Single-Payer Groceries, Anyone?

[mRx 16]

Ok. No competition in healthcare? How would one create that competition? An example.

Say that I am a manufacturer of the Flux Capacitor. And these things are amazing; everyone needs one. Assume that with all the production factors, including my labor, this Flux Capacitor costs me $200 to produce. So I, being the clever businessman that I am, realizing this amazing demand, decide to charge $2,000 for one. The consumers are outraged by this, but what can they do? Obviously, not everyone can afford one, but what do I care?

This is where competition comes in to play: That price is not just a number. It's not just what someone pays. It's a signal--A signal to other individuals to enter the Flux Capacitor industry. They see me sitting on my mountain of cash, and they want some. So, say that you decide that being an Engineer just ain't cutting it, and you decide to apply your skills in the Flux Capacitor industry. For simplicity, assume that you are as comparably capable of manufacturing Flux Capacitors as I.

Now, what will you charge for the Flux Capacitor? You could charge more than $2,000. But if my $2,000 Flux Capacitor is the same quality as yours, you'll quickly be back to your previous job as an Engineer. You could charge the same as me, which would clearly take away some of my prospective Flux Capacitor customers, which may induce me to lower my price in order to bring these customers back. Or, if you're an attentive entrepreneur, you'll charge less than me. Say, $1000. (Don't mind the numbers; they're arbitrary. I'm merely illustrating the difference) This will strip away my customers, as few would pay $2,000 when they could get the same thing for $1,000. Since it costs us only $200 to produce, your still making a nice profit. So, I could sit idly and lose my business, or, if I were an attentive entrepreneur, I would lower my prices, and undercut you. Say, $500. The point is, that this competition between you and I places downward pressure on prices for our supply.

The economic theory of competition is deduced from the laws of supply and demand.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Ah, so that's why you didn't respond. It wasn't because your thesis is built on a shaky house of cards.

Didn't respond to what?

Ya' kidding me?

Post 34. You can track it from there.

You want me to address the issue of whether or not government is the answer to this nation's ailing health insurance system? I can reference actual examples that it indeed would seem to be the answer. Case in point: Any government, anywhere in the world, including here in the US is doing a better and more efficient job of running health insurance. Also, governments are doing a better job of containing cost in the health care delivery. Take a look at the developed world and point out to me just one nation where the government ensures that the entire population is covered on their basic health care needs that actually runs a health care delivery cost higher than what we have here. Actual examples. I'll be happy with just one. Then we'll talk why government isn't the answer to the health insurance issue America faces.

[Niels Bohr 72]

I know what competition is about in terms of economics. It creates a competitive pricing environment that generally is in favor for the consumer. But, in terms of healthcare, how does one create something in the healthcare which makes it competitive.

The technologies that they used are as diverse from several different vendors offering the same type of product. For example, the heart rate monitor, ekg machines has several vendors that manufacture them. I do not understand where it means to be competitive within healthcare. What is that? How would one actually challenge healthcare?

[mRx 16]

I know what competition is about in terms of economics. It creates a competitive pricing environment that generally is in favor for the consumer. But, in terms of healthcare, how does one create something in the healthcare which makes it competitive.

The technologies that they used are as diverse from several different vendors offering the same type of product. For example, the heart rate monitor, ekg machines has several vendors that manufacture them. I do not understand where it means to be competitive within healthcare. What is that? How would one actually challenge healthcare?

Competition always favors the consumer. Suppliers always try to find ways to turn the tables. In a system where individuals voluntarily make exchanges, it's survival of the fittest. The best product for the best price wins. This creates sore losers, who in the free-market would be forced to consider a career change. There are 2 methods that I know of, how a business could usurp these natural laws of competition. One is violence: A good example is the drug violence down south. Drug suppliers killing other drug suppliers in order to rid themselves of competition. But a more modern, non-Draconian method of anti-market competition elimination is government:

As I've stated, the competition-supression in healthcare is complex with many Bureaus, Administrations, and Agencies, each filling their unique part of the puzzle.

First you have the JCAHO, which runs under a laughable NPO status, that ranks healthcare institutions. Innocuous enough, right? Wrong. This parasitic bureaucracy controls the supply of healthcare institutions. It's tricky how they do it, as well. If an institution doesn't follow their guidelines, then they lose their Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement status. With over 100 million people enrolled, the non-compliance institutions are finished. The JCAHO is augmented by the AMA, which is like the ultimate healthcare union, who lobby for state medical school closures, reductions in staffing, and reduced medical student seats. If you went through an economics class you may recall that a reduction in supply of an inelastic good equals an increase in profit. While merely a piece of the puzzle, I'm sure you can see how this leads to rising prices.

There's a whole myriad of alphabet-soup agencies that reinforce the cartel.

When I say competition in healthcare, I don't mean other industries competing with the healthcare industry. Healthcare is an inelastic good. I mean that there could exist competition in healthcare just as in the food industry, or the baby-sitter industry. Relative freedom to become a supplier, fosters competition and creates options, which pushes down prices.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But a more modern, non-Draconian method of anti-market competition elimination is government:

And I thought concentration and monopolization stifle markets and governments in many countries take steps to prevent monopolies in order to maintain competitive and, hence, functioning markets. There's no validity to that?

How about product safety and consumer protection? In the health care field, we're talking life and death issues when it comes to these aspects. The market will regulate that? What's the body count we're willing to accept on unsafe drugs and procedures until the consumer shies away from such products? Or are we going to do the self regulation thing? The independent, manufaturer sponsored agencies akin of Moody's and S&P which have done such a terrific job evaluating and ensuring the safety of various investment vehicles before putting their triple A stamps on them.

This ain't the 1920's, man. This isn't farmers exchanging their carrots and potatos. Nor is it some fictional, theoretical playing field. It's an interdependent global economy depended on goods and services that are so complex that individual consumers would have a hard time making intelligent choices. I know that I can't neccesarily make the best choices when it comes to my options in various available health care products and procedures. I'll need a qualified medical professional to walk me through this on a very high level outlining all the pro's and con's. I'd rather that professional meets a high standard of qualifications that's been assessed by a party that isn't paid by the school he attends to certify that said school has a high output of quality physicians.

I can just envision the flood of toxic assets in the health care field. :shudders:

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I know what competition is about in terms of economics. It creates a competitive pricing environment that generally is in favor for the consumer. But, in terms of healthcare, how does one create something in the healthcare which makes it competitive.

The technologies that they used are as diverse from several different vendors offering the same type of product. For example, the heart rate monitor, ekg machines has several vendors that manufacture them. I do not understand where it means to be competitive within healthcare. What is that? How would one actually challenge healthcare?

You market your new prescription drugs to the public via glossy TV ads showing people playing with their kids in flowery meadows, riding a bike or windsurfing in the water off a bone white beach

"Ask your doctor if Whateveril will work for you. Side effects may include: Nausea, dry mouth, stroke, heart attack and death"

Self medication - FTW!!!

Edited August 10, 2009 by Private Pike