France Fights Universal Care's High Cost

[mendeleev 68]

And our socialized medicine is supposed to keep costs down huh?

France pays about 10.5% of national income for health care. That includes the private accounts that most French people take out.

The USA pays a little over 16% of national income for health care.

And the rate of inflation for healthcare in France is lower than in the USA, so with reform in the USA, the gap will continue to spread.

So, luckytxn, it looks like the answer to your question is "yes".

If you ration and deny health care and do not spend more to open more hospitals and clinics and just generally pay under what things cost then yes one nation can save money on health care. The U.S. spends a lot and gets quality care and never wait for any procedure or test to be done here. This article showed what the health care is like in France and the government not spending enough on their socialized health care and the taxes need to be raised to get their level of quality up to ours here in the U.S.

Please, don't tell me we don't ration health care now.

When CIGNA decided the hospital my doctor went to, overruling my preference to send her to a better one, and chose the doctors at that hospital that would take care of her, in decisions they later told me were driven partly by cost considerations, they made choices against her interest. If she had had better care, she might have lived.

But CIGNA rationed her care.

Market economies are all about rationing. That is exactly what money is: it is a means to determine who much of what you want you get. It would be great if rationing were done in ways that improved choice (unlike what my daughter got) and improved care and outcomes. To claim that we do not ration healthcare in the USA is, at best, delusional and disingenuous and at worst blatantly dishonest.

Interesting slip I made ... sorry. CIGNA decided the hospital my daughter (not doctor) went to. They also did decide which doctors could treat her. I wanted her to go to University of Chicago Hospital once we knew what was wrong and CIGNA insisted she stay in a suburban hospital whose doctors knew less about her condition and could not provide the level of care available at UocC (which, incidentally, was a hospital in CIGNA's network at the time, but which charged more for care.)

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And our socialized medicine is supposed to keep costs down huh?

France pays about 10.5% of national income for health care. That includes the private accounts that most French people take out.

The USA pays a little over 16% of national income for health care.

And the rate of inflation for healthcare in France is lower than in the USA, so with reform in the USA, the gap will continue to spread.

So, luckytxn, it looks like the answer to your question is "yes".

If you ration and deny health care and do not spend more to open more hospitals and clinics and just generally pay under what things cost then yes one nation can save money on health care. The U.S. spends a lot and gets quality care and never wait for any procedure or test to be done here. This article showed what the health care is like in France and the government not spending enough on their socialized health care and the taxes need to be raised to get their level of quality up to ours here in the U.S.

Please, don't tell me we don't ration health care now.

When CIGNA decided the hospital my doctor went to, overruling my preference to send her to a better one, and chose the doctors at that hospital that would take care of her, in decisions they later told me were driven partly by cost considerations, they made choices against her interest. If she had had better care, she might have lived.

But CIGNA rationed her care.

Market economies are all about rationing. That is exactly what money is: it is a means to determine who much of what you want you get. It would be great if rationing were done in ways that improved choice (unlike what my daughter got) and improved care and outcomes. To claim that we do not ration healthcare in the USA is, at best, delusional and disingenuous and at worst blatantly dishonest.

Bingo.

[Heracles 417]

There's one simple fact I never could understand.

Why a simple doctor consultation costs 30$ here (before insurance) and can go up to 250$ in the US....?

Well I guess because med school is almost free here...

Sigh...

Litigation is also a huge problem (cost) for doctors here.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And our socialized medicine is supposed to keep costs down huh?

France pays about 10.5% of national income for health care. That includes the private accounts that most French people take out.

The USA pays a little over 16% of national income for health care.

And the rate of inflation for healthcare in France is lower than in the USA, so with reform in the USA, the gap will continue to spread.

So, luckytxn, it looks like the answer to your question is "yes".

If you ration and deny health care and do not spend more to open more hospitals and clinics and just generally pay under what things cost then yes one nation can save money on health care. The U.S. spends a lot and gets quality care and never wait for any procedure or test to be done here. This article showed what the health care is like in France and the government not spending enough on their socialized health care and the taxes need to be raised to get their level of quality up to ours here in the U.S.

Please, don't tell me we don't ration health care now.

When CIGNA decided the hospital my doctor went to, overruling my preference to send her to a better one, and chose the doctors at that hospital that would take care of her, in decisions they later told me were driven partly by cost considerations, they made choices against her interest. If she had had better care, she might have lived.

But CIGNA rationed her care.

Market economies are all about rationing. That is exactly what money is: it is a means to determine who much of what you want you get. It would be great if rationing were done in ways that improved choice (unlike what my daughter got) and improved care and outcomes. To claim that we do not ration healthcare in the USA is, at best, delusional and disingenuous and at worst blatantly dishonest.

Its very common too...

[Heracles 417]

Please, don't tell me we don't ration health care now.

When CIGNA decided the hospital my doctor went to, overruling my preference to send her to a better one, and chose the doctors at that hospital that would take care of her, in decisions they later told me were driven partly by cost considerations, they made choices against her interest. If she had had better care, she might have lived.

But CIGNA rationed her care.

Market economies are all about rationing. That is exactly what money is: it is a means to determine who much of what you want you get. It would be great if rationing were done in ways that improved choice (unlike what my daughter got) and improved care and outcomes. To claim that we do not ration healthcare in the USA is, at best, delusional and disingenuous and at worst blatantly dishonest.

A lot of the claims against change are disingenuous. Many against reform of healthcare use the overseas excuse, even though they have not used any services there. Excuses like the government will decide what treatment we receive is utter bull ####### and rubbish. In reality executives and boards we don't vote in currently get to decide whether out treatment is viable or not. They limited my wife's preventative care. That is fact. Whereas, even a 20 year old can go and receive a mammogram in AUS. And that is fact.

Edited August 10, 2009 by haza

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There's one simple fact I never could understand.

Why a simple doctor consultation costs 30$ here (before insurance) and can go up to 250$ in the US....?

Well I guess because med school is almost free here...

Sigh...

Litigation is also a huge problem (cost) for doctors here.

Medical malpractice claims make up 2% of the total expenditure - hardly a "huge" problem or cost. What is a huge problem and cost is the medical malpractice insurance with rates rising while claims decrease.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There's one simple fact I never could understand.

Why a simple doctor consultation costs 30$ here (before insurance) and can go up to 250$ in the US....?

Well I guess because med school is almost free here...

Sigh...

Litigation is also a huge problem (cost) for doctors here.

Medical malpractice claims make up 2% of the total expenditure - hardly a "huge" problem or cost. What is a huge problem and cost is the medical malpractice insurance with rates rising while claims decrease.

Yeah I think lawsuits are a red herring - given you can't have any sort of operation done without first signing a disclaimer informing you of the possible complications and waiving your right to sue.