Strip bar- how would you react...Another view

[*Robert* 2]

You make a very good point Jay, but he did say he was generalizing, and that we were "more open" to sex. When it comes to public nudity, nudity in advertising, and nudity on the air... the US has a LONG way to go to catch up with the Europe!!! Until the "shock" factor goes away of seeing topless women on the beach, and the sight of a bare breast... it will stay that way for awhile.

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

I agree with Jay...regardless of the fact that the OP was generalising. I can remember distinctly when the law was passed that a woman in America may walk around a public park topless. It was a summer the first summer that I worked at a summer camp in 1991. Fast forward a few years and I was down in Florida with my eldest son and my father said "Let's go to the beach". Of course I was all pumped as I couldn't wait to get my son in the sand and walk with him in the ocean. Sitting there I remember thinking how beautiful the water was, how nice the sand was...then..to my surprise, along walked two naked women and two naked men. OMFG!!! Was I shocked then?? Hell yes! It's not the sort of thing that I want my children to see. I don't care if breasts were made to feed children. It's my right as a parent whether or not I want my children seeing that sort of thing. My father thought it was quite humerous because of my reaction. He kept saying..."this surprise coming from you of all people????". WHen I was younger, and single, yes, I had gone to a few strip clubs. Let me tell you, they are about sex in America. I don't care how you look at it, the proof is in the pudding. I was out with a girlfriend of mine once..shortly after I was married to my first husband. We were sitting there when this girl came up to us..she looked familiar but we couldn't place her. It ended up being a girl that we had graduated high school with. The reason why we couldn't place was because as we soon found out, she had had plastic surgery. She had her nose done, her chin done, her lips done, and her breasts done! How could she afford it?? Hmmm...well...she was a stripper. Earning 1500-2500 dollars a week. Plus other benefits. What were they?? Well, certain customers were quite fond of her. TOok her out on dates, and PAID for her plastic surgery. Did it entail sex at all? Hell yes!!! It may seem like good and fun for some, but for the vast majority...there is more to it then just the fun side of it.

That is just my two cents..lol..

LJ

[incanada1234 0]

and how come this couldn't go in the other thread that was already dedicated to this very topic!?!?

I was just going to post this very thing. Crikey. You know the world is not right when grimy and I are on the same wavelength.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

and how come this couldn't go in the other thread that was already dedicated to this very topic!?!?

I was just going to post this very thing. Crikey. You know the world is not right when grimy and I are on the same wavelength.

i've had to go beat my head against the wall when i find fishdude making sense

[incanada1234 0]

i've had to go beat my head against the wall when i find fishdude making sense

Ok, well luckily I haven't had THAT happen yet.

[daisy16 0]

I would love to take strip classes! What fun! Sign me up

***generalization coming***

I think middle America has a love/hate relationship with sex. It's still very prudish and unforgiving, like the mom on the beach, and the videofiles also on the beach.

Married men my husband knows think nothing of sleeping with other women, yet married women who sleep around are sluts to them.

My biggest problem with attitudes about sex are the ongoing double standard.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

When I was attending the University of Illinois in 1993 I had 2 friends who work in strip clubs in Chicago. They would work one weekend a month (Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night) and would come home with $2000.00. That was enough for them to pay for their car, their apartment, their food, their utilities, and their University education. AND they had a lot of fun doing it. Now the trade off was they had to work out all of the time to keep their bodies in the shape required to do what they do on the pole…but is that really a bad thing?

Those poor girls.

I just think some people are jealous.

[Joel Halfwassen 0]

Married men my husband knows think nothing of sleeping with other women, yet married women who sleep around are sluts to them.

No offense, but where is it that you guys live that this sort of behavior is common? Or accepted? The group of married people I hang out may go to strip clubs, but sleeping around is a totally different deal. A real no-no from both sexes.

Joel

[Peter Miami 0]

I would love to take strip classes! What fun! Sign me up

***generalization coming***

I think middle America has a love/hate relationship with sex. It's still very prudish and unforgiving, like the mom on the beach, and the videofiles also on the beach.

Married men my husband knows think nothing of sleeping with other women, yet married women who sleep around are sluts to them.

My biggest problem with attitudes about sex are the ongoing double standard.

I agree!

Peter Miami

[gwenneh 7]

When I was attending the University of Illinois in 1993 I had 2 friends who work in strip clubs in Chicago. They would work one weekend a month (Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night) and would come home with $2000.00. That was enough for them to pay for their car, their apartment, their food, their utilities, and their University education. AND they had a lot of fun doing it. Now the trade off was they had to work out all of the time to keep their bodies in the shape required to do what they do on the pole…but is that really a bad thing?

See, the issue with that mindest is this: when do you stop? It gets so damned tempting to go from one weekend a month to two, three, all of them; a weeknight or two here and there. Oh, and private parties, bachelor parties at the groom's house, private shows...what's the price? Everyone has one. Where are the limits? Everyone finds them, some people find they can get awful blurry when money like that gets thrown around. The Stripper Trap-you start making the money, and then more, and then you graduate University and buy a new car/house/run up your credit card a bit in celebration. Suddenly, you're dumped in the real world and have to find a job, and you do, and you sit there from 9-5 thinking "I spent all day making the money I made in an hour at the club." struggling to pay the bills you've never had a problem with before. So many women slide back in, walk back to put on the stilettos and slap on the makeup because they've dug themselves in too deep. It's a bleak world, looking into it that way. Porn's the same, in some ways even easier to get lulled in.

I have to admit, being able to write of a Brazilian wax, a gym membership, and huge lingerie shoppping trips as business expenses is a nice perk. But the limits get too blurred too quickly, and money rules that world explicitly. It's not pretty.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I have to take issue (slightly - and yes I know this wasn't actually part of his point but I like to veer Off subject ) with the OP for part of the post..that americans are lumped in with Europeans and Brits as to their view of nudity.

Try going topless on most American beaches and see what reaction you get. Going topless on a beach isnt about sex in ANY way - yet when I was in US last time (for more than a couple weeks) and was hanging with some German and Swedish (and Brit) pals and we went to a beach, and stripped off, we were told we would 'get raped'

We weren't on the 'main beach' either - we found a secluded area, amid sand dunes, so we were at least semi-privtae but still this woman, who had kids, and announced that she was 'a mother' to the group of us, said her kids 'didn't need to see that'

Huh?

Her kids are unaware women have breasts? And their primary function is to FEED CHILDREN? I found her attitude offensive, and my German friends just laughed.

They went off into the sea (again not clsoe to anyone else, and still topless) but I stayed hidden in dunes (cos I just felt so self-concious by then and I didn't want to cover up either - so I fell asleep in the sun).

Later my German friends told me that 'some guys' who'd been walking down the beach had stopped and 'videoed me' *shakes head*

You can be stark naked on some Euro beaches and no-one bats an eye.

I have no idea why our cultures are so different in that regard.

So I'm not sure tha many US men see strip bars as fun and not sex (per se) cos they sure seem to view topless sunbathing (which involves no provocative moves) as 'sexual'.

U.S. Children Still Traumatized One Year After Seeing Partially Exposed Breast On TV

January 26, 2005 | Issue 41•04

WASHINGTON, DC—As the nation approaches the one-year anniversary of the Super Bowl XXXVIII tragedy, an FCC study shows that millions of U.S. children were severely traumatized by the exposure to a partially nude female breast during the Feb. 1, 2004 halftime show.

"No one who lived through that day is likely to forget the horror," said noted child therapist Dr. Eli Wasserbaum. "But it was especially hard on the children."

The tragic wardrobe malfunction occurred approximately 360 days ago, during Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake's performance of "Rock Your Body," when Timberlake tore Jackson's costume, accidentally revealing her right breast.

"By the time CBS cut to an aerial view of the stadium, the damage was done," said Wasserbaum, who has also worked extensively with orphaned and amputee children in Third World war zones. "I've found that children can be amazingly resilient, but this event was too much for many of them to take. The horrible image of that breast is likely to haunt them for the rest of their lives."

According to the 500-page report filed by the FCC, more than 90 percent of the children who saw the exposed breast said they were "confused and afraid."

"Mommy has dirty chest bumps," said a 5-year-old boy quoted in one of the thousands of case studies compiled by the FCC. "She's like the bad lady on TV. I'm afraid Mommy will take off her shirt and scare everyone. I hate Mommy."

Girls were traumatized as well, often expressing apprehensions about sexual development. According to Wasserbaum, one 8-year-old girl told her parents that she didn't "want to get evil breasts."

Wasserbaum said children of both genders associate their trauma with footballs, presumably because of the context in which they were exposed to the breast.

A great number of children who witnessed the tragedy are still plagued by nightmares of sun-shapes that recall Jackson's nipple ring. Of the infants who saw the breast, 76 percent are unwilling to breast feed or use a bottle, forcing their parents to nourish them intravenously.

"When the tragedy took place, we knew it would cause psychological trauma, but we had no idea how long the effects would last," Wasserbaum said."Our worst fears have been confirmed. It will take years to repair the damage."

Cases of deviant sexual development induced by breast-glimpsing are widespread amongst older children. Pathologies range from schoolyard exhibitionism to gender-role confusion and violent shirt-tearing.

"The FCC imposed the maximum $27,500 penalty on each of the 20 CBS-owned television stations," Wasserbaum said. "But the government offered no recompense to the individuals exposed to the breast. And neither Jackson nor Timberlake has ever specifically apolgized to the children whose lives they ruined, or donated a penny for the adolescents' psychiatric care."

Across America, parental concern over the condition doctors have dubbed Nearly Naked Breast Disorder continues to grow.

"How can my son Brandon be expected to make it through something like that unscathed?" asked mother of four Shonali Bhomik of the San Francisco-based What About the Children? Foundation, one of many social-awareness groups spearheading the fight for increased NNBD funding in Congress. "For approximately 1.5 seconds, he saw a breast. The image was seared into his innocent, tiny retinas. He can't close his eyes without replaying the whole ugly scene over and over in his little head."

"For the love of God—that breast was almost nude," Bhomik added.

Bhomik said she has concerns about her son's development.

"I shudder to think how this could affect my son once he reaches puberty," Bhomik said. "Little Brandon just wanted to watch the fun halftime show with his family. He was only 10 years old."

Bhomik is one of millions of people facing every parent's worst nightmare: that their child will see a partially exposed breast.

Wasserbaum said there is no way to predict whether the children will recover.

"One thing is certain," Wasserbaum said. "For us as a nation, the horrific consequences of almost-nakedness have only just begun to make themselves apparent."

Wasserbaum added that children who saw the televised breast in Europe, Australia, and various other nations throughout the world were somehow unaffected by the sight.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30883

[Joel Halfwassen 0]

Gwen - I can see your point. However, I worked in fasion for many years and now I work in Athletics. In both places people ARE the commodity and they have a VERY limited shelf life. It is no different in the sex industy. Most people I have encountered are very aware of their own personal expiration date. Now...with some marketing and personal investment you can push that date back a bit, but at some point it comes up and it is time for this person to bow out. To not be aware of this fact and plan accordingly is a personal failure on the part of the individual. Kind of like the middle manager who failed to save for retirement. You knew it was coming.

Joel

[gwenneh 7]

Gwen - I can see your point. However, I worked in fasion for many years and now I work in Athletics. In both places people ARE the commodity and they have a VERY limited shelf life. It is no different in the sex industy. Most people I have encountered are very aware of their own personal expiration date. Now...with some marketing and personal investment you can push that date back a bit, but at some point it comes up and it is time for this person to bow out. To not be aware of this fact and plan accordingly is a personal failure on the part of the individual. Kind of like the middle manager who failed to save for retirement. You knew it was coming.

Joel

I recommend to you "Bare" by Elisabeth Eaves. She says it all more succinctly than I ever could. No, the majority are not as aware of their own personal expiration dates as you'd like to think-maybe in the upscale clubs, but downtown, not so much. That's where the limit pushing happened; the desperate scramble to make as much as you did last week. It's a sad, scary, and far more desperate scene than you're portraying; for the most part, the girls are not your average intelligence ladies going through college on Easy Street-not even in the university town where I lived. It's different from up on the stage, and until you're a stripper and see it firsthand, you don't know. You may get close to knowing, but no, you won't-and can't-know.

[almaty 19]

some of my best client were strippers..

[Joel Halfwassen 0]

Gwen - I concede your point on this one. Good argument. I will just have to go out and get a stripper job.

Joel