Immigration officer comes to your house??

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

ICE is about enforcement. They are not your local office and they are not attempting to validate your relationship etc like an IO would. There job is simple - collect evidence against an individual for proceedings against them. To speak to them without representation is both naive and puts everything you've worked for during the process in danger.

They are not there to reason with you or have you validate your status through a simple conversation. There job is to find something they can use even if it means getting you to say something incriminating. Remember something you find innocent and legal in your books might send them down the wrong path.

Edited August 5, 2009 by lancer1655

[TBoneTX 45,273]

If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.

Did you read my previous posts accurately and interpret them literally? If you are correct, why do so many attorneys recommend otherwise?

A few minutes of chit chat and showing evidence will clear it all up....

On what authority do you claim this? And, is it true 100% of the time? Is it true even 50% of the time?

as for me .. I'd rather spend a few moments answering a couple questions and telling someone my name than having to be hauled off locked in a room until they figure it out and run prints and stuff

Well, guess what: If you DO answer a couple questions and tell someone your name, you may be hauled off, locked in a room, and have your fingerprints run anyway.

it can get out of hand real quick.

Very true, which is the exact reason to follow the recommendations that I posted earlier in this thread. I would not have posted them if they had not been confirmed by multiple attorneys to whom I spoke and wrote. As a future courtesy, before raising the same issues that have already been thoroughly discussed and written about, please read previous posts accurately and interpret them literally.

Otherwise, Lancer's most recent post is again correct. ICE stands for "Immigration & Customs Enforcement for a reason.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I think its important to remember that they are not Barney down at the local precinct. They are here to find illegal activity in the immigration system, root it out and get the evidence for the court.

....or arresting the local college student for modding consoles to play pirated games and then reselling them to the public.

Edited August 5, 2009 by lancer1655

[JeremyR 8]

I think its important to remember that they are not Barney down at the local precinct. They are here to find illegal activity in the immigration system, root it out and get the evidence for the court.

....or arresting the local college student for modding consoles to play pirated games and then reselling them to the public.

Yep, just saw this earlier. Link

One of those "Have they got nothing better to do" type moments, I think

[Caroline and Phil 14]

TBoneTX, no problem.

Do you know if someone could have this problem with immigration officers after they are naturalized?

[TBoneTX 45,273]

Do you know if someone could have this problem with immigration officers after they are naturalized?

I don't see how immigration officers could have anything to say after someone becomes a U.S. citizen.

[Nik+Heather 121]

For those still not convinced, I challenge you to think of an innocent situation where they would spend the resources to send an actual person to your house. With limited money and limited people and WAAAAY too much work to do, you'd better bet that anything which can be cleared up with "a simple chat" would be done over the phone (pretty drastic even then) or in your interview.

The other problem with the I'm innocent, I have nothing to hide idea is that guilty people say the same thing, so you don't look any different to the people who they are looking for from the other perspective.

If I were an enforcement officer (I'm not) visiting the house would be the LAST step in any investigation I was conducting...otherwise it might tip them off. I'd already have a lot of evidence that convinced me that I'd find something when I went.

It may be difficult to do in practice (I should know, I have been asked before - traffic stop) but the answer is very clear in theory.

[bayojona3231 4]

Never heard about that but since everything is true there is nothing to fear.

On what authority do you claim with such assurance that there is nothing to fear, especially if you "never heard about" it?

Well, since when I need authority to express that:

1 - it's true that I've never heard about it

2 - As far as I know, each of us are free to post our comments based on our experience, no one here is an attorney or gives legal advices (well some might be but most are not).

3 - If one day they came to my house I would have absolutely NOTHING to fear since my marriage is for true love and I have never lied to US Immigration.

So, don't try "fear" for me when my fears or no fears are none of your business.

Peace.

Amen to that. I have heard of cases where they make home visits to confirm their suspision of a fraudulent marriage.

[payxibka 10,045]

Do you know if someone could have this problem with immigration officers after they are naturalized?

I don't see how immigration officers could have anything to say after someone becomes a U.S. citizen.

A naturalized citizen can be revoked under certain circumstances by judicial action

Sec. 1451. Revocation of naturalization

Concealment of material evidence:

The party to whom was granted the naturalization alleged to have been illegally procured or procured by concealment of a material fact or

by willful misrepresentation

Membership in certain organizations:

Citizenship unlawfully procured:

When a person shall be convicted under section 1425 of title 18 of knowingly procuring naturalization in violation of law, the court in which such conviction is had shall thereupon revoke, set aside, and declare void the final order admitting such person to citizenship, and shall declare the certificate of naturalization of such person to be canceled.

http://law.justia.com/us/codes/title8/8usc1451.html

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

I didn't know immigration could lie.

And so can any law-enforcement personnel. This is why if we're ever detained or arrested, we do best to claim and exercise our right to remain silent (completely silent!) and to confer with an attorney.

what would be the reason for the immigration to lie, is it just to send people back even if they are bona fide couple and everything is under the law?

It's summed up this way: The State (meaning from the local police up through the Federal level) is after BODIES. This is to get money (through fines), to incarcerate, to deport, or whatever else. ANYTHING that they see (in your home, in your car, or on your person), and ANYTHING that you tell them -- even in a simple "contact" on the street that seems to you like a harmless chat -- can and will be used against you. Do not let the State have that opportunity!

In the U.S., only a judge can order us to answer questions. Let the State drag us into court without our willing or unwitting help. If the State is interested enough, it will, but we'll have at least some time to prepare and to operate through the legal system, with an attorney to represent us... as long as we didn't hose ourselves ahead of time by consenting to warrantless searches or by volunteering information by answering questions!

When an agent of the State asks us something, the response "Nothing personal, sir, but I don't have to answer that" is quick, true, and elegant.

THREE different attorneys -- two of whom are immigration attorneys -- gave me this advice, over time, in differing words: In every circumstance, avoid Federal agents like the plague!

If anyone believes that the above is paranoid, I prefer to call it "being prudent." We don't KNOW what immigration agents or others really want from us, which is why it makes sense to protect ourselves from the unknown.

Thank you for the reply!!!

Well, may I ask one more question? Let's say you are driving or walking on the street and some officer stops you. Are you in this kind of risk?

The thing that makes me so upset about this is that it seems like they care more about busting legal people more than illegal. I don't wish anything bad to illegal people but unlike us, they don't have to wait, they don't have to pay what we pay, even my husband is very upset with this fact. While we are here to live with our families forever, after all we have passed with K-1 or CR-1/k-3, most of illegal people are here to make money and go back to their country.

And please, if u can answer I have another question: does this happen even after our naturalization?

Thank you for the patience with me.

I think we tend to ignore all the people who are released from jail after 10 years when the real perpetrator is discovered and how many of them cooperated with police because they knew they were innocent, therefore they couldn't possibly end up in jail for 10 years for something they didn't do.

When something or someone is suspected, the attitude of officials is rarely to objectively seek the truth and is usually to find evidence that their suspicions are accurate. An interrogation rarely proceeds with the intention of uncovering objective truth. When someone enters a room or a home with suspicions, their intent is often "to get a confession".

Read some of the accounts of people who had noting to hide who had some little inconsistency in their memory turned into greater suspicion and eventually found themselves agreeing with officers that they must be guilty. We don't want to accept that the human mind works that way because it's scary! It does however and it is a great credit to our founders that they had awareness enough to give us protection against the tendencies of people in power and of our own minds to bend to subtle pressures.

If ICE came to your house they would be coming to "confirm their suspicions". The most innocent object, letter, email left up on a screen might be the thing that they interpret as the confirmation they expected to find when they entered. It all goes downhill from there. I don't think anyone who's been through this process can believe that all the "real" couples get visas/green cards and all the "fake" couples are prevented from obtaining them. Plenty of good people here haven't gotten visas or had trouble with officials along the way.

The belief that nothing bad happens to innocent people persists despite tons of evidence against it and it is every officers best friend because ultimately he feels good when he convicts/deports the person HE BELIEVES to be guilty/illegal and is rewarded for racking up numbers in that regard whether he is objectively correct or not. So it is a great thing to do some research into the neurobiology and psychology of these situations and the history of wrongful convictions/deportations to know that we are more vulnerable than we tend to believe and our protections are not just for the guilty. They protect against our urge to scapegoat and our tendency to "find" the evidence we seek. We underestimate their importance to the innocent because we don't want to face how vulnerable we are, but it's a fact.

Just my 2.5 cents.

[Marzy 1]

I heard this before but not from VJ.I hope, I'm at home when they visit our home. Usually, I'm with my spouse in his office when I'm not at school or home. They better call me/my husband when they push our door bell so I can give them some dried fish.

Edited August 7, 2009 by S*J

[Caroline and Phil 14]

This topic became a very good discution about this subject, thank you for everybody!

I think I was thinking "too innocent" before, thinking that just because u married for love, you love your family, your status is legal everything would be alright.

Well, I think I will start reading about this subject because the feeling of not being safe is horrible, but if you know what to do "just in case" you can feel better.

I hope they can always get the actual guilty people and leave the innocents alone hehehhee.

From now on I'll pray to God for us all to this never happen.

[TBoneTX 45,273]

A naturalized citizen can be revoked under certain circumstances by judicial action

Sec. 1451. Revocation of naturalization

Great stuff, and good to know -- thanks for doing the research and posting it!