Federal Gestapo Services ask good citizens to report any emails about health insurance reform that seem "fishy" to flag@whitehouse.gov

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Oh well, this discussion is moot anyway. Health care reform isn't going to pass. So let the left wing nuts rant all they want. Now that the public is paying attention the support for this mess has fallen and will continue to fall.

Yes, and Obama isn't going to win the primaries, let alone the general election. Your crystal ball is bust, Gary, get a refund.

Oh really? I would say your in denial.

SCRAP HEALTH CARE REFORM IF IT ADDS TO DEFICIT,

U.S. VOTERS TELL QUINNIPIAC UNIVERSITY NATIONAL POLL;

VOTERS DISAPPROVE OF OBAMA’S HANDLING OF HEALTH CARE

Yes, Gary, you told me that then and showed me all these little polls when you made the two predictions I referred to earlier. And see where that got you. Seriously, get a refund for that crystal ball of yours. I'm telling you that as a friend. It just ain't working.

The only poll I trust is the Intrade Prediction Market poll (if you can call it that.) Intrade accurately predicted

Obama's victory months before it happened with a probability of 70%.

Here's how Intrade estimates the chances of "a federal government run health insurance plan

to be approved before midnight ET 31 Dec 2009":

45%, folks. Not looking good.

The contract name is "US.GOVT.HEALTHPLAN.DEC09" for those of you who want to put your money

where your mouth is. If you're 100% sure it'll pass, invest $45 and you will get $100 when the contract

is settled. If you're sure it will fail, sell short a contract for $45 and get $100 when it fails (or pay the

winner $55 otherwise.)

The trend is encouraging, however.

[G&R 0]

Its not a very useful way to go about it, IMO.

Why not? Imagine if it were a corporation like Monsanto and people were going around distributing misinformation about one of their products...they'd take them to court in a heart beat. There's no intrusion whatsoever of any constitutional protections in the attempt to address deliberate misinformation that is being disseminated by political operatives. In the business world, this would be libelous.

yea ... the owners of the gov't (the citizens) are gonna be taken to court for speaking out .

can't wait to see how this will play in peoria

Not very well I can tell you. This is SO funny to watch. I thought Obama was going to be the great uniter. I heard predictions that everyone would join hands because of him. This makes Bush look good by comparison. The good news is the flower is off the bloom and it looks like very little more will get done. If Obama can't get this health care through with super majorities in both houses and a "mandate" from the people I doubt if it will never happen. It also does not bode well for the chances for cap and trade. Just watch what happens when that issue is brought to the front. This is the best possible outcome. I can't wait to see what happens next year when the next elections begin.

Good job of looking ahead..Gary

[natty bumppo 297]

cost containment ain't exactly a gov't speciality ...

No, it isn't. But government run health care is a heck of a of less expensive than the sad mistake of a private insurance dominated system that plagues this nation. I said it many times before and I'll say it again: Government run health care in any developed country anywhere in the world - including right here in the US - is by far more efficient than any private insurance based system. Period.

The one time I requested gov't assistance ... well lets just say it was a disappointment. I've paid a horrendous amount in taxes as a DINK. I want it back ... meaning .... I will not pay for a gov't service when I need.

Will the gov't give me that? ... no. Until that day ... obama can anally rend and torture himself ....

[natty bumppo 297]

And that's another topic altogether. Perhaps better legislation to have better accountability? Things change.

that should be part of this legislation. think we can get it drafted and put in?

It can be written up later I presume. Of the many things people smell coming our way, I think that wouldn't be too hard to detect.

write it up now ... or it doesn't exist. the safety of the future is today ... not on an empty promise or a feel good.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Natty Bumppo

[natty bumppo 297]

Oh well, this discussion is moot anyway. Health care reform isn't going to pass. So let the left wing nuts rant all they want. Now that the public is paying attention the support for this mess has fallen and will continue to fall.

Yes, and Obama isn't going to win the primaries, let alone the general election. Your crystal ball is bust, Gary, get a refund.

steven .. you're in CA .. the land of the failures. guess you're excited for a bail-out.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

i'm amazed that so many of you believe the government can do such a better job and keep costs down. maybe i can sell them some $500 knee reflex hammers.

Medicare has a 3 percent overhead and is 44 years running. Can you top that among private insurance companies?

1) Every dime of the so-called Medicare "cost savings" is passed on to the privately insured

via higher premiums.

2) Medicare is BANKRUPT!!!!

"Madoff took money from newer investors to pay earlier ones, just as Medicare takes money

from current workers to fund the retired. However, Medicare has reached a "Madoff moment"

when income from current workers is less than what is paid out. In other words, Medicare is

bankrupt, and if Medicare was a private company, the government would shut it down because

of insolvency. In its current state, Medicare has an unfunded liability for future retirees of about

45 trillion dollars, which is just about equal the annual World GDP before the recession shrunk it." (link)

Back to blogs to make a point?

[natty bumppo 297]

I'm willing to bet luckytxn doesn't have a college degree.

which has zero to do with the conversation at hand.

True but we know why they resort to base behavior.

Just an observation from your Rainman obsession over the word, 'socialist.' I don't think you know what it means if it hit you over the head.

You delivered as expected ....

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm willing to bet luckytxn doesn't have a college degree.

which has zero to do with the conversation at hand.

True but we know why they resort to base behavior.

Just an observation from your Rainman obsession over the word, 'socialist.' I don't think you know what it means if it hit you over the head.

You delivered as expected ....

He makes a very valid point: Anyone that seriously claims that Obama is a socialist or that he pursues a socialist agenda hasn't got the first fcuking clue what socialism actually is and what an actual socialist agenda looks like. Plain and simple, really.

[natty bumppo 297]

I'm willing to bet luckytxn doesn't have a college degree.

which has zero to do with the conversation at hand.

True but we know why they resort to base behavior.

Just an observation from your Rainman obsession over the word, 'socialist.' I don't think you know what it means if it hit you over the head.

You delivered as expected ....

He makes a very valid point: Anyone that seriously claims that Obama is a socialist or that he pursues a socialist agenda hasn't got the first fcuking clue what socialism actually is and what an actual socialist agenda looks like. Plain and simple, really.

lot's of assumptions in your post ...

wanna go get a beer,talk about the beach, scenery ... then flip over who pays instead?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm willing to bet luckytxn doesn't have a college degree.

which has zero to do with the conversation at hand.

True but we know why they resort to base behavior.

Just an observation from your Rainman obsession over the word, 'socialist.' I don't think you know what it means if it hit you over the head.

You delivered as expected ....

He makes a very valid point: Anyone that seriously claims that Obama is a socialist or that he pursues a socialist agenda hasn't got the first fcuking clue what socialism actually is and what an actual socialist agenda looks like. Plain and simple, really.

lot's of assumptions in your post ...

What assumptions, precisely?

[natty bumppo 297]

I'm willing to bet luckytxn doesn't have a college degree.

which has zero to do with the conversation at hand.

True but we know why they resort to base behavior.

Just an observation from your Rainman obsession over the word, 'socialist.' I don't think you know what it means if it hit you over the head.

You delivered as expected ....

He makes a very valid point: Anyone that seriously claims that Obama is a socialist or that he pursues a socialist agenda hasn't got the first fcuking clue what socialism actually is and what an actual socialist agenda looks like. Plain and simple, really.

lot's of assumptions in your post ...

What assumptions, precisely?

the words ...

"I don't think you know... "

Lot's of assumptions there ...

Edited August 8, 2009 by Natty Bumppo

[luckytxn 2,264]

Just revel in your Socialist tendencies and be proud. It is only a bad thing if you allow it to be. As for me I will call em as I see em. I remember not long ago you Socialists were using isms and still do for the other major party over and over to ad nauseam and it was ok for y'all. Well believe it or not it is ok all the way around.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

The right is being shut out of any input in Washington. Every amendment or change to the bill is met with an instant slapdown. In effect the only thing we can do is oppose the whole thing. Short of rolling over we are doing the only thing we can do.

That's factually incorrect, Gary.

Take the advance care planning provision of H.R. 3200, for example. The AARP strongly supports this provision which actually made it into the legislation with Republicans co-sponsoring it. Once this bi-partisan provision makes it into the legislation, the GOP then turns around and blasts the legislation that will lead us down a "treacherous path towards government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law". This is about as ill-spirited and dishonest an allegation as one could possibly imagine. Is this the bi-partisanship that the GOP allegedly is looking for? Don't kid yourself and others, Gary.

There's one goal the GOP has on healthcare reform and Sen. Jim DeMint was kind enough to share that goal with the public: To make health care reform Obama's Waterloo. The GOP is interested neither in compromise nor in bi-partisanship. The GOP is interested in maintaining the status quo on health care. The GOP is interested in wasting $700bn per year on a broken system while leaving tens of millions of Americans on the outside looking in on health care.

Harrumph!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Just revel in your Socialist tendencies and be proud. It is only a bad thing if you allow it to be. As for me I will call em as I see em. I remember not long ago you Socialists were using isms and still do for the other major party over and over to ad nauseam and it was ok for y'all. Well believe it or not it is ok all the way around.

That would require honesty. I don't know a single honest liberal.... google 'political correctness'

[luckytxn 2,264]

And there are honest politicians in the GOP? I know of one that I like and that is all.