Why Would the AARP Support State-Sponsored Euthanasia?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well, the result of the governments mismanagement by not raising premiums have cause this huge shortfall that we cannot possibly recover from. Wrap this number around your head, 37.8 TRILLION dollars. That is what is needed just to break even. Can you imagine what kind of tax rate we would need to cover that? Sorry man, I just don't see a well managed system there.

What time frame is the basis for this 37.8 trillion figure? What other assumptions have been made to arrive at that number? Once we know that, we can take a look at what kind of raise in the medicare rate it would take. I'm almost certain, however, that the system would remain in good shape if the rates would be raised half of the rate raises that the private health insurance has pushed through. In other words, raise the rate 50% over the next decade and I think we'd be looking a lot better. Alternatively, open the system for a premium below the private insurance rates to people that are net payers - young folks - and the picture will change dramatically for the better w/o the need for dramatic rate increases.

Okay, so the time frame for this prediction is 75 years - leaving an unfunded liability of roughly half a trillion dollars annually (that's in today's dollars). Meanwhile, we already waste roughly 700 billion per year on this fractured and inefficient private insurance dominated health care model - with an upward trend. Seems to me that chasing after this unfunded medicare liability - which wouldn't even be there if Medicare had jacked rates up like the private insurance did - while accepting the much more dramatic waste on the other end of the discussion is somewhat questionable to say the least.

The fund's reserves will be exhausted by 2017, making it insolvent two years earlier than the trustees predicted last year. Medicare's total unfunded obligations, including its programs that use general revenues to pay for doctors' fees and prescription drugs, have reached $37.8 trillion.

Not 75 years Dog, 8 years. That is 4.7 trillion dollars per year. ... Please understand this man, we cannot afford one more trillion dollar project no matter how important you may think it is.

Please understand this, man: Your panic is based on a gross misunderstanding of the facts. There's a difference between exhausting a fund's reserves and the total unfunded liability projections.

Here's to the projections:

Measures of “unfunded obligations” should be used with care.

A program’s unfunded obligation is a way of summarizing its funding shortfall in a single dollar number. Technically speaking, it is the difference between the present value of the projected cost of a program over a specified time period and the present value of projected income (including the initial value of the trust fund). Put another way, the unfunded obligation is the additional money that the trust fund would need today to make the program financially sound for the specified time period. Because present values expressed in dollar terms can be easily confused with annual expenditures or deficits even though the figures are not comparable, unfunded obligations are better displayed as percentages of projected GDP.

The trustees estimate that the unfunded obligation of Social Security for past, current, and future participants is $4.3 trillion over the next 75 years, or the equivalent of 0.6 percent of GDP over that period. The unfunded obligation of the Medicare’s Hospital Insurance Trust Fund over the next 75 years is $12.4 trillion, or 1.6 percent of GDP. The Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund has no unfunded obligation; general revenues cover all spending that is not financed by other dedicated funding sources. However, the trustees report also provides an estimate of the present value of the required general revenue contributions to Parts B and D of Medicare, equal to $23.6 trillion (3.0 percent of GDP) over 75 years.

23.6tn (HI) + 12.4tn (B&D) = 37tn total over the next 75 years

Further, you should consider:

Finally, the Intermediate scenario assumes that GDP will grow at 2.1% per year. For comparison, the actual annual GDP growth rate since 1960 has averaged more than 3.2%

[GaryC 7]

Well, the result of the governments mismanagement by not raising premiums have cause this huge shortfall that we cannot possibly recover from. Wrap this number around your head, 37.8 TRILLION dollars. That is what is needed just to break even. Can you imagine what kind of tax rate we would need to cover that? Sorry man, I just don't see a well managed system there.

What time frame is the basis for this 37.8 trillion figure? What other assumptions have been made to arrive at that number? Once we know that, we can take a look at what kind of raise in the medicare rate it would take. I'm almost certain, however, that the system would remain in good shape if the rates would be raised half of the rate raises that the private health insurance has pushed through. In other words, raise the rate 50% over the next decade and I think we'd be looking a lot better. Alternatively, open the system for a premium below the private insurance rates to people that are net payers - young folks - and the picture will change dramatically for the better w/o the need for dramatic rate increases.

Okay, so the time frame for this prediction is 75 years - leaving an unfunded liability of roughly half a trillion dollars annually (that's in today's dollars). Meanwhile, we already waste roughly 700 billion per year on this fractured and inefficient private insurance dominated health care model - with an upward trend. Seems to me that chasing after this unfunded medicare liability - which wouldn't even be there if Medicare had jacked rates up like the private insurance did - while accepting the much more dramatic waste on the other end of the discussion is somewhat questionable to say the least.

The fund's reserves will be exhausted by 2017, making it insolvent two years earlier than the trustees predicted last year. Medicare's total unfunded obligations, including its programs that use general revenues to pay for doctors' fees and prescription drugs, have reached $37.8 trillion.

Not 75 years Dog, 8 years. That is 4.7 trillion dollars per year. ... Please understand this man, we cannot afford one more trillion dollar project no matter how important you may think it is.

Please understand this, man: Your panic is based on a gross misunderstanding of the facts. There's a difference between exhausting a fund's reserves and the total unfunded liability projections.

Here's to the projections:

Measures of “unfunded obligations” should be used with care.

A program’s unfunded obligation is a way of summarizing its funding shortfall in a single dollar number. Technically speaking, it is the difference between the present value of the projected cost of a program over a specified time period and the present value of projected income (including the initial value of the trust fund). Put another way, the unfunded obligation is the additional money that the trust fund would need today to make the program financially sound for the specified time period. Because present values expressed in dollar terms can be easily confused with annual expenditures or deficits even though the figures are not comparable, unfunded obligations are better displayed as percentages of projected GDP.

The trustees estimate that the unfunded obligation of Social Security for past, current, and future participants is $4.3 trillion over the next 75 years, or the equivalent of 0.6 percent of GDP over that period. The unfunded obligation of the Medicare’s Hospital Insurance Trust Fund over the next 75 years is $12.4 trillion, or 1.6 percent of GDP. The Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund has no unfunded obligation; general revenues cover all spending that is not financed by other dedicated funding sources. However, the trustees report also provides an estimate of the present value of the required general revenue contributions to Parts B and D of Medicare, equal to $23.6 trillion (3.0 percent of GDP) over 75 years.

23.6tn (HI) + 12.4tn (B&D) = 37tn total over the next 75 years

Further, you should consider:

Finally, the Intermediate scenario assumes that GDP will grow at 2.1% per year. For comparison, the actual annual GDP growth rate since 1960 has averaged more than 3.2%

Read and learn my friend. SS and Medicare are going broke. This is the future if the government takes over health care. Here it is from the horses mouth.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well, the result of the governments mismanagement by not raising premiums have cause this huge shortfall that we cannot possibly recover from. Wrap this number around your head, 37.8 TRILLION dollars. That is what is needed just to break even. Can you imagine what kind of tax rate we would need to cover that? Sorry man, I just don't see a well managed system there.

What time frame is the basis for this 37.8 trillion figure? What other assumptions have been made to arrive at that number? Once we know that, we can take a look at what kind of raise in the medicare rate it would take. I'm almost certain, however, that the system would remain in good shape if the rates would be raised half of the rate raises that the private health insurance has pushed through. In other words, raise the rate 50% over the next decade and I think we'd be looking a lot better. Alternatively, open the system for a premium below the private insurance rates to people that are net payers - young folks - and the picture will change dramatically for the better w/o the need for dramatic rate increases.

Okay, so the time frame for this prediction is 75 years - leaving an unfunded liability of roughly half a trillion dollars annually (that's in today's dollars). Meanwhile, we already waste roughly 700 billion per year on this fractured and inefficient private insurance dominated health care model - with an upward trend. Seems to me that chasing after this unfunded medicare liability - which wouldn't even be there if Medicare had jacked rates up like the private insurance did - while accepting the much more dramatic waste on the other end of the discussion is somewhat questionable to say the least.

The fund's reserves will be exhausted by 2017, making it insolvent two years earlier than the trustees predicted last year. Medicare's total unfunded obligations, including its programs that use general revenues to pay for doctors' fees and prescription drugs, have reached $37.8 trillion.

Not 75 years Dog, 8 years. That is 4.7 trillion dollars per year. ... Please understand this man, we cannot afford one more trillion dollar project no matter how important you may think it is.

Please understand this, man: Your panic is based on a gross misunderstanding of the facts. There's a difference between exhausting a fund's reserves and the total unfunded liability projections.

Here's to the projections:

Measures of “unfunded obligations” should be used with care.

A program’s unfunded obligation is a way of summarizing its funding shortfall in a single dollar number. Technically speaking, it is the difference between the present value of the projected cost of a program over a specified time period and the present value of projected income (including the initial value of the trust fund). Put another way, the unfunded obligation is the additional money that the trust fund would need today to make the program financially sound for the specified time period. Because present values expressed in dollar terms can be easily confused with annual expenditures or deficits even though the figures are not comparable, unfunded obligations are better displayed as percentages of projected GDP.

The trustees estimate that the unfunded obligation of Social Security for past, current, and future participants is $4.3 trillion over the next 75 years, or the equivalent of 0.6 percent of GDP over that period. The unfunded obligation of the Medicare’s Hospital Insurance Trust Fund over the next 75 years is $12.4 trillion, or 1.6 percent of GDP. The Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund has no unfunded obligation; general revenues cover all spending that is not financed by other dedicated funding sources. However, the trustees report also provides an estimate of the present value of the required general revenue contributions to Parts B and D of Medicare, equal to $23.6 trillion (3.0 percent of GDP) over 75 years.

23.6tn (HI) + 12.4tn (B&D) = 37tn total over the next 75 years

Further, you should consider:

Finally, the Intermediate scenario assumes that GDP will grow at 2.1% per year. For comparison, the actual annual GDP growth rate since 1960 has averaged more than 3.2%

Read and learn my friend. SS and Medicare are going broke. This is the future if the government takes over health care. Here it is from the horses mouth.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html

I did read it, my friend. And I learned while you did not. Where in that publication is the mentioning of a 37 trillion dollar unfunded liability over the next 8 years? Where is it?

Here is what it does say:

The Medicare Report shows that the HI Trust Fund could be brought into actuarial balance over the next 75 years by changes equivalent to an immediate 134 percent increase in the payroll tax (from a rate of 2.9 percent to 6.78 percent)

Let me try and translate this for you: If Medicare contributions would be increased 134% today (from 2.9% to 6.8%), Medicare would remain adequately funded for the next 75 years. Now, that's a big number and a big increase. I give you that. But consider two things: 1) The Medicare payroll tax has been constant at 2.9% since 1983 - over a quarter centruy. 2) Take a look at how your preferred alternative (private health insurance) has fared on that end: They have increased premiums by well over 100% over the last decade alone and there isn't a reasonable person out there believing that they will now stop pushing premiums up. That 134% increase necessary to keep Medicare funded is far below the funding increases already done by the private insurance and far below the expected premium increases that are to be expected over the next decade. They're more than twice what Medicare would require and that despite the fact that they get to cherry-pick who they will and won't cover. Medicare doesn't have that luxury and still manages to keep the cost of the program down.

Based on that, I take the cost effective government over the wasteful and profit hungry private insurers any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Dollar for dollar, the government is simply doing a much better job providing value.

[Peikko 1,575]

Don't blind them with reality Mr Dog, that's bad for their health