Immigration officer comes to your house??

[TBoneTX 44,787]

If one day they came to my house I would have absolutely NOTHING to fear since my marriage is for true love and I have never lied to US Immigration.

The fact is that you (and none of us) would not know WHAT exactly they're looking for, and they are not required to tell you, or even to tell you the truth if you ask. Furthermore, anything that they see within the house (once they're invited in or allowed to enter) becomes fair game for any action that they wish to take. Now, with this in mind, how would it be prudent to invite or allow them in?

So, don't try "fear" for me when my fears or no fears are none of your business.

Thanks for your little lecture (with such "peace"!) All of the advice that I offer on VJ is from the standpoint of "what is the WORST that can possibly happen, and what is the most PRUDENT course of action to minimize or eliminate it?" If you believe that it is completely risk-free to ALLOW a governmental agent to enter someone's property and for that someone to OFFER answers to questions on the AGENT'S agenda and timetable, that's your personal belief, and you're entitled to it. However, if you advocate that practice to other VJ readers without also acknowledging the "worst possible" that can happen as a result of following your advice, that's entirely different, and irresponsible.

Helping a law officer solve a crime is one thing. Being blindsided as a result of our failure to claim and exercise our Fourth & Fifth Amendment rights is naive, at BEST. How would you feel if someone took your advice and ended up regretting having done so?

[Caroline and Phil 14]

If one day they came to my house I would have absolutely NOTHING to fear since my marriage is for true love and I have never lied to US Immigration.

The fact is that you (and none of us) would not know WHAT exactly they're looking for, and they are not required to tell you, or even to tell you the truth if you ask. Furthermore, anything that they see within the house (once they're invited in or allowed to enter) becomes fair game for any action that they wish to take. Now, with this in mind, how would it be prudent to invite or allow them in?

So, don't try "fear" for me when my fears or no fears are none of your business.

Thanks for your little lecture (with such "peace"!) All of the advice that I offer on VJ is from the standpoint of "what is the WORST that can possibly happen, and what is the most PRUDENT course of action to minimize or eliminate it?" If you believe that it is completely risk-free to ALLOW a governmental agent to enter someone's property and for that someone to OFFER answers to questions on the AGENT'S agenda and timetable, that's your personal belief, and you're entitled to it. However, if you advocate that practice to other VJ readers without also acknowledging the "worst possible" that can happen as a result of following your advice, that's entirely different, and irresponsible.

Helping a law officer solve a crime is one thing. Being blindsided as a result of our failure to claim and exercise our Fourth & Fifth Amendment rights is naive, at BEST. How would you feel if someone took your advice and ended up regretting having done so?

Ok TBoneTX, you got my attention, so what could happen if you allow an Immigration officer in your house under these circumstances:

1- you don't have any illegal immigrant hiden in your house

2- you don't have contact with illegal immigrants

3- you are not an illegal immigrant

4- you status is legal

I understand your point saying people have the right to allow them to enter or not (it's not even prudent you allow a stranger in your house but the subject here is an actual officer). If someone have any problem of course they will try to be as far as possible from the officers. But I need you to please answer me then, in my case why wouldn't I let them enter if everything is right? Because when I first gave my advice i said: "if everything is true, there's nothing to fear". I came to the United States with everything right, my husband and I did our best in our processes (k-1, AOS) and I have nothing to hide from immigration. My point is: if you are true (under immigration law) what so bad thing could happen to you?

Plus, I never said your advices are bad or good, I don't know you and if you say u help lots of people here I believe you, but as I said I have my question above with no answer.

Peace.

[Hannah+Vito 0]

ICE are the same ones who interview us? I thought ICE was just for busting possible illegal alien operations such as companies employing them?

Would it not be the same sort of immigration officer who conducts the interviews at the office that would come for a home interview? or are they the same?

[Caroline and Phil 14]

ICE are the same ones who interview us? I thought ICE was just for busting possible illegal alien operations such as companies employing them?

Would it not be the same sort of immigration officer who conducts the interviews at the office that would come for a home interview? or are they the same?

I think you are right.

[lucyrich 20]

I know a couple to which this happened (not VJ participants). The immigration officials have a limited budget and a bunch of cases, so they only make a home visit if they think there's a reasonable chance it will uncover something. In other words, only if they already smell something bad.

Regarding whether to let them in, everyone's got the 4th amendment rights to freedom from unreasonable search and seizure. They absolutely cannot throw you in jail for remaining silent, and/or refusing to let them in without a warrant. On the other hand, if they are trying to make a decision on an immigration benefit which you have applied for, you have the burden of proving eligibility for that benefit, via a preponderance of the evidence. If you don't sustain that burden of proving eligibility, they can deny the benefit. The burden of proof isn't the same as the burden of proof for a criminal trial. You may want to consult with your immigration attorney if you're concerned about this (and if you're really concerned about this, you probably should have an immigration attorney).

It could be an opportunity to show them you're a valid couple. Or, since they typically only do this when they already suspect something is wrong, it could be an opportunity for them to gather evidence to confirm their suspicions. They probably won't be looking too hard for evidence that's in your favor, and they may misinterpret things against you.

I've also heard of them interviewing neighbors. You don't get to decide whether your neighbors talk to them. They may show your photos to your neighbors and ask your neighbors whether they ever see you coming and going, and if they see the two of you together. So it doesn't hurt to introduce yourselves to your neighbors, and perhaps even to be somewhat affectionate in front of them.

As has been said, this isn't a common thing, so I wouldn't be too concerned, especially not if you're a bona fide couple.

[TBoneTX 44,787]

The immigration officials have a limited budget and a bunch of cases, so they only make a home visit if they think there's a reasonable chance it will uncover something. In other words, only if they already smell something bad.

Yes -- a red flag.

They probably won't be looking too hard for evidence that's in your favor, and they may misinterpret things against you.

Bingo.

The point, Lisa, is that even if YOU think that you are a bona fide couple, and all of the other factors that you mention are true, you don't know what the IMMIGRATION OFFICIALS really want, and (by Supreme Court ruling!) they can LIE to you. The prudent response would be to listen to their purported reason, and, no matter WHAT it is, tell them (through a closed door) "I can't talk right now. Please leave your business card in the door; my attorney may get back with you soon."

As lucyrich says, such a visit would be uncommon. That's a very good idea about becoming acquainted with the neighbors.

[Caroline and Phil 14]

TboneTX, wow I would never imagine something like that. I didn't know immigration could lie. Since we have to tell the truth always. No fair!

This is what I was imagining if they came they would check documents, evidences and everything would be ok.

So, even though being a bona fide couple and being as the immigration laws rule we must be prepared for these things! Seriously, I didn't know that.

Well, thank you for the answer, I can't imagine something like that happening [even though it's rare] and I being far from my babe, no way.

Just to clarify, what would be the reason for the immigration to lie, is it just to send people back even if they are bona fide couple and everything is under the law?

Peace, always.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Who hear actually answers the door when a federal agent or officer knocks?? I mean they either want to ask you silly questions, tell you a loved one is dead or incarcerated or let you know that a hurricane, bomb, gas leak... whatever is coming.

I'm being silly, but seriously I never answer the door its always bad news.

Edited August 4, 2009 by lancer1655

[TBoneTX 44,787]

I didn't know immigration could lie.

And so can any law-enforcement personnel. This is why if we're ever detained or arrested, we do best to claim and exercise our right to remain silent (completely silent!) and to confer with an attorney.

what would be the reason for the immigration to lie, is it just to send people back even if they are bona fide couple and everything is under the law?

It's summed up this way: The State (meaning from the local police up through the Federal level) is after BODIES. This is to get money (through fines), to incarcerate, to deport, or whatever else. ANYTHING that they see (in your home, in your car, or on your person), and ANYTHING that you tell them -- even in a simple "contact" on the street that seems to you like a harmless chat -- can and will be used against you. Do not let the State have that opportunity!

In the U.S., only a judge can order us to answer questions. Let the State drag us into court without our willing or unwitting help. If the State is interested enough, it will, but we'll have at least some time to prepare and to operate through the legal system, with an attorney to represent us... as long as we didn't hose ourselves ahead of time by consenting to warrantless searches or by volunteering information by answering questions!

When an agent of the State asks us something, the response "Nothing personal, sir, but I don't have to answer that" is quick, true, and elegant.

THREE different attorneys -- two of whom are immigration attorneys -- gave me this advice, over time, in differing words: In every circumstance, avoid Federal agents like the plague!

If anyone believes that the above is paranoid, I prefer to call it "being prudent." We don't KNOW what immigration agents or others really want from us, which is why it makes sense to protect ourselves from the unknown.

Edited August 4, 2009 by TBoneTX

[Caroline and Phil 14]

I didn't know immigration could lie.

And so can any law-enforcement personnel. This is why if we're ever detained or arrested, we do best to claim and exercise our right to remain silent (completely silent!) and to confer with an attorney.

what would be the reason for the immigration to lie, is it just to send people back even if they are bona fide couple and everything is under the law?

It's summed up this way: The State (meaning from the local police up through the Federal level) is after BODIES. This is to get money (through fines), to incarcerate, to deport, or whatever else. ANYTHING that they see (in your home, in your car, or on your person), and ANYTHING that you tell them -- even in a simple "contact" on the street that seems to you like a harmless chat -- can and will be used against you. Do not let the State have that opportunity!

In the U.S., only a judge can order us to answer questions. Let the State drag us into court without our willing or unwitting help. If the State is interested enough, it will, but we'll have at least some time to prepare and to operate through the legal system, with an attorney to represent us... as long as we didn't hose ourselves ahead of time by consenting to warrantless searches or by volunteering information by answering questions!

When an agent of the State asks us something, the response "Nothing personal, sir, but I don't have to answer that" is quick, true, and elegant.

THREE different attorneys -- two of whom are immigration attorneys -- gave me this advice, over time, in differing words: In every circumstance, avoid Federal agents like the plague!

If anyone believes that the above is paranoid, I prefer to call it "being prudent." We don't KNOW what immigration agents or others really want from us, which is why it makes sense to protect ourselves from the unknown.

Thank you for the reply!!!

Well, may I ask one more question? Let's say you are driving or walking on the street and some officer stops you. Are you in this kind of risk?

The thing that makes me so upset about this is that it seems like they care more about busting legal people more than illegal. I don't wish anything bad to illegal people but unlike us, they don't have to wait, they don't have to pay what we pay, even my husband is very upset with this fact. While we are here to live with our families forever, after all we have passed with K-1 or CR-1/k-3, most of illegal people are here to make money and go back to their country.

And please, if u can answer I have another question: does this happen even after our naturalization?

Thank you for the patience with me.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

That depends where you are stopped. If you are in state or community that has a stop and identify law in the books then any law enforcement including ICE can demand ID. If you do not have ID you must give your name and address.

Otherwise, no, you do not need to identify yourself.

[TBoneTX 44,787]

That depends where you are stopped. If you are in state or community that has a stop and identify law in the books then any law enforcement including ICE can demand ID. If you do not have ID you must give your name and address.

Otherwise, no, you do not need to identify yourself.

Lancer is correct. In Texas, for example, the "failure to identify" law (Texas Penal Code 38.03) says that you are required to provide ID or name/address/birthdate IF the officer has good cause to believe that you are a witness to a criminal offense, or if you are being lawfully detained or (of course) arrested. This arose from Hiibel v. 6th Judicial Court of Nevada a few years ago -- an awful Supreme Court decision, if you ask me (but no one is asking or cares). If you are stopped while driving, you must provide your driver's license regardless.

Lisa, my understanding (from talking with attorneys and looking at Supreme Court decisions) is this: At least for now, if a law-enforcement officer merely "contacts" you and tries to ask you questions while you are on foot, you are free to walk away without a word, or with a "Sorry -- I have no time to talk right now" type of statement. If he ORDERS you to stop, you must, but you are not required to answer questions. The officer can detain you with "reasonable articulable suspicion" (more than just a hunch), or arrest you with "probable cause." If there is any doubt whether you are being detained, ask, and always state "I wish to be on my way. Am I free to go?" Currently, the longest that an officer can detain you without reasonable articulable suspicion is apparently around 90 minutes. The foregoing is my honest understanding as a layman; please consult an attorney before relying on anything above. If you are ever detained or arrested, ALWAYS tell EVERY officer that you exercise your right to remain silent, and you want an attorney... and then shut UP, no matter how hard they try to get you to talk!

Your rights are somewhat less if you're stopped while driving (for example, you must provide identification if asked), although you can and should always, ALWAYS refuse any request to search your vehicle. Nothing good can EVER come of it. The officer is free to inspect whatever is in plain view from wherever he stands outside the car.

It does seem that "legal" immigrants are being hassled. I believe that there is so much anti-ALL-immigrant sentiment out there, because people are so frustrated about the seemingly unconquerable problem with Illegals, that they take it out on the nearest targets, meaning us. There is little that we can do except try not to take it personally.

Although it would be rare if we mind our own business, abide by the laws, and look respectable in appearance, any of us at any time is potentially subject to attention from law enforcement. If future Supreme Court decisions further erode the little that remains of the Fourth Amendment, or if (heaven forbid), the President declares martial law, we're all sunk.

[Caroline and Phil 14]

Thank you, Lancer1655!!!

TBoneTX, thank you very much for the explanation!

It's good to know these things, I had quite different view about all this. I'm sorry if I was kind of rude some posts ago, I thought the fact of being a bona fide couple and having everything right we had nothing to fear. Well, now I know, the world is not just roses.

God bless we all.

[TBoneTX 44,787]

Thank you for your classy apology, Lisa. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security will soon have neither." Let's claim and exercise our rights while the U.S. Constitution still exists.

[RYCK 0]

Way to instill fear among people TBONE ... sorry you are right about people having rights and such and i agree with that.

If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.. if you act like you do have something to hide .. "go away" "come back wth a warrant" "not until my lawyer is here" then you have just opened the door that you have something to hide and then you begin the term "Probable Cause". If they come to talk they are there for a reason that they want to clear up maybe something they missed maybe something that looked funny that really isn't and they need to straighten it out. Maybe some stupid neighbor made a complaint about someone is working when they shouldn't. A few minutes of chit chat and showing evidence will clear it all up....

OR

they are there because that immigrant IS doing something they shouldn't be doing and they should be caught because it's people like that who are making it more difficult for EVERYONE on this site who want to be in the USA for their spouses or for whatever reason but do it the right and legal way.

as for me .. I'd rather spend a few moments answering a couple questions and telling someone my name than having to be hauled off locked in a room until they figure it out and run prints and stuff .. then having to wait hours for a lawyer that will show up just to tell them himself what your name is and where you were and were going and then they say well you fit a discription of someone we were looking for but it turns out your not that person so you can go .. and before you leave that lawyer hands you a bill which will be pricey because he had to come all the way down there ... it can get out of hand real quick.

but back on topic this was about IMMIGRATION and it's put on us as the pettitioners and the benificiaries to prove we are doing this legally and it's in our best interest to work "with" them not against them.