Why Would the AARP Support State-Sponsored Euthanasia?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

[GaryC 7]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

You still don't get it. We just spent trillions on bailouts, trillions on TARP, trillions on stimulus. Social Security and Medicare are already insolvent and only continue due to deficit spending. Medicare, social security and our economy in general will soon go away. There really isn't any stopping it now. Trying to do a government health care project now will just throw gas on the fire. This whole discussion is so short sighted it is beyond understanding. We are in a burning building arguing over whether we should replace the drapes. Come on, please see this. We will not have a government health care system, we will be lucky to have a country at all soon.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Shhhhh! It's a secret!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

'End-of-Life' Counseling Intensifies Health Care Debate

...

A Harvard study released earlier this year directly linked end-of-life counseling with lower health care costs and better quality of life for patients with advanced cancers.

...

In 2010, 40.2 million seniors 65 years and older will be eligible for Medicare. That number is projected to rise to 54.8 million in 2020 and 88.5 million in 2050, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

But Medicare's program for hospital stays is already spilling red ink. A report earlier this year showed that because of rapidly declining revenues, the Medicare trust fund for hospital expenses since last year has been collecting less in taxes and interest income than it pays out in benefits.

The fund's reserves will be exhausted by 2017, making it insolvent two years earlier than the trustees predicted last year. Medicare's total unfunded obligations, including its programs that use general revenues to pay for doctors' fees and prescription drugs, have reached $37.8 trillion.

So end of life counseling not only reduces cost but also betters quality of life for people with advanced cancers. What's the issue?

As for the funding, again, Medicare contributions have been 2.9% for the past 20 years. Private insurance premiums, on the other hand more than doubled over the last decade alone. It is quite obvious that the more seniors we have, the more of a funding requirement there will be. Try and have private insurers do what Medicare does: Cover more people longer with ever more treatment options on a funding inflow that remains stagnant relative to wage growth over two decades. Good luck with that.

Did you read what you quoted? Medicare has a 37.8 TRILLION unfunded obligation. If this is an example of efficiency and a well managed program then I just don't know what to say. That is the GDP of the entire planet! Now you want to add everyone else to this program and expand that shortfall even more! I would say we would pay much less if we just dispensed with the government option all together and went with a total private system. We can't cover that kind of money.

Did you bother to read my response?

Of course I did. You keep going on about how the contribution has only been 2.9% and insurance companies raise premiums have doubled. Well, the result of the governments mismanagement by not raising premiums have cause this huge shortfall that we cannot possibly recover from. Wrap this number around your head, 37.8 TRILLION dollars. That is what is needed just to break even. Can you imagine what kind of tax rate we would need to cover that? Sorry man, I just don't see a well managed system there.

What time frame is the basis for this 37.8 trillion figure? What other assumptions have been made to arrive at that number? Once we know that, we can take a look at what kind of raise in the medicare rate it would take. I'm almost certain, however, that the system would remain in good shape if the rates would be raised half of the rate raises that the private health insurance has pushed through. In other words, raise the rate 50% over the next decade and I think we'd be looking a lot better. Alternatively, open the system for a premium below the private insurance rates to people that are net payers - young folks - and the picture will change dramatically for the better w/o the need for dramatic rate increases.

Okay, so the time frame for this prediction is 75 years - leaving an unfunded liability of roughly half a trillion dollars annually (that's in today's dollars). Meanwhile, we already waste roughly 700 billion per year on this fractured and inefficient private insurance dominated health care model - with an upward trend. Seems to me that chasing after this unfunded medicare liability - which wouldn't even be there if Medicare had jacked rates up like the private insurance did - while accepting the much more dramatic waste on the other end of the discussion is somewhat questionable to say the least.

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[Ban Hammer 13,716]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

and it does not bother you that the government is telling you that you cannot have private insurance?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

and it does not bother you that the government is telling you that you cannot have private insurance?

Not really as long as I have insurance that affords me access to health care. It would bother me even less if said insurance wouldn't finance the current excesses of the private health insurers and would, hence, come at more reasonable rates. Besides, there aren't many single payer systems out there that do not allow for supplemental insurance plans that would cover what the single payer systems doesn't cover.

[GaryC 7]

'End-of-Life' Counseling Intensifies Health Care Debate

...

A Harvard study released earlier this year directly linked end-of-life counseling with lower health care costs and better quality of life for patients with advanced cancers.

...

In 2010, 40.2 million seniors 65 years and older will be eligible for Medicare. That number is projected to rise to 54.8 million in 2020 and 88.5 million in 2050, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

But Medicare's program for hospital stays is already spilling red ink. A report earlier this year showed that because of rapidly declining revenues, the Medicare trust fund for hospital expenses since last year has been collecting less in taxes and interest income than it pays out in benefits.

The fund's reserves will be exhausted by 2017, making it insolvent two years earlier than the trustees predicted last year. Medicare's total unfunded obligations, including its programs that use general revenues to pay for doctors' fees and prescription drugs, have reached $37.8 trillion.

So end of life counseling not only reduces cost but also betters quality of life for people with advanced cancers. What's the issue?

As for the funding, again, Medicare contributions have been 2.9% for the past 20 years. Private insurance premiums, on the other hand more than doubled over the last decade alone. It is quite obvious that the more seniors we have, the more of a funding requirement there will be. Try and have private insurers do what Medicare does: Cover more people longer with ever more treatment options on a funding inflow that remains stagnant relative to wage growth over two decades. Good luck with that.

Did you read what you quoted? Medicare has a 37.8 TRILLION unfunded obligation. If this is an example of efficiency and a well managed program then I just don't know what to say. That is the GDP of the entire planet! Now you want to add everyone else to this program and expand that shortfall even more! I would say we would pay much less if we just dispensed with the government option all together and went with a total private system. We can't cover that kind of money.

Did you bother to read my response?

Of course I did. You keep going on about how the contribution has only been 2.9% and insurance companies raise premiums have doubled. Well, the result of the governments mismanagement by not raising premiums have cause this huge shortfall that we cannot possibly recover from. Wrap this number around your head, 37.8 TRILLION dollars. That is what is needed just to break even. Can you imagine what kind of tax rate we would need to cover that? Sorry man, I just don't see a well managed system there.

What time frame is the basis for this 37.8 trillion figure? What other assumptions have been made to arrive at that number? Once we know that, we can take a look at what kind of raise in the medicare rate it would take. I'm almost certain, however, that the system would remain in good shape if the rates would be raised half of the rate raises that the private health insurance has pushed through. In other words, raise the rate 50% over the next decade and I think we'd be looking a lot better. Alternatively, open the system for a premium below the private insurance rates to people that are net payers - young folks - and the picture will change dramatically for the better w/o the need for dramatic rate increases.

Okay, so the time frame for this prediction is 75 years - leaving an unfunded liability of roughly half a trillion dollars annually (that's in today's dollars). Meanwhile, we already waste roughly 700 billion per year on this fractured and inefficient private insurance dominated health care model - with an upward trend. Seems to me that chasing after this unfunded medicare liability - which wouldn't even be there if Medicare had jacked rates up like the private insurance did - while accepting the much more dramatic waste on the other end of the discussion is somewhat questionable to say the least.

The fund's reserves will be exhausted by 2017, making it insolvent two years earlier than the trustees predicted last year. Medicare's total unfunded obligations, including its programs that use general revenues to pay for doctors' fees and prescription drugs, have reached $37.8 trillion.

Not 75 years Dog, 8 years. That is 4.7 trillion dollars per year. How can we even think of doing another trillion dollar project when the prototype of their plan, medicare, is drowning in that much red ink? This isn't even counting SS. It has also reached the point where todays workers are supporting todays retirees. As the population ages that ratio will only increase. Please understand this man, we cannot afford one more trillion dollar project no matter how important you may think it is.

[Ban Hammer 13,716]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

and it does not bother you that the government is telling you that you cannot have private insurance?

Not really as long as I have insurance that affords me access to health care. It would bother me even less if said insurance wouldn't finance the current excesses of the private health insurers and would, hence, come at more reasonable rates. Besides, there aren't many single payer systems out there that do not allow for supplemental insurance plans that would cover what the single payer systems doesn't cover.

you have fun then with the government telling you what you can and cant' do.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

and it does not bother you that the government is telling you that you cannot have private insurance?

Not really as long as I have insurance that affords me access to health care. It would bother me even less if said insurance wouldn't finance the current excesses of the private health insurers and would, hence, come at more reasonable rates. Besides, there aren't many single payer systems out there that do not allow for supplemental insurance plans that would cover what the single payer systems doesn't cover.

you have fun then with the government telling you what you can and cant' do.

Why did you hate being in the military?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

and it does not bother you that the government is telling you that you cannot have private insurance?

Not really as long as I have insurance that affords me access to health care. It would bother me even less if said insurance wouldn't finance the current excesses of the private health insurers and would, hence, come at more reasonable rates. Besides, there aren't many single payer systems out there that do not allow for supplemental insurance plans that would cover what the single payer systems doesn't cover.

you have fun then with the government telling you what you can and cant' do.

Well, today it's a profit oriented private health insurance industry that dictates that and by almost all measures, we're not better off for it.

[Ban Hammer 13,716]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

and it does not bother you that the government is telling you that you cannot have private insurance?

Not really as long as I have insurance that affords me access to health care. It would bother me even less if said insurance wouldn't finance the current excesses of the private health insurers and would, hence, come at more reasonable rates. Besides, there aren't many single payer systems out there that do not allow for supplemental insurance plans that would cover what the single payer systems doesn't cover.

you have fun then with the government telling you what you can and cant' do.

Why did you hate being in the military?

i'm not in the military.

[Tahoma 2,292]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

and it does not bother you that the government is telling you that you cannot have private insurance?

Not really as long as I have insurance that affords me access to health care. It would bother me even less if said insurance wouldn't finance the current excesses of the private health insurers and would, hence, come at more reasonable rates. Besides, there aren't many single payer systems out there that do not allow for supplemental insurance plans that would cover what the single payer systems doesn't cover.

you have fun then with the government telling you what you can and cant' do.

Why did you hate being in the military?

i'm not in the military.

How's that socialist Tricare working out for you, Charles?

[Ban Hammer 13,716]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

and it does not bother you that the government is telling you that you cannot have private insurance?

Not really as long as I have insurance that affords me access to health care. It would bother me even less if said insurance wouldn't finance the current excesses of the private health insurers and would, hence, come at more reasonable rates. Besides, there aren't many single payer systems out there that do not allow for supplemental insurance plans that would cover what the single payer systems doesn't cover.

you have fun then with the government telling you what you can and cant' do.

Why did you hate being in the military?

i'm not in the military.

How's that socialist Tricare working out for you, Charles?

can't be socialist as the left wingers don't want it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gary, all fine and well. What's the alternative to Medicare? Private Insurance?

If you had watched the youtube clip I posted, you would have seen Rahm Emmanuel himself explain that they intend to end Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, but they don't want to tell you that right up front coz you might panic.

Naturally, in a single payer system the many components of today's fractured system would be obsolete. No panic here.

and it does not bother you that the government is telling you that you cannot have private insurance?

Not really as long as I have insurance that affords me access to health care. It would bother me even less if said insurance wouldn't finance the current excesses of the private health insurers and would, hence, come at more reasonable rates. Besides, there aren't many single payer systems out there that do not allow for supplemental insurance plans that would cover what the single payer systems doesn't cover.

you have fun then with the government telling you what you can and cant' do.

Why did you hate being in the military?

i'm not in the military.

How's that socialist Tricare working out for you, Charles?

can't be socialist as the left wingers don't want it.

Must be a socialist scam, though, since it's government run.