SCRAP HEALTH CARE REFORM IF IT ADDS TO DEFICIT,

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Isn't this the sort of thing the other side complains about insurance companies about? It looks like we would be trading dealing with insurance companies for government bureaucrats.

Judgement day for cancer patient denied costly drug

Well, if NHS would pull the same ####### on the British population that the private insurance industry pulls on Americans - more than doubling contributions every decade or so - this debate wouldn't be had. The NHS would have superior funding. The private insurance industry rips Americans off year after year and still denies drugs (I've been denied drugs in the past right here in the US by my private insurance company), treatments and is on record of rescinding coverage whenever possible when the insured actually need the insurance they paid tons of money for. So, despite paying double or more what any other person in the developed world pays for health care, we still get shafted all the same. I'd rather pay less for getting shafted or pay the same and not get shafted anymore. The private insurance industry isn't the answer. They proved themselves incapable of offering a good value.

Psssst.........the dude got his Revlamid.

After being put through the ringer and at the last minute. If you think dealing with the insurance company is bad just think trying to deal with the government. A little hint, think USCIS. Can you imagine the same run around and inefficiency for your health care?

He was after an unapproved drug. And he wanted them to pay for it. Do you know an insurance company that would do that?

That is the point, that drug is approved here. The NHS decided that the cost wasn't worth his life. I don't want the government making that decision for my care.

Celebrex is approved in the US - my private insurance still refused to cover it.

[GaryC 7]

Isn't this the sort of thing the other side complains about insurance companies about? It looks like we would be trading dealing with insurance companies for government bureaucrats.

Judgement day for cancer patient denied costly drug

Well, if NHS would pull the same ####### on the British population that the private insurance industry pulls on Americans - more than doubling contributions every decade or so - this debate wouldn't be had. The NHS would have superior funding. The private insurance industry rips Americans off year after year and still denies drugs (I've been denied drugs in the past right here in the US by my private insurance company), treatments and is on record of rescinding coverage whenever possible when the insured actually need the insurance they paid tons of money for. So, despite paying double or more what any other person in the developed world pays for health care, we still get shafted all the same. I'd rather pay less for getting shafted or pay the same and not get shafted anymore. The private insurance industry isn't the answer. They proved themselves incapable of offering a good value.

Psssst.........the dude got his Revlamid.

After being put through the ringer and at the last minute. If you think dealing with the insurance company is bad just think trying to deal with the government. A little hint, think USCIS. Can you imagine the same run around and inefficiency for your health care?

He was after an unapproved drug. And he wanted them to pay for it. Do you know an insurance company that would do that?

That is the point, that drug is approved here. The NHS decided that the cost wasn't worth his life. I don't want the government making that decision for my care.

Celebrex is approved in the US - my private insurance still refused to cover it.

Mine does, thanks for reminding me to take my medicine.

[rebeccajo 14]

I honestly did some research on the NHS over the last few days. A lot of interesting news articles out there. I know it has been debunked over there but I was amused by the term "third largest employer in the world" accusation. It seems that the NHS has over 1.8 million employees to run it. That system has become huge and monolithic. That would be the future of any system we come up with. How could they be efficient with that kind of juggernaut running it?

Your best source for 'research' on the NHS are persons who have lived with it.

I've got one in my household.

It would be interesting to know the total number of persons employed in healthcare in the US. I'm sure the figure would be staggering.

The stories are about people who have NHS. Sure they are extreme horror stories that have analogies here. I think the point I am trying to make is not much will change if it is the government rather than insurance companies. We would just have a new master and I don't trust the government. Once started there is no turning back.

And I don't trust the insurance companies.

And I don't trust the drug companies.

And I don't trust employers to keep providing a benefit that continues to cripple their bottom line.

Do you really think it's a good idea (in a country where commerce is King) to continue to trust your health to your employer's generosity?

[GaryC 7]

I honestly did some research on the NHS over the last few days. A lot of interesting news articles out there. I know it has been debunked over there but I was amused by the term "third largest employer in the world" accusation. It seems that the NHS has over 1.8 million employees to run it. That system has become huge and monolithic. That would be the future of any system we come up with. How could they be efficient with that kind of juggernaut running it?

Your best source for 'research' on the NHS are persons who have lived with it.

I've got one in my household.

It would be interesting to know the total number of persons employed in healthcare in the US. I'm sure the figure would be staggering.

The stories are about people who have NHS. Sure they are extreme horror stories that have analogies here. I think the point I am trying to make is not much will change if it is the government rather than insurance companies. We would just have a new master and I don't trust the government. Once started there is no turning back.

And I don't trust the insurance companies.

And I don't trust the drug companies.

And I don't trust employers to keep providing a benefit that continues to cripple their bottom line.

Do you really think it's a good idea (in a country where commerce is King) to continue to trust your health to your employer's generosity?

I don't trust the government. I would rather trust my employer and insurance company that them. At least I can change jobs or insurance companies. You can't change governments, short of emigrating.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Isn't this the sort of thing the other side complains about insurance companies about? It looks like we would be trading dealing with insurance companies for government bureaucrats.

Judgement day for cancer patient denied costly drug

Well, if NHS would pull the same ####### on the British population that the private insurance industry pulls on Americans - more than doubling contributions every decade or so - this debate wouldn't be had. The NHS would have superior funding. The private insurance industry rips Americans off year after year and still denies drugs (I've been denied drugs in the past right here in the US by my private insurance company), treatments and is on record of rescinding coverage whenever possible when the insured actually need the insurance they paid tons of money for. So, despite paying double or more what any other person in the developed world pays for health care, we still get shafted all the same. I'd rather pay less for getting shafted or pay the same and not get shafted anymore. The private insurance industry isn't the answer. They proved themselves incapable of offering a good value.

Psssst.........the dude got his Revlamid.

After being put through the ringer and at the last minute. If you think dealing with the insurance company is bad just think trying to deal with the government. A little hint, think USCIS. Can you imagine the same run around and inefficiency for your health care?

He was after an unapproved drug. And he wanted them to pay for it. Do you know an insurance company that would do that?

That is the point, that drug is approved here. The NHS decided that the cost wasn't worth his life. I don't want the government making that decision for my care.

Celebrex is approved in the US - my private insurance still refused to cover it.

Mine does, thanks for reminding me to take my medicine.

Deliberately missing the point, are we? My doctor thought that I should take Celebrex but the pharmacy couldn't fill the order since the insurance company felt that I don't need it. So much for decisions being made by the doctor and the patient.

ETA: The evil government run schemes in the US would cover it no questions asked.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[rebeccajo 14]

I don't trust the government. I would rather trust my employer and insurance company that them. At least I can change jobs or insurance companies. You can't change governments, short of emigrating.

At this point, It'd be easier to emigrate, IMO.

[GaryC 7]

I don't trust the government. I would rather trust my employer and insurance company that them. At least I can change jobs or insurance companies. You can't change governments, short of emigrating.

At this point, It'd be easier to emigrate, IMO.

Deliberately missing the point, are we? My doctor thought that I should take Celebrex but the pharmacy couldn't fill the order since the insurance company felt that I don't need it. So much for decisions being made by the doctor and the patient.

My point to both of you, once the government takes over THEY will be making these decisions about what you can have or not have. Once that happens you have no other recourse. Right now you do, change jobs to get other insurance or chose a different plan through your employer if offered. Don't tell me this isn't an option because I have changed jobs because of the insurance. The change turned out to be a very good move for me BTW.

[rebeccajo 14]

I don't trust the government. I would rather trust my employer and insurance company that them. At least I can change jobs or insurance companies. You can't change governments, short of emigrating.

At this point, It'd be easier to emigrate, IMO.

Deliberately missing the point, are we? My doctor thought that I should take Celebrex but the pharmacy couldn't fill the order since the insurance company felt that I don't need it. So much for decisions being made by the doctor and the patient.

My point to both of you, once the government takes over THEY will be making these decisions about what you can have or not have. Once that happens you have no other recourse. Right now you do, change jobs to get other insurance or chose a different plan through your employer if offered. Don't tell me this isn't an option because I have changed jobs because of the insurance. The change turned out to be a very good move for me BTW.

I think it's pathetic that a person would have to change their employment to acquire health cover. And that you would think having made that choice somehow makes you Master of Your Fate.

[GaryC 7]

I don't trust the government. I would rather trust my employer and insurance company that them. At least I can change jobs or insurance companies. You can't change governments, short of emigrating.

At this point, It'd be easier to emigrate, IMO.

Deliberately missing the point, are we? My doctor thought that I should take Celebrex but the pharmacy couldn't fill the order since the insurance company felt that I don't need it. So much for decisions being made by the doctor and the patient.

My point to both of you, once the government takes over THEY will be making these decisions about what you can have or not have. Once that happens you have no other recourse. Right now you do, change jobs to get other insurance or chose a different plan through your employer if offered. Don't tell me this isn't an option because I have changed jobs because of the insurance. The change turned out to be a very good move for me BTW.

I think it's pathetic that a person would have to change their employment to acquire health cover. And that you would think having made that choice somehow makes you Master of Your Fate.

It's a choice I made and in the end was a good choice. Once the government gets involved that option is taken away.

[rebeccajo 14]

I don't trust the government. I would rather trust my employer and insurance company that them. At least I can change jobs or insurance companies. You can't change governments, short of emigrating.

At this point, It'd be easier to emigrate, IMO.

Deliberately missing the point, are we? My doctor thought that I should take Celebrex but the pharmacy couldn't fill the order since the insurance company felt that I don't need it. So much for decisions being made by the doctor and the patient.

My point to both of you, once the government takes over THEY will be making these decisions about what you can have or not have. Once that happens you have no other recourse. Right now you do, change jobs to get other insurance or chose a different plan through your employer if offered. Don't tell me this isn't an option because I have changed jobs because of the insurance. The change turned out to be a very good move for me BTW.

I think it's pathetic that a person would have to change their employment to acquire health cover. And that you would think having made that choice somehow makes you Master of Your Fate.

It's a choice I made and in the end was a good choice. Once the government gets involved that option is taken away.

The "option" to give up a job you like so you'll have health insurance and won't go broke over an illness?

What kind of option is that?

How about having the option to get up out of bed in the morning and go to whatever place of employment you like without even thinking about your 'benefits'?

How about the ability of small promising firms to attract better talent because they won't be competing for employees because of 'benefits'?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Perhaps research into a drug which allows folks to 'trust the government' is the true solution to this problem.

With regards to how many are employed by the oh so scary NHS, check this out, seems we have our own tentacled monolith growing right here in the USA, but hey, who knew?:

Health insurance industry employment outpacing providers and all-industry growth rates

Snapshot for September 19, 2007.

Health insurance industry employment outpacing providers and all-industry growth rates

by Ross Eisenbrey

Economist Paul Krugman and many others have suggested that the health insurance industry has a lot to do with the excessive cost of U.S. health care. As Krugman describes the industry, an important part of its business model is collecting premiums while denying deserving claims and seeking out reasons to exclude patients from coverage they need. It takes a lot of extra employees to do this socially questionable work, and the industry's employment has grown like a weed over the past 10 years.

From August 1997 to August 2007, employment in the health insurance industry grew an astounding 52%, from 293,000 to 444,000.1 During the same period, employment among physicians, nurses, and others who provide health services or work to support them grew half as fast, by 26%, from 10,387,000 to 13,042,000. Employment in the economy as a whole grew even more slowly, by only 12% over the same 10-year period (see figure). The ratio of health insurance industry employees to health service providers grew from 28 insurance employees per 1,000 provider employers, to 34 per 1,000.

Endnote

1. Employment, hours, and earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National).

http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entr...shots_20070919/

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I don't trust the government. I would rather trust my employer and insurance company that them. At least I can change jobs or insurance companies. You can't change governments, short of emigrating.

At this point, It'd be easier to emigrate, IMO.

Deliberately missing the point, are we? My doctor thought that I should take Celebrex but the pharmacy couldn't fill the order since the insurance company felt that I don't need it. So much for decisions being made by the doctor and the patient.

My point to both of you, once the government takes over THEY will be making these decisions about what you can have or not have. Once that happens you have no other recourse. Right now you do, change jobs to get other insurance or chose a different plan through your employer if offered. Don't tell me this isn't an option because I have changed jobs because of the insurance. The change turned out to be a very good move for me BTW.

First, my point is that health care decisions are more likely to be between the doctor and the patient if there is no profit oriented insurance bureaucrat between the doctor and the patient. Case in point, Medicare covers what my insurance carrier -while generally covering it - decided wasn't necessary for me. What exactly it is that qualifies the insurance company to make that decision is beyond me. Secondly, change jobs for insurance? Or be unable to do so because of health insurance considerations? Why would it be desirable to let insurance companies have any influence whatsoever over my career choices? That's just an insane situation. There's nothing positive about that. Nothing.

[GaryC 7]

I don't trust the government. I would rather trust my employer and insurance company that them. At least I can change jobs or insurance companies. You can't change governments, short of emigrating.

At this point, It'd be easier to emigrate, IMO.

Deliberately missing the point, are we? My doctor thought that I should take Celebrex but the pharmacy couldn't fill the order since the insurance company felt that I don't need it. So much for decisions being made by the doctor and the patient.

My point to both of you, once the government takes over THEY will be making these decisions about what you can have or not have. Once that happens you have no other recourse. Right now you do, change jobs to get other insurance or chose a different plan through your employer if offered. Don't tell me this isn't an option because I have changed jobs because of the insurance. The change turned out to be a very good move for me BTW.

I think it's pathetic that a person would have to change their employment to acquire health cover. And that you would think having made that choice somehow makes you Master of Your Fate.

It's a choice I made and in the end was a good choice. Once the government gets involved that option is taken away.

The "option" to give up a job you like so you'll have health insurance and won't go broke over an illness?

What kind of option is that?

How about having the option to get up out of bed in the morning and go to whatever place of employment you like without even thinking about your 'benefits'?

How about the ability of small promising firms to attract better talent because they won't be competing for employees because of 'benefits'?

One of the items on the table is requiring companies to offer health care or pay a fine. Wouldn't you think that would have the same effect?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Isn't this the sort of thing the other side complains about insurance companies about? It looks like we would be trading dealing with insurance companies for government bureaucrats.

Judgement day for cancer patient denied costly drug

Well, if NHS would pull the same ####### on the British population that the private insurance industry pulls on Americans - more than doubling contributions every decade or so - this debate wouldn't be had. The NHS would have superior funding. The private insurance industry rips Americans off year after year and still denies drugs (I've been denied drugs in the past right here in the US by my private insurance company), treatments and is on record of rescinding coverage whenever possible when the insured actually need the insurance they paid tons of money for. So, despite paying double or more what any other person in the developed world pays for health care, we still get shafted all the same. I'd rather pay less for getting shafted or pay the same and not get shafted anymore. The private insurance industry isn't the answer. They proved themselves incapable of offering a good value.

Psssst.........the dude got his Revlamid.

After being put through the ringer and at the last minute. If you think dealing with the insurance company is bad just think trying to deal with the government. A little hint, think USCIS. Can you imagine the same run around and inefficiency for your health care?

He was after an unapproved drug. And he wanted them to pay for it. Do you know an insurance company that would do that?

That is the point, that drug is approved here. The NHS decided that the cost wasn't worth his life. I don't want the government making that decision for my care.

The insurance companies do that already though...

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