Gardasil

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

Gardasil vaccine ingredients include amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, sodium chloride, L-histidine, polysorbate 80, sodium borate, (roach killer), and water for injection.

Safe ingredients eh?

And a question for myself.

Since my hubbie and I have applied for the CR1, can I get away with only the first of three shots or will they want all 3? I want to avoid the entire 3 if I can. >_<

Oh my god! Sodium Chloride? How can they? Those evil pharmaceutical companies! Trying to kill us all with minute amounts of table salt! They are so crafty! And L-Histidine, a common amino acid essential to life that everyone who ingests protein is loaded with! How shameful!

I'm irate about the sodium borate. It is lethal 50% of the time at a dose of only 2,660 mg/kg. Oh, and it kills by inhibiting bacterial action in the stomach of roaches but since us mammals don't keep bacteria in our stomach for digestion it kills when the dose is high enough to irritate the stomach and cause vomiting, diarrhea, dehydration and shock. Since each vaccine dose has about 0.0007 mg of borate in it, that means if we assume you are about 50 kg that you only have to be forced to DRINK 190 million doses of Gardisil and your life is in serious danger. There is no doubt that Gardisil is routinely administered as 190 million oral doses. They just want you to think they're injecting it. The current allowable limit for borate according to the WHO is 0.5 mg/liter. So it is likely that you may ingest much more borate than this every day from your drinking water, by the route that it actually causes toxicity! That shouldn't be a problem but taking 0.14 percent of the amount allowable in a liter of drinking water

And Water for injection! Oh the humanity! I heard that they sometimes use Dihydrogen Monoxide in place of the water because it's cheaper.

So yes, if big chemical names scare you into making silly decisions, you have a point. If you cared to actually research what you are talking about then fear wouldn't need to be making decisions for you. Nothing in the list you wrote is harmful to humans, especially not in the dose you would receive, even from a lifetime of vaccines. Possibly, you would expound on why you felt that salt, water and protein ought to strike fear into our hearts?

If you are, in fact, a small invertebrate insect, you could be in serious trouble. I assume that the readers of VJ are vertebrate mammals but that may be my own prejudice shining through.

And all of this just to prevent just 15,000 slow agonizing deaths from cervical cancer each year (that is from 2005 and the incidence and mortality has risen every year prior so the number is very likely higher now).

And why does it have to be making money and not about the 15,000 women who die every year. It's obvious...because the NVIC, funded by the Citizens Commission on Human Rights, established and funded by the Church of Scientology tells us so. And who wouldn't believe the Church of Scientology. It's not like they have an agenda against western medicine to make money for their own "treatments", right?.......Sorry I gagged after that last statement. They were kind enough to tell us about all those evil spirits clinging to volcanoes! And just because their founder expressly stated that the way to make real money was to start one's own religion, we wouldn't have any reason to suspect that they're in it for the money!

So Scientology videos not withstanding, and they do make some darn good propaganda flicks, take a look at the reality of Gardisil before you do Scientology's work for them. I'm sure many of you have your own religions and are unaware that you are spreading Scientology propaganda because you haven't looked into the claims or where they are coming from. Spreading Scientology's beliefs may not be consistent with the religion you practice so you should check into what you are repeating.

If you feel that 15,000 painful deaths a year is not enough to do something about, OK, we can disagree about that. Please don't pretend that preventing those deaths is worthless, however, and the only possible motive is cash.

All of that notwithstanding...cervical cancer is not contagious so it is not a public health risk to others. If 15,000 per year die from it because they choose not to get an easily available vaccine...so be it. Were I a woman, I would DEMAND my right to refuse the injection and DIE of cervical cancer. To quote the often stated liberal rant..."Keep your hands off my uterus (cervix)!!!!!!!!!" Funny that those same people want the government hands all over their healthcare, injections, etc.

We are adults, give us the information (such as you did) and let us decide for ourselves and our children. I do not need (or want) the government to decide for me. And I do not believe the "government knows best" and really don't care if they do, you do, or not. I do not need others making choices for me.

As I've stated, you're position that this vaccine is not for a contagious disease is just blatantly wrong.

You've also resorted here to creating false moral equivalences by subtly introducing abortion & national health insurance into the discussion when it is irrelevant to this discussion. One might note that this is a frequent non-liberal response to not having facts on one's side.

Your idea assumes that:

A) People make rational decisions

B ) Vaccination works when applied individually and not systemically.

Much of the good health we have today results from other people making decisions about people's health. Do you think polio was eradicated from the Western Hemisphere because some people decided to be vaccinated? That could not have been accomplished in that fashion. Now you may be eager to take your chances with polio too, but you could also try to imagine that many of us were happy not to have to worry that our child would never walk or die from respiratory paralysis because of polio.

You want to reduce the debate to the government shouldn't make any decisions, while creating the straw man that my argument is that the government should make all the decisions. That is up to you but takes away from the real discussion which is about Gardasil.

You can argue to that straw man if you wish but my position would be nothing of the sort. There is no sense to arguing that the government should always or never make decisions that effect your life. Whether it is government or private companies, someone is always making decisions for you as to what you can or can't or must have. The government should make decisions when that would result in a clearly better outcome. That decision making process should always be transparent and open to factually based debate but not to appeals to emotion or other arguments that are factually or logically flawed. In that debate everyone should disclose their financial ties. If your arguments are backed up by good science that has been carried out in a transparent, reproducible fashion, your financial ties become less important. If your science is sloppy, not transparent or not reproducible then your financial ties take your voice away. However, your science doesn't become bad because some religious nuts say it is. I think that is a really important distinction to make in this discussion.

I'm not an ideologue and I don't wish to have an ideological battle with you. I hope you can return to discussing Gardasil factually and not with reference to ideologies, abortion or strange ideas about Gardasil not being an HPV vaccine.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Wei&Shu(Joe)

[Rhiannercakes 14]

This topic became quite interesting.

[Jon & Dana 0]

Very good Wei&Shu! Very well put!

[Persona 0]

Please look for my post... there is little hope at least for us who don't want it...

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=211391

sorry for my half good english ^^

[maliciant 7]

I'm generally for the gardisil vaccine, I'm not so keen on the price of it though, it shouldn't cost what it does, THAT part is big business. I think overall the vaccine itself is a good thing, and once the patent on gardisil ends and the generics come into the picture, I'm sure we'll be seeing the vaccine administered in schools much like many other vaccines are today (or at least were while I was in school).

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Gardasil vaccine ingredients include amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, sodium chloride, L-histidine, polysorbate 80, sodium borate, (roach killer), and water for injection.

Safe ingredients eh?

And a question for myself.

Since my hubbie and I have applied for the CR1, can I get away with only the first of three shots or will they want all 3? I want to avoid the entire 3 if I can. >_<

Oh my god! Sodium Chloride? How can they? Those evil pharmaceutical companies! Trying to kill us all with minute amounts of table salt! They are so crafty! And L-Histidine, a common amino acid essential to life that everyone who ingests protein is loaded with! How shameful!

I'm irate about the sodium borate. It is lethal 50% of the time at a dose of only 2,660 mg/kg. Oh, and it kills by inhibiting bacterial action in the stomach of roaches but since us mammals don't keep bacteria in our stomach for digestion it kills when the dose is high enough to irritate the stomach and cause vomiting, diarrhea, dehydration and shock. Since each vaccine dose has about 0.0007 mg of borate in it, that means if we assume you are about 50 kg that you only have to be forced to DRINK 190 million doses of Gardisil and your life is in serious danger. There is no doubt that Gardisil is routinely administered as 190 million oral doses. They just want you to think they're injecting it. The current allowable limit for borate according to the WHO is 0.5 mg/liter. So it is likely that you may ingest much more borate than this every day from your drinking water, by the route that it actually causes toxicity! That shouldn't be a problem but taking 0.14 percent of the amount allowable in a liter of drinking water

And Water for injection! Oh the humanity! I heard that they sometimes use Dihydrogen Monoxide in place of the water because it's cheaper.

So yes, if big chemical names scare you into making silly decisions, you have a point. If you cared to actually research what you are talking about then fear wouldn't need to be making decisions for you. Nothing in the list you wrote is harmful to humans, especially not in the dose you would receive, even from a lifetime of vaccines. Possibly, you would expound on why you felt that salt, water and protein ought to strike fear into our hearts?

If you are, in fact, a small invertebrate insect, you could be in serious trouble. I assume that the readers of VJ are vertebrate mammals but that may be my own prejudice shining through.

And all of this just to prevent just 15,000 slow agonizing deaths from cervical cancer each year (that is from 2005 and the incidence and mortality has risen every year prior so the number is very likely higher now).

And why does it have to be making money and not about the 15,000 women who die every year. It's obvious...because the NVIC, funded by the Citizens Commission on Human Rights, established and funded by the Church of Scientology tells us so. And who wouldn't believe the Church of Scientology. It's not like they have an agenda against western medicine to make money for their own "treatments", right?.......Sorry I gagged after that last statement. They were kind enough to tell us about all those evil spirits clinging to volcanoes! And just because their founder expressly stated that the way to make real money was to start one's own religion, we wouldn't have any reason to suspect that they're in it for the money!

So Scientology videos not withstanding, and they do make some darn good propaganda flicks, take a look at the reality of Gardisil before you do Scientology's work for them. I'm sure many of you have your own religions and are unaware that you are spreading Scientology propaganda because you haven't looked into the claims or where they are coming from. Spreading Scientology's beliefs may not be consistent with the religion you practice so you should check into what you are repeating.

If you feel that 15,000 painful deaths a year is not enough to do something about, OK, we can disagree about that. Please don't pretend that preventing those deaths is worthless, however, and the only possible motive is cash.

All of that notwithstanding...cervical cancer is not contagious so it is not a public health risk to others. If 15,000 per year die from it because they choose not to get an easily available vaccine...so be it. Were I a woman, I would DEMAND my right to refuse the injection and DIE of cervical cancer. To quote the often stated liberal rant..."Keep your hands off my uterus (cervix)!!!!!!!!!" Funny that those same people want the government hands all over their healthcare, injections, etc.

We are adults, give us the information (such as you did) and let us decide for ourselves and our children. I do not need (or want) the government to decide for me. And I do not believe the "government knows best" and really don't care if they do, you do, or not. I do not need others making choices for me.

As I've stated, you're position that this vaccine is not for a contagious disease is just blatantly wrong.

You've also resorted here to creating false moral equivalences by subtly introducing abortion & national health insurance into the discussion when it is irrelevant to this discussion. One might note that this is a frequent non-liberal response to not having facts on one's side.

Your idea assumes that:

A) People make rational decisions

B ) Vaccination works when applied individually and not systemically.

Much of the good health we have today results from other people making decisions about people's health. Do you think polio was eradicated from the Western Hemisphere because some people decided to be vaccinated? That could not have been accomplished in that fashion. Now you may be eager to take your chances with polio too, but you could also try to imagine that many of us were happy not to have to worry that our child would never walk or die from respiratory paralysis because of polio.

You want to reduce the debate to the government shouldn't make any decisions, while creating the straw man that my argument is that the government should make all the decisions. That is up to you but takes away from the real discussion which is about Gardasil.

You can argue to that straw man if you wish but my position would be nothing of the sort. There is no sense to arguing that the government should always or never make decisions that effect your life. Whether it is government or private companies, someone is always making decisions for you as to what you can or can't or must have. The government should make decisions when that would result in a clearly better outcome. That decision making process should always be transparent and open to factually based debate but not to appeals to emotion or other arguments that are factually or logically flawed. In that debate everyone should disclose their financial ties. If your arguments are backed up by good science that has been carried out in a transparent, reproducible fashion, your financial ties become less important. If your science is sloppy, not transparent or not reproducible then your financial ties take your voice away. However, your science doesn't become bad because some religious nuts say it is. I think that is a really important distinction to make in this discussion.

I'm not an ideologue and I don't wish to have an ideological battle with you. I hope you can return to discussing Gardasil factually and not with reference to ideologies, abortion or strange ideas about Gardasil not being an HPV vaccine.

The problem with this argument is that you are comparing apples to oranges. HPV is very much a different fruit to polio where it could be passed along like influenza etc. HPV takes a specific type of contact to be passed. Even the CDC has stated that HPV does not pose an immediate health risk to the public.

[Rhiannercakes 14]

I'm generally for the gardisil vaccine, I'm not so keen on the price of it though, it shouldn't cost what it does, THAT part is big business. I think overall the vaccine itself is a good thing, and once the patent on gardisil ends and the generics come into the picture, I'm sure we'll be seeing the vaccine administered in schools much like many other vaccines are today (or at least were while I was in school).

Gardasil's already being put into school shot programs here.

I think it's voluntary still, but they're pushing it really hard.