'Un-American' attacks can't derail health care debate

[GaryC 7]

Here is the 2009 health care bill HR 3200:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

Take your time, it is a bit lengthy.

Yeah, my point exactly. No one could know what is all in there. All it takes is one little gem in there to turn this into a real #######. Do you think any of the ones that are advocating this have read it all? It is no secret that I don't want it no matter what is there because I don't want the government screwing things up even worse than what it is already. It will just be the start of another Medicare or Social Security that while noble in its intentions but financially unsustainable. Medicare and Social Security are on the brink of insolvency and it would be insane to give the government yet more to screw up. What do you think the ramifications of a collapse of either of those programs? The government has a history of letting programs get out of control and then letting it bloat with red tape and bureaucracy. Now what would happen if the entire country was dependent on a government program for its health care? 20 or 30 years from now it will bloat out of control, fill with corruption and excess and in the end no one will get good health care. Rationing will be a necessity with some government panel deciding who is worth the cost and who is not. Look down the road, compare what is happening now with history and tell me this is good thing to do.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Here is the 2009 health care bill HR 3200:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

Take your time, it is a bit lengthy.

Yeah, my point exactly. No one could know what is all in there. All it takes is one little gem in there to turn this into a real #######. Do you think any of the ones that are advocating this have read it all? It is no secret that I don't want it no matter what is there because I don't want the government screwing things up even worse than what it is already. It will just be the start of another Medicare or Social Security that while noble in its intentions but financially unsustainable. Medicare and Social Security are on the brink of insolvency and it would be insane to give the government yet more to screw up. What do you think the ramifications of a collapse of either of those programs? The government has a history of letting programs get out of control and then letting it bloat with red tape and bureaucracy. Now what would happen if the entire country was dependent on a government program for its health care? 20 or 30 years from now it will bloat out of control, fill with corruption and excess and in the end no one will get good health care. Rationing will be a necessity with some government panel deciding who is worth the cost and who is not. Look down the road, compare what is happening now with history and tell me this is good thing to do.

A vague fear that there is 'one little gem in there to turn this into a real #######' is not exactly a good way to decry the bill. We have a private, for profit system in place that is a #######, and we don't need to wait 20 or 30 years for it to collapse, it is already doing that. Private insurers are raising premiums to cover the fewer and fewer people they insure, doing so to maintain profitability even as so many are losing jobs, many who had health care through 2008, and theoretically good jobs, now gone along with their insurance coverage. For many, COBRA is a twisted joke, way too expensive to maintain after a job loss.

How on earth can anyone defend having health insurance tied to your employer? For the majority, luck of the draw, good or bad or no coverage, and since most of us feel the need to work, little or no control over what we get.

How on earth can anyone defend the breath taking profits of insurance companies? What is the value added?

How on earth can anyone defend the uninsured being charged more than the insured for the exact same medical services performed at the exact same places?

Sooner or later, the cost of premiums will mean only the truly wealthy can afford health insurance. Currently only the truly wealthy have health insurance that is worthy of the name.

Go to your state DSHS and see how little income you need to qualify for health insurance via that route as an adult, it is phenomenally low, in the triple digits in fact. I forget the exact amount, but something like an adult earning more than $275 per month can't get state coverage here in Washington.

And don't forget, while for those of us who still have coverage we all pay more to cover the costs of those who have none, and thus can't pay their medical bills or seek assistance at emergency rooms. The single most expensive form of medical care imaginable and virtually the only 'free' medical care available to the uninsured.

Defending the thugs looking to incite riots at town hall meetings as free speech doesn't get things fixed. Claiming the other side did so as well is not productive, merely deflective. I appreciate a lot of your idea's, especially running the fixes through individual states, and trying a variety of systems to see what works, what doesn't.

I also agree with everyone who is of the opinion, no universal coverage should be adopted that our legislative, judicial and executive branch won't be using themselves should be brought forward. But I think we are looking at incremental change, and we won't soon be switching, those of us with health care coverage currently either.

I don't believe the Fed is always the big bad bully, but I do think the States are closer to the problem, and whole heartedly agree that is probably a great idea not included in the bill.

And I listened to Glen Beck, and this may have been one of his more lucid moments at times during this particular rant, but yep, he is a bit of loon. And clearly partisan, and well compensated for it although I know nothing about his actual qualifications.

Edited August 11, 2009 by ready4ONE

[lostinblue 1,989]

why do need a thousand pages to deal with our health care. It means micro management of every aspect of your health, If every thing is so great why not one page. If you are sick you go to the doctor. Doctor sends in the bill to the government. Does one thousand pages mean ten or one hundred thousand forms that will be needed to make this great program to work. What section or program of the government ever cut cost . NONE

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You're right. We could draft major legislation on the back of a cocktail napkin.

In fact, why not do away with contract law as well. After all, we could run the healthcare system along the lines of the mafia. Can't pay your bill? - they send the boys over to smash your kneecaps.

[Heracles 417]

Here I will give you a little help:

Richard W. Fisher, President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas has remarked that in order to "cover the unfunded liability" for the Medicare program today over an infinite time horizon, "you would be stuck with an $85.6 trillion bill" which is "more than six times the annual output of the entire U.S. economy", and noted that "Medicare was a pay-as-you-go program from the very beginning."[39]

The present value of unfunded obligations under all parts of Medicare during FY 2007 over a 75-year forecast horizon is approximately $34.0 trillion. In other words, this amount would have to be set aside today such that the principal and interest would cover the shortfall over the next 75 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

Why do you think that is? How do you raise revenue? After all, your buddies cut taxes. As Bush stated and I quote, " I may have got a C in Economics but I got an A in tax cuts" You still failed to answer how the Bush admin paid for two majors wars. Or does this fall into the repub like thinking of, well, when it comes to military and war any price is acceptable. The US already spends $730+ billion on military and that does not even include one of the wars. Country number two (China) on the list spends about $70 Billion. Therefore there is zero justification to be wasting that much money.

Economics 101: Reduce spending and raise taxes. Reduce military expenditure to $350 and keep the majority of that spent on R&D and equipment.

[Heracles 417]

Look, I know how we are going to solve this issue. We need the same genius who decided to add gun legislation in during the credit card reform. After all, what is more important than preventing credit card companies from screwing us than ensuring Yogi bear does not attack us. I cannot wait to hear this guys stance on health care. Probably propose allowing people carry guns into hospitals.

[Tinkerbell TX 0]

of all the people who would be most likely to give real examples of ways to make the system better, none were ever asked for their opinions or ideas. Shouldn't the people who drafted this monstrosity of a bill have asked DOCTORS and people who use doctors what works and what doesn't? Since when is .gov the leading authority on healthcare?

[NickD 203]

Seems like the White House also is aware of these smear misleading campaigns.

"

Dear Friend,

Anyone that's watched the news in the past few days knows that health insurance reform is a hot topic — and that rumors and scare tactics have only increased as more people engage with the issue. Given a lot of the outrageous claims floating around, it’s time to make sure everyone knows the facts about the security and stability you get with health insurance reform.

That’s why we’ve launched a new online resource — WhiteHouse.gov/RealityCheck — to help you separate fact from fiction and share the truth about health insurance reform. Here's a few of the reality check videos you can find on the site:

• CEA Chair Christina Romer details how health insurance reform will impact small businesses.
• Domestic Policy Council Director Melody Barnes tackles a nasty rumor about euthanasia and clearly describes how reform helps families.
• Matt Flavin, the White House's Director of Veterans and Wounded Warrior Policy, clears the air about Veteran's benefits.
• Kavita Patel, M.D., a doctor serving in the White House's Office of Public Engagement, explains that health care rationing is happening right now and how reform gives control back to patients and doctors.
• Bob Kocher, M.D., a doctor serving on the National Economic Council, debunks the myth that health insurance reform will be financed by cutting Medicare benefits.

There's more information and a number of online tools you can use to spread the truth among your family, friends and other social networks. Take a look:

We knew going into this effort that accomplishing comprehensive health insurance reform wasn't going to be easy. Achieving real change never is. The entrenched interests that benefit from the status quo always use their influence in Washington to try and keep things just as they are.

But don't be misled. We know the status quo is unsustainable. If we do nothing, millions more Americans will be denied insurance because of pre-existing conditions, or see their coverage suddenly dropped if they become seriously ill. Out-of-pocket expenses will continue to soar, and more and more families and businesses will be forced to deal with health insurance costs they can’t afford.

That's the reality.

Americans deserve better. You deserve a health care system that works as well for you as it does for the status quo; one you can depend on — that won't deny you coverage when you need it most or charge you crippling out-of-pocket co-pays. Health insurance reform means guaranteeing the health care security and stability you deserve.

President Barack Obama promised he'd bring change to Washington and fix our broken, unsustainable health insurance system. You can help deliver that change. Visit WhiteHouse.gov/RealityCheck, get the facts and spread the truth. The stakes are just too high to do nothing.

Thank you,

David

David Axelrod

Senior Advisor to the President

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

of all the people who would be most likely to give real examples of ways to make the system better, none were ever asked for their opinions or ideas. Shouldn't the people who drafted this monstrosity of a bill have asked DOCTORS and people who use doctors what works and what doesn't? Since when is .gov the leading authority on healthcare?

I'd be very surprised if that were true.

[NickD 203]

My son avoids discussions of this nature with his brother-in-law, he is an executive at a healthcare insurance company, can't blame the guy, trying to save his job. What would you do to save your job?

[Tinkerbell TX 0]

of all the people who would be most likely to give real examples of ways to make the system better, none were ever asked for their opinions or ideas. Shouldn't the people who drafted this monstrosity of a bill have asked DOCTORS and people who use doctors what works and what doesn't? Since when is .gov the leading authority on healthcare?

I'd be very surprised if that were true.

No one in the Houston Medical Center was asked for input.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

of all the people who would be most likely to give real examples of ways to make the system better, none were ever asked for their opinions or ideas. Shouldn't the people who drafted this monstrosity of a bill have asked DOCTORS and people who use doctors what works and what doesn't? Since when is .gov the leading authority on healthcare?

I'd be very surprised if that were true.

No one in the Houston Medical Center was asked for input.

My local GP probably wasn't either, that doesn't mean a whole lot.

[Heracles 417]

of all the people who would be most likely to give real examples of ways to make the system better, none were ever asked for their opinions or ideas. Shouldn't the people who drafted this monstrosity of a bill have asked DOCTORS and people who use doctors what works and what doesn't? Since when is .gov the leading authority on healthcare?

Under the present system doctor's don't get asked or get to decide on treatment anyway. The insurance companies have the final say. They get to use cost-benefit analysis to determine whether treating someone is worth it and obviously ‘reserve the right’ to deny any treatment. The purpose of the reform is to get the ball rolling and to prevent such unethical practice from insurance companies. It's not just about insuring the poor, which is a basic human right in 99% of developed and civilized countries, excluding the United States of course.

I am sure it will be refined many times but this is a start. Doing nothing is just not an option anymore. It's affecting people's lives and even taking away from hospitals and doctors who have to foot the bill the second an insurance company decides not to pay because a clause on page 1040, section 1104 (d)(1) states blablabla..

Edited August 11, 2009 by haza

[one...two...tree 2,762]

What planet are you righties from? Want to see the bills? There are indeed several versions in the works, and are indeed AVAILABLE. That they aren't is your Fox News, ** talking radio host idiocracy via disinformation in action...

http://www.citizen.org/hrg/healthcare/articles.cfm?ID=18405

Click the link, read away, and please for love of all that is holy, cease and desist from constantly parroting your fearless Right leadership! Some of you may want to help he who shouts socialist with every post in reading through the bills.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

of all the people who would be most likely to give real examples of ways to make the system better, none were ever asked for their opinions or ideas. Shouldn't the people who drafted this monstrosity of a bill have asked DOCTORS and people who use doctors what works and what doesn't?

You must have missed the AMA's expressed support of HR3200.

"On behalf of the Board of Trustees of the American Medical Association, I am writing to express our appreciation and support for H.R. 3200, the 'America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009,'" says Dr. Michael Maves, the AMA's executive vice president and CEO.

"It's not blue or red, or Democratic or Republican. This is something that is the AMA's core values," Rohack [AMA's Prsident] said. "The status quo that is 50 million Americans not having health insurance, a system that has administrative waste and as a result drives up premiums so that it is unaffordable for many patients — that is just not acceptable."

...

House Committee Passes AMA-Supported Revisions to Health Reform Bill

Aug. 1, 2009

Statement attributable to:

J. James Rohack, MD

President, American Medical Association

“The House Energy and Commerce committee passed important AMA-supported revisions to the House bill that will allow physicians to negotiate payment rates in the public plan option and guarantee voluntary physician participation. We applaud members of the committee for recognizing that the ability to negotiate payment rates will help ensure physician participation. The committee also passed medical liability reform.

“The House bill expands coverage through a choice in plans, eliminates denials based on pre-existing conditions and repeals the flawed Medicare physician payment formula.”

Seems to me that Physicians have not only been consulted but have had their voices heard and stand with the administration and the Democrat led Congress in the effort to reform the broken health care system.