Federal Gestapo Services ask good citizens to report any emails about health insurance reform that seem "fishy" to flag@whitehouse.gov

[HAL 9000 96]

Someone yell fire inside a movie theater and claim free speech too. This is simply insane trying to rationalize those that would rather lie and misinform than stick to what is factual.

I think the point here is this is being forced through without a full airing. The lack of understanding by everyone fuels speculation. Fear is a natural outcome. The points that the right are bringing up are a direct result of this. We are unwilling to just accept that we just trust washington to do the right thing. We take inconsistencies and take them to the worst possible outcome and the other side is taking those inconsistencies and saying there is nothing to worry about. Just take the time to get it right and remove the vague language so neither side has the ability to misunderstand.

We are allowing politicians to mislead and flat-out lie to us regarding this legislation. If more time were spent actually going through the bill (with full questioning when issues arise) instead of contributing to sour-graped lie campaigns... an honest debate could develop in less time and we'd likely have this bill already signed-

with private insurers insuring their customers all the same.

[HAL 9000 96]

That's very disingenuous. The postal service is not going bankrupt because of anything the postal service did wrong. Providing mail to all citizens was always expensive, but when there was massive volumes of mail, the super expensive routes (boonies) could be mitigated by the super profitable routes (urban conglomerations). People simply are not sending the volumes of mail that are required to make the system work any more.

There's a simple solution: raise the price of a stamp. And I mean RAISE it, not just by a couple of cents.

But no... all rate increases have to be approved by the Postal Rate Commission, which holds hearings

on rates proposed by the Postal Service, then recommends the rates to the Postal Service Board of

Governors, which in turn may accept or reject the rates.

Government bureaucracy at its best.

That's because you don't want to cause a sudden decrease in usage even more than what internet commerce has done to reduce paper mail.

Gradual changes in price are usually more popular with constituents (*that use these services*) than sudden ones.

[natty bumppo 297]

Someone yell fire inside a movie theater and claim free speech too. This is simply insane trying to rationalize those that would rather lie and misinform than stick to what is factual.

I think the point here is this is being forced through without a full airing. The lack of understanding by everyone fuels speculation. Fear is a natural outcome. The points that the right are bringing up are a direct result of this. We are unwilling to just accept that we just trust washington to do the right thing. We take inconsistencies and take them to the worst possible outcome and the other side is taking those inconsistencies and saying there is nothing to worry about. Just take the time to get it right and remove the vague language so neither side has the ability to misunderstand.

We are allowing politicians to mislead and flat-out lie to us regarding this legislation. If more time were spent actually going through the bill (with full questioning when issues arise) instead of contributing to sour-graped lie campaigns... an honest debate could develop in less time and we'd likely have this bill already signed-

with private insurers insuring their customers all the same.

omg ... really?!? this has never happened before ...

[mawilson 2,133]

That's because you don't want to cause a sudden decrease in usage even more than what internet commerce has done to reduce paper mail.

Gradual changes in price are usually more popular with constituents (*that use these services*) than sudden ones.

A business is not a popularity contest - you do what you have to to survive.

Besides, there are no private alternatives to the Postal Service - if all you want to do is mail

a simple letter, they are the only game in town.

[GaryC 7]

Someone yell fire inside a movie theater and claim free speech too. This is simply insane trying to rationalize those that would rather lie and misinform than stick to what is factual.

I think the point here is this is being forced through without a full airing. The lack of understanding by everyone fuels speculation. Fear is a natural outcome. The points that the right are bringing up are a direct result of this. We are unwilling to just accept that we just trust washington to do the right thing. We take inconsistencies and take them to the worst possible outcome and the other side is taking those inconsistencies and saying there is nothing to worry about. Just take the time to get it right and remove the vague language so neither side has the ability to misunderstand.

We are allowing politicians to mislead and flat-out lie to us regarding this legislation. If more time were spent actually going through the bill (with full questioning when issues arise) instead of contributing to sour-graped lie campaigns... an honest debate could develop in less time and we'd likely have this bill already signed-

with private insurers insuring their customers all the same.

If you are including both sides in this observation then we are in agreement. Misinformation is rampant on both sides.

[HAL 9000 96]

Someone yell fire inside a movie theater and claim free speech too. This is simply insane trying to rationalize those that would rather lie and misinform than stick to what is factual.

I think the point here is this is being forced through without a full airing. The lack of understanding by everyone fuels speculation. Fear is a natural outcome. The points that the right are bringing up are a direct result of this. We are unwilling to just accept that we just trust washington to do the right thing. We take inconsistencies and take them to the worst possible outcome and the other side is taking those inconsistencies and saying there is nothing to worry about. Just take the time to get it right and remove the vague language so neither side has the ability to misunderstand.

We are allowing politicians to mislead and flat-out lie to us regarding this legislation. If more time were spent actually going through the bill (with full questioning when issues arise) instead of contributing to sour-graped lie campaigns... an honest debate could develop in less time and we'd likely have this bill already signed-

with private insurers insuring their customers all the same.

omg ... really?!? this has never happened before ...

Well I am being quite specific aren't I?

Its not fun being identified with the side that's lying just to be obstructive isn't it?

That's because you don't want to cause a sudden decrease in usage even more than what internet commerce has done to reduce paper mail.

Gradual changes in price are usually more popular with constituents (*that use these services*) than sudden ones.

A business is not a popularity contest - you do what you have to to survive.

Besides, there are no private alternatives to the Postal Service - if all you want to do is mail

a simple letter, they are the only game in town.

Then by all means... get the Pony Express back in business.

Or invest in PFC delivery through UPS/FedEx/DHL/Etc so as to create a larger market.

[HAL 9000 96]

Someone yell fire inside a movie theater and claim free speech too. This is simply insane trying to rationalize those that would rather lie and misinform than stick to what is factual.

I think the point here is this is being forced through without a full airing. The lack of understanding by everyone fuels speculation. Fear is a natural outcome. The points that the right are bringing up are a direct result of this. We are unwilling to just accept that we just trust washington to do the right thing. We take inconsistencies and take them to the worst possible outcome and the other side is taking those inconsistencies and saying there is nothing to worry about. Just take the time to get it right and remove the vague language so neither side has the ability to misunderstand.

We are allowing politicians to mislead and flat-out lie to us regarding this legislation. If more time were spent actually going through the bill (with full questioning when issues arise) instead of contributing to sour-graped lie campaigns... an honest debate could develop in less time and we'd likely have this bill already signed-

with private insurers insuring their customers all the same.

If you are including both sides in this observation then we are in agreement. Misinformation is rampant on both sides.

It is, generally. Such has always been the game historically... unless we pay attention to the facts and then it all comes down to how people want to pay attention to them. In THIS particular issue... the writing can't be clearer. Republicans (mostly) are being obstructive and the uninsured/underinsured/insured with carriers that can screw them over are going to continue getting shafted.

[NickD 203]

One of dem New England states, Massachusetts or New Hampshire had a mandatory health insurance coverage for all small businesses. The state had minimum requirement coverage that is met, would grant the businessman some kind of token tax refund. This law opened the door for the bad guys advertising false policies and claiming to meet the state's requirement.

We have crooks all over the place, I do not see any harm in reporting these to the government, catching crooks is part of their job. Now if they pass a law where we can shoot them, then no need to report it to the government.

[Peikko 1,575]

That's because you don't want to cause a sudden decrease in usage even more than what internet commerce has done to reduce paper mail.

Gradual changes in price are usually more popular with constituents (*that use these services*) than sudden ones.

A business is not a popularity contest - you do what you have to to survive.

Besides, there are no private alternatives to the Postal Service - if all you want to do is mail

a simple letter, they are the only game in town.

There is not enough volume period. The only people that use snail mail regularly are businesses and putting the cost up would make business costs prohibitive - they would find alternatives, which they already have done in parcels for the most part. It is perfectly possible to make a viable postal service but not one that serves all citizens - that is what the US Mail service is charged with.

[HAL 9000 96]

Or it could just be people wanting to stem the tide of lies being propagated about THIS particular issue? Oh the horror.

[GaryC 7]

Someone yell fire inside a movie theater and claim free speech too. This is simply insane trying to rationalize those that would rather lie and misinform than stick to what is factual.

I think the point here is this is being forced through without a full airing. The lack of understanding by everyone fuels speculation. Fear is a natural outcome. The points that the right are bringing up are a direct result of this. We are unwilling to just accept that we just trust washington to do the right thing. We take inconsistencies and take them to the worst possible outcome and the other side is taking those inconsistencies and saying there is nothing to worry about. Just take the time to get it right and remove the vague language so neither side has the ability to misunderstand.

We are allowing politicians to mislead and flat-out lie to us regarding this legislation. If more time were spent actually going through the bill (with full questioning when issues arise) instead of contributing to sour-graped lie campaigns... an honest debate could develop in less time and we'd likely have this bill already signed-

with private insurers insuring their customers all the same.

If you are including both sides in this observation then we are in agreement. Misinformation is rampant on both sides.

It is, generally. Such has always been the game historically... unless we pay attention to the facts and then it all comes down to how people want to pay attention to them. In THIS particular issue... the writing can't be clearer. Republicans (mostly) are being obstructive and the uninsured/underinsured/insured with carriers that can screw them over are going to continue getting shafted.

We are being obstructive because we don't like what we see. What do you want, we just back off and let them do whatever they want? The right is being shut out of any input in Washington. Every amendment or change to the bill is met with an instant slapdown. In effect the only thing we can do is oppose the whole thing. Short of rolling over we are doing the only thing we can do.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its kinda like what happened in GWB's first term - when they had the big majority.

Can't blame them really - duplicity and ignorance seems to be central to this country's political dialogs (likely a reason that people listen to Talk Radio, and "personality" news shows).

[Peikko 1,575]

Do you really identify that closely with Republican politicians Gary? I don't identify with any one group at all - on an individual basis perhaps - although even then...

[HAL 9000 96]

Someone yell fire inside a movie theater and claim free speech too. This is simply insane trying to rationalize those that would rather lie and misinform than stick to what is factual.

I think the point here is this is being forced through without a full airing. The lack of understanding by everyone fuels speculation. Fear is a natural outcome. The points that the right are bringing up are a direct result of this. We are unwilling to just accept that we just trust washington to do the right thing. We take inconsistencies and take them to the worst possible outcome and the other side is taking those inconsistencies and saying there is nothing to worry about. Just take the time to get it right and remove the vague language so neither side has the ability to misunderstand.

We are allowing politicians to mislead and flat-out lie to us regarding this legislation. If more time were spent actually going through the bill (with full questioning when issues arise) instead of contributing to sour-graped lie campaigns... an honest debate could develop in less time and we'd likely have this bill already signed-

with private insurers insuring their customers all the same.

If you are including both sides in this observation then we are in agreement. Misinformation is rampant on both sides.

It is, generally. Such has always been the game historically... unless we pay attention to the facts and then it all comes down to how people want to pay attention to them. In THIS particular issue... the writing can't be clearer. Republicans (mostly) are being obstructive and the uninsured/underinsured/insured with carriers that can screw them over are going to continue getting shafted.

We are being obstructive because we don't like what we see. What do you want, we just back off and let them do whatever they want? The right is being shut out of any input in Washington. Every amendment or change to the bill is met with an instant slapdown. In effect the only thing we can do is oppose the whole thing. Short of rolling over we are doing the only thing we can do.

Slapdown?

Gary... that is how the legislative procedure works. Constituents vote for their representation. The members of Congress draft bills... they are debated and voted on.

Instead of making weird talking points that are NOT realistic and NOT covered in the legislation... many Republicans have adopted a strategy of misinformation. If they wanted to discuss about actual points in the bill that actually EXISTED in the bill, then there'd be a valid forum to debate them.

There are not.

Its kinda like what happened in GWB's first term - when they had the big majority.

Can't blame them really - duplicity and ignorance seems to be central to this country's political dialogs (likely a reason that people listen to Talk Radio, and "personality" news shows).

And even when the tide was all about going after OBL, the minority went along with the majority.

Republicans now at this time aren't even entertaining the idea of having buyers remorse as the Democrats have famously claimed regarding those times. And they want to talk about having alternative viewpoints yet don't want to respect the voters' mandate.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I find the mob aspect in this democracy rather depressing, tbh. As I say I think it has a lot to do with the popularity of certain types of news programming.