More GOP crazy: "Town hells!"

[GaryC 7]

We're talking about healthcare reform and town hall meetings being disrupted by thugs because Obama's trying to deliver on his promise, but the minority (the ones who didn't vote for him) are having a temper tantrum because they want it their way even though their way lost the election.

so just because obama won the election ... those that didn't vote for him have to blindly follow his agenda without voicing opposing views? they must be silent or sing his praises?

Of course not. But what are they all up in arms about? Because he's not delivering on his campaign promise? Hardly. That's just sour grapes. If people oppose his plan, they have every means to public debate the merits of their point of view. But thugs showing up to town hall meetings, with the specific purpose of deliberately misleading the public is not democracy...it's thuggery.

From your point of view. I see them as patriots fighting a bad bill. That is my point of view. The sour grapes are yours my friend. Freedom of Speech goes both ways you know.

[Peikko 1,575]

We're talking about healthcare reform and town hall meetings being disrupted by thugs because Obama's trying to deliver on his promise, but the minority (the ones who didn't vote for him) are having a temper tantrum because they want it their way even though their way lost the election.

so just because obama won the election ... those that didn't vote for him have to blindly follow his agenda without voicing opposing views? they must be silent or sing his praises?

No, the opposition should do what the opposition is meant to do appose politically. However, holding government to account is not criticizing government for enacting policies they campaigned on during the election, that's called stupidity.

the gov't (administration) IS being held to account and is failing miserably. trying to ram a huge program into existence without full exposure is just plain stupidity. trying to enact a policy without exposure of details also falls into this category. it's not obama's money ... it's ours.

That is why this country is in a mess. The dems are in office so they should call the shots. Same way when the GOP was in office they should have called the shots. Works quite well under the parliamentary system. Otherwise nothing will ever get done. Hence the state of the US compared to other developed countries.

yup ... glad to see you know the US gov't isn't a parliamentary system where one group (as you defined) gets a blank check.

They are not 'failing miserably' in accountability. As I explained a couple of times, accountability is ensuring that an elected official lives up to the campaign promises, the election manifesto. Opposition is a different kettle of fish.

Parliamentary systems still have an opposition, there are no 'blank checks'. What there isn't though is a bunch of whining sissies, well unless you count Cameron, he's a bit of a whiny sissy

[Heracles 417]

In terms of the success of a government system and the success for its people, the track record of the parliamentary system speaks for itself.

[natty bumppo 297]

We're talking about healthcare reform and town hall meetings being disrupted by thugs because Obama's trying to deliver on his promise, but the minority (the ones who didn't vote for him) are having a temper tantrum because they want it their way even though their way lost the election.

so just because obama won the election ... those that didn't vote for him have to blindly follow his agenda without voicing opposing views? they must be silent or sing his praises?

Of course not. But what are they all up in arms about? Because he's not delivering on his campaign promise? Hardly. That's just sour grapes. If people oppose his plan, they have every means to public debate the merits of their point of view. But thugs showing up to town hall meetings, with the specific purpose of deliberately misleading the public is not democracy...it's thuggery.

people have every right to question and oppose this plan. if the plan was so great, well defined, documented, and communicated, then the "thugs" would not be able to upset the meetings as the answers would have already been made available and published, and known by many. the information is not available and the ram job obama is attempting is reminiscent of a snake oil salesman.

[mawilson 2,133]

Would you rather I didn't pay taxes? I can always see if that's possible...legally.

Sure. Depriving the government of revenue is always a good thing.

[natty bumppo 297]

We're talking about healthcare reform and town hall meetings being disrupted by thugs because Obama's trying to deliver on his promise, but the minority (the ones who didn't vote for him) are having a temper tantrum because they want it their way even though their way lost the election.

so just because obama won the election ... those that didn't vote for him have to blindly follow his agenda without voicing opposing views? they must be silent or sing his praises?

No, the opposition should do what the opposition is meant to do appose politically. However, holding government to account is not criticizing government for enacting policies they campaigned on during the election, that's called stupidity.

the gov't (administration) IS being held to account and is failing miserably. trying to ram a huge program into existence without full exposure is just plain stupidity. trying to enact a policy without exposure of details also falls into this category. it's not obama's money ... it's ours.

That is why this country is in a mess. The dems are in office so they should call the shots. Same way when the GOP was in office they should have called the shots. Works quite well under the parliamentary system. Otherwise nothing will ever get done. Hence the state of the US compared to other developed countries.

yup ... glad to see you know the US gov't isn't a parliamentary system where one group (as you defined) gets a blank check.

They are not 'failing miserably' in accountability. As I explained a couple of times, accountability is ensuring that an elected official lives up to the campaign promises, the election manifesto. Opposition is a different kettle of fish.

Parliamentary systems still have an opposition, there are no 'blank checks'. What there isn't though is a bunch of whining sissies, well unless you count Cameron, he's a bit of a whiny sissy

of course this administration is not to be held accountable for not living up to its promise of transparency ....

[cdneh 3,112]

We're talking about healthcare reform and town hall meetings being disrupted by thugs because Obama's trying to deliver on his promise, but the minority (the ones who didn't vote for him) are having a temper tantrum because they want it their way even though their way lost the election.

so just because obama won the election ... those that didn't vote for him have to blindly follow his agenda without voicing opposing views? they must be silent or sing his praises?

Of course not. But what are they all up in arms about? Because he's not delivering on his campaign promise? Hardly. That's just sour grapes. If people oppose his plan, they have every means to public debate the merits of their point of view. But thugs showing up to town hall meetings, with the specific purpose of deliberately misleading the public is not democracy...it's thuggery.

people have every right to question and oppose this plan. if the plan was so great, well defined, documented, and communicated, then the "thugs" would not be able to upset the meetings as the answers would have already been made available and published, and known by many. the information is not available and the ram job obama is attempting is reminiscent of a snake oil salesman.

They could start by answering the questions asked. No more double talk. And as far as calling a group of senior citizens protesting this nonsense an angry mob...they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

We're talking about healthcare reform and town hall meetings being disrupted by thugs because Obama's trying to deliver on his promise, but the minority (the ones who didn't vote for him) are having a temper tantrum because they want it their way even though their way lost the election.

so just because obama won the election ... those that didn't vote for him have to blindly follow his agenda without voicing opposing views? they must be silent or sing his praises?

Of course not. But what are they all up in arms about? Because he's not delivering on his campaign promise? Hardly. That's just sour grapes. If people oppose his plan, they have every means to public debate the merits of their point of view. But thugs showing up to town hall meetings, with the specific purpose of deliberately misleading the public is not democracy...it's thuggery.

From your point of view. I see them as patriots fighting a bad bill. That is my point of view. The sour grapes are yours my friend. Freedom of Speech goes both ways you know.

Acting outraged because Obama intends on acting on his promise to the voters who got him elected is sore loseritis. He has a mandate to push through healthcare reform from the majority of Americans. Sorry that doesn't sit well with some, but resorting to dirty politics is thuggery, not democracy. Dissent in of itself is patriot. Intentionally deceiving the public in an attempt to scare them out of supporting what they originally supported is unpatriotic...except in authoritarian governments. Maybe North Korea would be good place for these thugs to immigrate to? I'm sure Kim Jong Il could put a western face on his style of propaganda.

[SMOKE 1,426]

They could start by answering the questions asked. No more double talk. And as far as calling a group of senior citizens protesting this nonsense an angry mob...they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

as Steven says

These thugs will stop at nothing to deceive the public.

[natty bumppo 297]

We're talking about healthcare reform and town hall meetings being disrupted by thugs because Obama's trying to deliver on his promise, but the minority (the ones who didn't vote for him) are having a temper tantrum because they want it their way even though their way lost the election.

so just because obama won the election ... those that didn't vote for him have to blindly follow his agenda without voicing opposing views? they must be silent or sing his praises?

Of course not. But what are they all up in arms about? Because he's not delivering on his campaign promise? Hardly. That's just sour grapes. If people oppose his plan, they have every means to public debate the merits of their point of view. But thugs showing up to town hall meetings, with the specific purpose of deliberately misleading the public is not democracy...it's thuggery.

From your point of view. I see them as patriots fighting a bad bill. That is my point of view. The sour grapes are yours my friend. Freedom of Speech goes both ways you know.

Acting outraged because Obama intends on acting on his promise to the voters who got him elected is sore loseritis. He has a mandate to push through healthcare reform from the majority of Americans. Sorry that doesn't sit well with some, but resorting to dirty politics is thuggery, not democracy. Dissent in of itself is patriot. Intentionally deceiving the public in an attempt to scare them out of supporting what they originally supported is unpatriotic...except in authoritarian governments. Maybe North Korea would be good place for these thugs to immigrate to? I'm sure Kim Jong Il could put a western face on his style of propaganda.

implementing a very expensive program without full disclosure to the people paying the bills is simply demanding a blank check. it's not going to happen. why can't obama disclose his plan to the people? is he afraid the people will see he doesn't really have a good plan ... only a feels good plan?

[cdneh 3,112]

We're talking about healthcare reform and town hall meetings being disrupted by thugs because Obama's trying to deliver on his promise, but the minority (the ones who didn't vote for him) are having a temper tantrum because they want it their way even though their way lost the election.

so just because obama won the election ... those that didn't vote for him have to blindly follow his agenda without voicing opposing views? they must be silent or sing his praises?

Of course not. But what are they all up in arms about? Because he's not delivering on his campaign promise? Hardly. That's just sour grapes. If people oppose his plan, they have every means to public debate the merits of their point of view. But thugs showing up to town hall meetings, with the specific purpose of deliberately misleading the public is not democracy...it's thuggery.

From your point of view. I see them as patriots fighting a bad bill. That is my point of view. The sour grapes are yours my friend. Freedom of Speech goes both ways you know.

Acting outraged because Obama intends on acting on his promise to the voters who got him elected is sore loseritis. He has a mandate to push through healthcare reform from the majority of Americans. Sorry that doesn't sit well with some, but resorting to dirty politics is thuggery, not democracy. Dissent in of itself is patriot. Intentionally deceiving the public in an attempt to scare them out of supporting what they originally supported is unpatriotic...except in authoritarian governments. Maybe North Korea would be good place for these thugs to immigrate to? I'm sure Kim Jong Il could put a western face on his style of propaganda.

implementing a very expensive program without full disclosure to the people paying the bills is simply demanding a blank check. it's not going to happen. why can't obama disclose his plan to the people? is he afraid the people will see he doesn't really have a good plan ... only a feels good plan?

I wonder how those older people who will be subject ot it would describe their 'end of life counseling sessions' as feel good?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There's a memo here that suggest that a lot of this stuff is being orchestrated by lobbyists and PR agencies representing corporate interests.

[Peikko 1,575]

Link

Are You Smarter than the US Congress? Almost Certainly.

Alex Massie

Wednesday, 5th August 2009

As any fool knows, the principle benefit of the United States Congress is to make other legislatures seem positively benificent by comparison with the gallery of clowns on Capitol Hill. Compared with these people, even Westminster seems as though it must be populated by latterday Solons. Verily, we live in a Periclean age compared to our poor cousins across the Atlantic.

Consider this piece of jaw-dropping idiocy:

It’s hard to believe, but true: under a law Congress passed last year aimed at regulating hazards in children’s products, the federal government has now advised that children’s books published before 1985 should not be considered safe and may in many cases be unlawful to sell or distribute. Merchants, thrift stores, and booksellers may be at risk if they sell older volumes, or even give them away, without first subjecting them to testing—at prohibitive expense. Many used-book sellers, consignment stores, Goodwill outlets, and the like have accordingly begun to refuse new donations of pre-1985 volumes, yank existing ones off their shelves, and in some cases discard them en masse.

No, you couldn't make it up. Congress, however, has decreed that the lead used in the paint used for illustrating old-time children's books poses a major hazard to, well, everyone. That there is no record of a single injury or illness caused by these illustrations matters not a jot. As always it's a ghastly Will no-one think of the children? moment with, for good measure, a shot of China-panic included just for fun.

I realise that this is a risky thing to suggest, but it's possible that not even Westmister (or Holyrood?) could pass a law quite so daft as this.

[alienlovechild 75]

Acting outraged because Obama intends on acting on his promise to the voters who got him elected is sore loseritis. He has a mandate to push through healthcare reform from the majority of Americans. Sorry that doesn't sit well with some, but resorting to dirty politics is thuggery, not democracy.

Obama is entitled to push his agenda using whatever tools he has available but demonizing dissenters to his grandiose vision is just another tactic as well. The difference is they and everyone else will pay for a plan few have read or understand and raising questions just makes them avoid facing the public. There's no mandate that overrides all dissent and it certainly isn't consitutional. Dirty politics are politics not thuggery as no one is getting beaten or killed in townhall meetings. Democracy means having to listen to people you may not agree with. You should enjoy Pyongyang where everyone is more orderly and respectful of their own cult figure. No pesky townhells there.

[Peikko 1,575]

The few have read and understood is quite simply a lie. All Democratic members of the House had a long breifing on this bill before the house rose.