'Un-American' attacks can't derail health care debate

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The CBO estimate is the only estimate we have that's been arrived at by any kind of actual methodology. That number is less than the CBO estimate (yes...) for the three Bush tax cuts.

You can rant and rave about how wrong the CBO is but unless you and your hillbilly buddies can put together something better, the CBO estimate is what we'll have to work with.

Now I know why you called yourself a troll AJ.

History is also something we have to work with. Show me any federal project that came in at or below the initial estimates. There isn't any. Every one of them shoots off the top of the charts after a few years.

I know of at least one. My stepdad worked on a defense project that came under budget, and worked the first time out, and as far as I know, is still in service today. The unique feature, was that the specs were written such that 90% of the components could be "bought off the shelf." Of course, my stepdad was the one that made sure that happened. Novel idea, eh?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Why don't people know what's in the bill? Why all the rancor over a bill that's not even fully formulated yet? Why is smooth talking Barry at a loss for words about the facts, preferring to instead create and encurage more invective and division against those who disagree with him?

The process around this issue is a serious failure on the part of the Democrat leadership and a very revealing chapter re how they really feel about the "great unwashed" among the electorate.

The bill is already written, and sitting in the Speaker desk, under lock and key. We are just going through the motions for now. When the bill goes to conference, then America will finally get a peek at what Obama is expected to sign.

[GaryC 7]

Yes, once the final bill comes out of reconciliation it will have to get passed by both houses again and then it'll go for signing. There will be a LOT of time then to look at the actual bill.

Really? Did we get a chance to look at the TARP bill before it was signed? How about the stimulus bill?

[Niels Bohr 72]

OMG! Un-American attacks? Ridiculous! It's the most American thing to do to have debates.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Why don't people know what's in the bill? Why all the rancor over a bill that's not even fully formulated yet? Why is smooth talking Barry at a loss for words about the facts, preferring to instead create and encurage more invective and division against those who disagree with him?

The process around this issue is a serious failure on the part of the Democrat leadership and a very revealing chapter re how they really feel about the "great unwashed" among the electorate.

The bill is already written, and sitting in the Speaker desk, under lock and key. We are just going through the motions for now. When the bill goes to conference, then America will finally get a peek at what Obama is expected to sign.

There's not one bill, yet. There are 5 versions at this time.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Why don't people know what's in the bill? Why all the rancor over a bill that's not even fully formulated yet? Why is smooth talking Barry at a loss for words about the facts, preferring to instead create and encurage more invective and division against those who disagree with him?

The process around this issue is a serious failure on the part of the Democrat leadership and a very revealing chapter re how they really feel about the "great unwashed" among the electorate.

The bill is already written, and sitting in the Speaker desk, under lock and key. We are just going through the motions for now. When the bill goes to conference, then America will finally get a peek at what Obama is expected to sign.

There's not one bill, yet. There are 5 versions at this time.

No, I think it is already written, just waiting for a vehicle to get it to the President. Something this "critical" can't be left to mere mortals.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Why don't people know what's in the bill? Why all the rancor over a bill that's not even fully formulated yet? Why is smooth talking Barry at a loss for words about the facts, preferring to instead create and encurage more invective and division against those who disagree with him?

The process around this issue is a serious failure on the part of the Democrat leadership and a very revealing chapter re how they really feel about the "great unwashed" among the electorate.

The bill is already written, and sitting in the Speaker desk, under lock and key. We are just going through the motions for now. When the bill goes to conference, then America will finally get a peek at what Obama is expected to sign.

There's not one bill, yet. There are 5 versions at this time.

No, I think it is already written, just waiting for a vehicle to get it to the President. Something this "critical" can't be left to mere mortals.

Obama is no mere mortal; he's the Messiah. Yet, he leaves bill writing to Pelosi, Reed and Waxman. HR 3200 is the most complete version, but there are at least 3 others. I hear 4 more.

[natty bumppo 297]

Why don't people know what's in the bill? Why all the rancor over a bill that's not even fully formulated yet? Why is smooth talking Barry at a loss for words about the facts, preferring to instead create and encurage more invective and division against those who disagree with him?

The process around this issue is a serious failure on the part of the Democrat leadership and a very revealing chapter re how they really feel about the "great unwashed" among the electorate.

The bill is already written, and sitting in the Speaker desk, under lock and key. We are just going through the motions for now. When the bill goes to conference, then America will finally get a peek at what Obama is expected to sign.

There's not one bill, yet. There are 5 versions at this time.

No, I think it is already written, just waiting for a vehicle to get it to the President. Something this "critical" can't be left to mere mortals.

Obama is no mere mortal; he's the Messiah. Yet, he leaves bill writing to Pelosi, Reed and Waxman. HR 3200 is the most complete version, but there are at least 3 others. I hear 4 more.

actually the massa is mortal .. and his 4+ copies of the same bill traversing the halls are his kryptonite ....

[GaryC 7]

I actually interested in this - I cannot believe that there is no means by which the public has access to the details of proposed legislation, if they should be so inclined.

Heck, even our representatives don't always have access to the details of proposed legislation. Are you aware that it's not uncommon for bills to be written by special interests, to be introduced in committee?

So the country's legislative business is devised and foisted on the public via the medium of fear, uncertainty and innuendo?

Explains why people are anti-government, I guess.

Good luck with your system. You guys are fvcked.

Yeah we are, noone really knows what is in any bill because of the way we put them together. The chants of "read the bill" are not just some cheer from the right to disrupt things. Most bills are passed without anyone fully understanding what is in them. Every committee inserts their own loophole hoping that no one catches it. The end result is a bloated mess that usually makes things worse.

One gem that comes to mind is something that happened with the TARP bill. Wasn't it Sen. Dodd that put language in that allowed multi-million dollar bonuses to be paid out by a company that got bail out money? This sort of thing is the rule rather than the exception. Any health care bill that is passed will be loaded with this kind of #######. Special interests run Washington. It does not matter who is in power the ####### is always the same.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

What planet are you righties from? Want to see the bills? There are indeed several versions in the works, and are indeed AVAILABLE. That they aren't is your Fox News, ** talking radio host idiocracy via disinformation in action...

http://www.citizen.org/hrg/healthcare/articles.cfm?ID=18405

Click the link, read away, and please for love of all that is holy, cease and desist from constantly parroting your fearless Right leadership! Some of you may want to help he who shouts socialist with every post in reading through the bills.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

By the way:

<h3 align="center">HR 676 Would Reduce Overall Healthcare Costs</h3>

Families Pay Less

A study by nationally recognized economist, Dean Baker, of the Center for Economic Research and Policy concluded that under H.R. 676, a family of three making $40,000 per year would spend approximately $1900 per year for healthcare coverage. Currently, (in 2007) the average annual premium for families covered under an employee health plan is $11,000. (National Coalition on Health Care.)

Mr. Baker is better qualified than any of us to assess the value of HR 676, heck, he is even more qualified than Rush!

[GaryC 7]

What planet are you righties from? Want to see the bills? There are indeed several versions in the works, and are indeed AVAILABLE. That they aren't is your Fox News, ** talking radio host idiocracy via disinformation in action...

http://www.citizen.org/hrg/healthcare/articles.cfm?ID=18405

Click the link, read away, and please for love of all that is holy, cease and desist from constantly parroting your fearless Right leadership! Some of you may want to help he who shouts socialist with every post in reading through the bills.

As they say, the devil is in the details. The bill is thousands of pages long. What you have there is just the outline. Read the whole thing and get back with us.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Here is the 2009 health care bill HR 3200:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

Take your time, it is a bit lengthy.

[GaryC 7]

I know the sh!tstorm I am about to start here but damn it the man is making sense. Here is tonight's Glen Beck. Yes, I know he is over the top. Yes I know that a lot of you think he is nuts and on par with Hannity or Limbaugh. Do me a favor and get by his theatrics. What he is saying is exactly how I feel about this whole health care drama.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

What planet are you righties from? Want to see the bills? There are indeed several versions in the works, and are indeed AVAILABLE. That they aren't is your Fox News, ** talking radio host idiocracy via disinformation in action...

http://www.citizen.org/hrg/healthcare/articles.cfm?ID=18405

Click the link, read away, and please for love of all that is holy, cease and desist from constantly parroting your fearless Right leadership! Some of you may want to help he who shouts socialist with every post in reading through the bills.

As they say, the devil is in the details. The bill is thousands of pages long. What you have there is just the outline. Read the whole thing and get back with us.

Gotta click the links there Gary. Yes the page I gave was an overview, the actual bills are linked.