, that is...) if asked to chose in certain situations. It's impossible to be loyal in love and war to two different entities. I think the entire idea of "dual" or even "tri" citizenship is not to make people out to be liars, it's to give them access to everything that has happened to them in their lives, whether it be people, places or job opportunities, etc. Or else, simply be a country that does not recognize it.

Good points treble.

I think what you say about giving people access to everything that has happened to them in their lives - is important. Also access to what went on in their families lives before they were even born!

Bowflex, it seems you have your point of view based on your wife's former situation - and that is not wrong nor unexpected, however I would hazard a guess that your viewpoint might be different if your wife had been born in Canada and you simply had wanted to apply for a spousal visa for her.

Also, something to keep in mind, not everything in the spousal visa process is sunshine and rainbows. The fact that a U.S. citizen has to wait to bring their unmarried child to the U.S., for around 7 years - is totally unfair.

[Flames9_RN 358]

The American govt sets it up to be more convenient to be a USA citizen then remain a permanent resident!! Every 10 yrs one has to go thru the process again, which isn't that difficult once ur here, but its more $$$ out the window, and possible headaches at the border! Everyone has there own reason to take citizenship or not to take it, and believe it or not there are some that are pretty much forced to take it depending on what their spouse does!!

[bowflex 0]

But how do you know that? That same person who believes they are going to commit themselves initially for life may change their mind in less than a year.

People have to do what is right for them, and it's really no one's business or even the government's, what they decide to do in the long run. That's what freedom is all about.

So, if I apply for citizenship in America I will be a tri-citizen. What if I get a great job opportunity in Britain and my husband agrees to move with me to Manchester? I would merely be using what governments have set up for people who are global citizens. We live in a global world. The world is not small any more and the ideas of citizenship probably have changed since even the 50s and 60s.

In the end, you can only ever be truly loyal to one thing, right? One country, one person, one job..(at a time, that is...) if asked to chose in certain situations. It's impossible to be loyal in love and war to two different entities. I think the entire idea of "dual" or even "tri" citizenship is not to make people out to be liars, it's to give them access to everything that has happened to them in their lives, whether it be people, places or job opportunities, etc. Or else, simply be a country that does not recognize it.

People are obviously more than welcome to change their mind, as stated before, I more have a problem with those who are coming to the States just for a few years or so and then plan on going right on back to the country. These people, in my opinion, are not as deserving as someone who plans to stay for their entire life. If things change and that person chooses to leave, then by all means they are allowed to do so. I've just read many times on this entire site that someone moves because their SO has a better job or has family ties at the moment in America but that they can't wait to retire back in their country. The system, in its current form, seems to put way too much emphasis on just having a spouse or fiance in the States and not at all on the intent or want to actually become a part of the USA.

Heck, people should be able to have 30 different citizenships, I'd have no problem with that as long as they are respecting those countries that they are citizens of. Too often it seems that people think of the USA or other countries as just a place to spend a few years with their SO and not actually their country when those who are moving are from comparable countries. I really just have a HUGE problem with the way visas are practically handed out through the spousal scenario but are so corrupted on the other processes.

My mind's going from topic to topic on this and I'm trying to stay on point so I'll stop here for now LOL.

[JillA 2]

I'm going to respect this country when I get citizenship, just as I do now.

Anyhoo, I love how we Canadians are so polite when we all have a difference of opinion. If this topic has been in the OT forum, things would be ugly by now

[bowflex 0]

I'm going to respect this country when I get citizenship, just as I do now.

Anyhoo, I love how we Canadians are so polite when we all have a difference of opinion. If this topic has been in the OT forum, things would be ugly by now

LOL This is by far the only reason I posted my actual opinion on this. Anywhere else I would've just left the thread and never returned

[BermyCat 1]

I know that right now I don't intend to become an American citizen but I am pretty sure I'll be here for the rest of my life. I'm sorry if that sort of thing upsets you, bowflex. I love my husband very much and I really don't think he could ever be happy being really far away from his family. I'm fully commited to being here and contributing to the country through paying my taxes and volunteering for the forseeable future. Not wanting to become a citizen is a cultural identity thing. I just don't indentify as American. That may change in time. If I get to a point where I'd feel perfectly happy describing myself as an American/Bermudian/Canadian (BerCanAmerican maybe ), I'll go for citizenship.

~ Catherine

[bowflex 0]

I know that right now I don't intend to become an American citizen but I am pretty sure I'll be here for the rest of my life. I'm sorry if that sort of thing upsets you, bowflex. I love my husband very much and I really don't think he could ever be happy being really far away from his family. I'm fully commited to being here and contributing to the country through paying my taxes and volunteering for the forseeable future. Not wanting to become a citizen is a cultural identity thing. I just don't indentify as American. That may change in time. If I get to a point where I'd feel perfectly happy describing myself as an American/Bermudian/Canadian (BerCanAmerican maybe ), I'll go for citizenship.

~ Catherine

Oh trust me I'm not angered or upset by anything that's come up in this thread. I have no problem with anyone who doesn't wish to get citizenship here, I just believe that those who do have that intention should be placed in front of those who don't.

[thetreble 19]

Again, I think your experiences reflect your view on the subject, bowflex. You keep on repeating that they give out spousal visas like Candy. I was unemployed for 10 months. Nothing sweet about that!

There are lots of spouses that are waiting for years.

Also, you should be able to retire anywhere you want! After you have worked for 30//35//40 years...go retire in Jamaica for all any one should care. Too much emphasis is being placed here on loyalty. Life is hard as it is just living it without worrying about the guilt you should feel for going to retire in your native country.

[Ban Hammer 13,508]

I'm going to respect this country when I get citizenship, just as I do now.

Anyhoo, I love how we Canadians are so polite when we all have a difference of opinion. If this topic has been in the OT forum, things would be ugly by now

and locked too

[bowflex 0]

Again, I think your experiences reflect your view on the subject, bowflex. You keep on repeating that they give out spousal visas like Candy. I was unemployed for 10 months. Nothing sweet about that!

There are lots of spouses that are waiting for years.

Also, you should be able to retire anywhere you want! After you have worked for 30//35//40 years...go retire in Jamaica for all any one should care. Too much emphasis is being placed here on loyalty. Life is hard as it is just living it without worrying about the guilt you should feel for going to retire in your native country.

Being unemployed for 10 months was just part of the visa that you chose though unfortunately. Had you gone with the CR-1, you could've been working the day you moved if you chose. The ten month waiting period for this was actually due to the choice that you and your husband made and not as much as the stupid processes that exist. Granted the timeline of AOS stuff is insane and another part of the process that makes absolutely no sense, but I've been preaching about the changes that should be made during this entire thread.

The spousal visa, as long as neither person has a criminal record, disease, etc...is pretty straight forward and is MUCH easier than obtaining other visas. Heck people trying to get out of a country that is currently being bombed or is having ethnic cleansing going on have to wait many years whereas people who've met maybe three times and built their entire relationship while typing to each other online can be together in a year or less. Granted it can take longer getting a spousal visa in some cases but those extended times are the rarity and not the usual.

And again of course people should be able to retire and settle anywhere they want. I just don't see that those who view America as their temporary home should be given the same process as someone who's trying to make it their permanent home.

[trailmix 77]

I would never go to live in a country where the government does not take uniting families seriously. As an American citizen I would have thought you would be proud of the fact that the U.S. does take it seriously (in the cases of minor children and spouses).

It's not to be taken lightly. On the other hand I see your point about refugees from war torn countries. However if looked at realistically - due to the sheer volume - it would seem that if spouses and minor children were to go to the back of the line, that they would be waiting say 10-15 years to join their American spouses (Fathers/Mothers).

In that case you would see a lot of very frustrated and angry Americans methinks.

Bottom line - it is not about the rights of immigrants bow - it's about the right of U.S. citizens to bring their families to their home country.

Edited August 13, 2009 by trailmix