Piggy Swine Flu

[HYENA 4]

Figured I would start this thread since some of us will come down with the piggy flu; it's just a matter of time since it's circling the globe over and over and morphing and strengthening as it goes.

Now I know why everyone was wearing masks in Bangkok!

I've been bedridden for 4 days; sick as a dog (I mean pig). I think I'm slowly coming to the middle part of it since I can stand and walk a few feet now. Got a bacterial sinus/tonsilitis the second day but thank Buddha for OTC azithromycin that made a noticeable difference once I started the course. If you've got it, don't rule out secondary bacterial infections that love to feed on irritation (throat, sinuses, tonsils), wear a mask when you go out and try not to go out at all. You''ll know if you're spitting colors if it's bacterial (alone or in conjunction). In all cases, it's recommended to check in with a doctor (gotta put that out there).

Wear masks and wash your hooves-don't touch your snout or mouth without washing, Masks are fashionable in Asia anyway!

By the way, I'm not confirmed but my background says it likely is (regular or swine flu). I didn't want to be "counted and controlled" by any government so I'm riding it out here at my fiancee's. From what I can tell it's nothing more than a really bad flu and the death rates are similar, as well. The panic is because this can morph into a deadly disease; apparently they're getting cases in China immune to Tamiflu and pigs are dying in Myammar so it's already morphing. Here only about 30 of 50,000 have died recently (primarily the very young and the obese and old/frail).

Sooo, thought I'd start this thread just to chat about it. There's good information on the World Health Organization. I would only trust European or US/AUS/CAN, etc government advice since some local Asian countries have made huge errors out of apathy or ignorance and are paying now due to the explosion of cases here. US dept of health has good info, too.

I thought I'd never get it since I rarely get sick. THinking is not a preventative measure

If you buy a mask, the tie in the back (versus ear loop) one's make a better seal. Pinch the metal part over your snout and keep adjusting it 'till no air comes out of the sides or bottom. Buy one from a pharmacy as street one's may not be a small enough micron to do the job.

Meanwhile, I'm going on a 100% pork diet to pay them back!

Take care and be well!

Edited July 31, 2009 by HYENA

[JAN072010 0]

Figured I would start this thread since some of us will come down with the piggy flu; it's just a matter of time since it's circling the globe over and over and morphing and strengthening as it goes.

Now I know why everyone was wearing masks in Bangkok!

I've been bedridden for 4 days; sick as a dog (I mean pig). I think I'm slowly coming to the middle part of it since I can stand and walk a few feet now. Got a bacterial sinus/tonsilitis the second day but thank Buddha for OTC azithromycin that made a noticeable difference once I started the course. If you've got it, don't rule out secondary bacterial infections that love to feed on irritation (throat, sinuses, tonsils), wear a mask when you go out and try not to go out at all. You''ll know if you're spitting colors if it's bacterial (alone or in conjunction). In all cases, it's recommended to check in with a doctor (gotta put that out there).

Wear masks and wash your hooves-don't touch your snout or mouth without washing, Masks are fashionable in Asia anyway!

By the way, I'm not confirmed but my background says it likely is (regular or swine flu). I didn't want to be "counted and controlled" by any government so I'm riding it out here at my fiancee's. From what I can tell it's nothing more than a really bad flu and the death rates are similar, as well. The panic is because this can morph into a deadly disease; apparently they're getting cases in China immune to Tamiflu and pigs are dying in Myammar so it's already morphing. Here only about 30 of 50,000 have died recently (primarily the very young and the obese and old/frail).

Sooo, thought I'd start this thread just to chat about it. There's good information on the World Health Organization. I would only trust European or US/AUS/CAN, etc government advice since some local Asian countries have made huge errors out of apathy or ignorance and are paying now due to the explosion of cases here. US dept of health has good info, too.

I thought I'd never get it since I rarely get sick. THinking is not a preventative measure

If you buy a mask, the tie in the back (versus ear loop) one's make a better seal. Pinch the metal part over your snout and keep adjusting it 'till no air comes out of the sides or bottom. Buy one from a pharmacy as street one's may not be a small enough micron to do the job.

Meanwhile, I'm going on a 100% pork diet to pay them back!

Take care and be well!

Thank you so kind for spreading the word! I'd really appreciated. I plan to visit Cambodia next month (August 30, 2009).

[Thai family 0]

Sorry to hear you're sick, but having a sense of humor is a good sign. Hey, they were wearing masks in Bangkok in 2006. Did they know something we didn't?? Okay, your rendition of Piggy Flu was so funny that I printed it out for my hubby who lives and breaths this scare, though not in the literal sense.

-Thai Mom

Edited August 1, 2009 by Thai family

[Dakine 26]

I've heard only the blue masks will stop the virus. Don't know how true that is?

[HYENA 4]

I think the bird flu way back had them wearing masks (that and pollution)? I think they do know something we don't!

I'm on day 5 being in bed but I'm now sure I have passed the half way point (of the brunt of it) because I'm able to walk outside and get some food at least (without wanting to collapse).

Basically it's just a bad flu with a cold on top of it! Motrin, sudafed zithromax is pretty much all I've had. Night sweats every night, fever but hey...I get to watch TV and be lazy! I felt OK while laying down then would be reminded of it when I stood up.

If you get it in Cambodia, tylenol 3 may help reduce the cough and also reduce inflammation. I've noticed if you can shut that cough down early the duration of the cough is shortened since coughing causes further irritation (that's a non productive cough-but I try to shut mine off regardless).

My fiancee is eating durian; unfortunately there's not cure for that disorder

Given the hygiene isn't the highest (washing dishes, sanitary conditions) I'm sure many more will come down with it. Just more contact with people here than in the USA...more crowds, more contact direct and indirect. I'm not sure if it was standing in a 99 degree public bus or the round of pool at the bar that did it....it could have been a sneeze from across the street for all I know.

I was really scared when i first got it...started thinking about my kids, how I'd get cared for having no insurance. Hospitals here are cheap and do an OK job so this is the best place with no insurance to be (since the USA can bankrupt you for a single visit). Not to fret; it's basically a bad flu. Sickest I've been in a decade (I remember that flu...9 1/2 yrs ago). If My memory serves me right, I think I'll be stuck with a residual cough for another month.

I'm just happy I can stand and walk around and eat at the food trough again!

Oh, one of the identifiers not normally with the regular flu is nausea and intestinal irritation.

Happy bacon, pork and ham eating!

Oh...the blue one's I believe have a small enough micron to reduce your chances. Make sure they're not the home made one's they sell here but the hospital type. Tie in the back is better than the ear loop one's.

Edited August 1, 2009 by HYENA

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Almost everybody in Vietnam wears masks while driving, but I think it has more to do with the fact that everyone is driving a 'semi', so the air is thick with 2-stroke motor oil vapor. A 20 minute ride without a mask in relatively light traffic is like drinking a cup of oil.

Anyway, my fiancee is freaking out over H1N1, even though there have been fewer than 500 confirmed cases in the whole country so far. According to her, it's like bird flu all over again - a lot of people have begun wearing surgical masks when they're out in public, especially in the big cities. The "experts" are saying this is largely a waste of time and money.

The flu virus itself is not an airborne contagion. It can be carried in the droplets that people cough up, but it stays in the air only as long as those droplets stay in the air, which is a matter of seconds. The mask can stop the droplets, but it can't stop the virus, which can easily pass through anything that air can pass through. In other words, the only chance you have of getting the virus from breathing is if someone who is in the contagious phase of the illness coughs in your face.

The majority of people who get the flu are getting it from touching a contaminated surface, and then touching their mouth or nose. Person A is sick, and uses their hand to cover their mouth when they cough. They use the lavatory and leave the virus on the door handle. Person B picks up the virus on their hand when opening the lavatory door. They infect themselves when they put their hand up to their mouth or nose, perhaps when eating.

If you're going to be in a crowd, where people might cough on you, then it wouldn't hurt to wear a mask. Much more important to prevent getting sick is to wash your hands with soap after touching anything that other people have touched, especially before eating. Antibacterial 'waterless' hand cleansers won't help. They contain alcohol, which is effective against bacteria but not against viruses. The alkali in soap will kill the virus.

If you want to get surgical masks, the best ones are non-woven (paper, etc.) that are molded so that they don't touch your mouth or nose. With a cloth mask that touches your skin you can still come into contact with droplets from a cough or sneeze because the droplets can will wick through the cloth.

[ScottThuy 140]

It was recently all over the news in HaNoi about the severity of H1N1 and that schools had been converted to hospital to treat those infected and limit transmission in Vn. We all know the hygene standards there and that once something like this takes off it will run its course... the weak will die and immunity will be built up over time... My son went for his shots for school yesterday and they said they are preparing for an epiddemic in the US this winter... one must wonder how serious it will be... thousands of people die from the flu every year.. this is just another strain of it... eating right and exercising is a great advantage as one must be strong enough to fight off any form of infection.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

It was recently all over the news in HaNoi about the severity of H1N1 and that schools had been converted to hospital to treat those infected and limit transmission in Vn. We all know the hygene standards there and that once something like this takes off it will run its course... the weak will die and immunity will be built up over time... My son went for his shots for school yesterday and they said they are preparing for an epiddemic in the US this winter... one must wonder how serious it will be... thousands of people die from the flu every year.. this is just another strain of it... eating right and exercising is a great advantage as one must be strong enough to fight off any form of infection.

According to the WHO report dated yesterday, there are 794 cases of H1N1 in Vietnam. They also say that all cases are infected people who arrive by air, or people who have been in close contact with infected visitors. If all of those cases were in one village then I could understand converting a school into a hospital, but in a country of over 80 million it's a pretty small fraction. It almost sounds like the VN government is intentionally trying to scare people.

[ScottThuy 140]

It was recently all over the news in HaNoi about the severity of H1N1 and that schools had been converted to hospital to treat those infected and limit transmission in Vn. We all know the hygene standards there and that once something like this takes off it will run its course... the weak will die and immunity will be built up over time... My son went for his shots for school yesterday and they said they are preparing for an epiddemic in the US this winter... one must wonder how serious it will be... thousands of people die from the flu every year.. this is just another strain of it... eating right and exercising is a great advantage as one must be strong enough to fight off any form of infection.

According to the WHO report dated yesterday, there are 794 cases of H1N1 in Vietnam. They also say that all cases are infected people who arrive by air, or people who have been in close contact with infected visitors. If all of those cases were in one village then I could understand converting a school into a hospital, but in a country of over 80 million it's a pretty small fraction. It almost sounds like the VN government is intentionally trying to scare people.

It could be like was the case in NY where they had a few people infected and they shut down the school but in VN instead of saying go home they said stay here... to keep tighter control of spread. Not saying anything bad about VN people, but when they say something on the news there... people jump and take it way too seriously... This may be a result of the ####### they went through and are still going through with bird flu... They likely dont want to deal with anything like that again so better safe and scared than dead...

[HYENA 4]

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/guidance_homecare.htm

The above link is to reduce misinformation (hand sanitizers and alcohol kills viruses) http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm

The droplet/aerosol size is negligible compared to the thickness of the mask and surface tension at that micron size typically negates droplet burst unless it's smeared in and still the mere size is minute so wicking has never been a CDC or WHO concern (unless one receives a wet sneeze point blank).

Think about last time you sprayed bug spray and how long you could smell it. One sneeze is like a shot of bug spray except it's odorless and won't clear out a room like bug spray does. Those droplets fall on all surfaces like micro-rain waiting for a hand to touch it and itch one's nose. Viewed under a microscope they look like melons in a garden because of their surface tension or micro-cam they hang in the air for long periods of time. Humidity is nothing more than water in the air so air time can be long for this size particle.

No need to panic. I'm on day 5 in bed and I'm not dying. I just can't walk more than 50 feet and I'm in pretty good shape. Couple that with the very young, obese or elderly and it can be lethal (just like the regular flu so there's no need to panic). The concern is the ability of this to morph into something lethal since it came from an animal and we were lucky this was just a heavy flu. There are already resistant strains morphing so we'll see how this turns out.

The best thing you can do is wear the nicest mask you can find, throw it in a sealed trash bag when you get home then wash your hooves or use antibacterial stuff. It's as simple as that. Worrying about side issues will just cause stress. Many of us will come down with it given enough time.

It's been 9 1/2 years since I've been this sick but for the vast majority it's survivable. Statistics aren't too far from the regular flu.

I'm not sure if the CDC or WHO is estimating or only going with confirmed cases but they stopped testing at some places here and are just treating it (they're tourist reduction paranoid in Thailand and their gov't has a long history of misinformation).

I'm in Bangkok and shut inside an apartment so I haven't been counted. I know several entire families infected who have shut themselves in at home and also not sought medical treatment (yet). I wonder if their statistics account for shut-ins.

I'd say after 5 days I'm 20% better. sometimes I feel just fine 'till I get up and try to do something.

Edited August 1, 2009 by HYENA

[HYENA 4]

Correction: The Thais are saying 201 cases. I find this laughable and completely insane! I just got an email from yet another friend taking off work and heading home 'cause her entire family is sick. Think about how they eat here. We share a single drinking glass or bottle and eat with our hands out of shared plates and bowls (in the country). Add one infected person who goes to work and shares food at work or touches another then all their families...add 2 weeks (and the fact you're contagious up to 2 days before you really feel sick and several days after) and you've got 1,000 cases easily.

They're expecting 50,000 cases but remember they're NOT testing everyone here since the treatment is the same. If you've got money they're testing you. If you're poor from what I've been told they're saying "It's OK piggy or not it's just the flu". Nothing wrong with that for this bout of it since it will reduce the panic. I really thought I wasn't going to make it only because of the hype until I researched it and once my fever broke I came to my senses.

Thailand is claiming no deaths due to piggy flu but interestingly the news said the toll was 30 4 nights ago. This is typical of the Thais. They'll release low numbers to keep tourism high and sweep major crimes and scams under the carpet. Name the issue and controversy regarding honesty will surround but at least that's all known and predictable.

Based only on who I know, I'd think it's higher BUT there may also be a regular nasty flu virus floating around along side piggy flu. These friends are reporting (interestingly) that their entire family has never been sick like this before, though. I have my suspicions (albeit completely unprovable).

I can say if I were very young or old or obese I can see how this could be lethal. I wouldn't panic. Let's just say a nasty flu is out and regardless of if it's piggy or not, protect yourselves.

[HYENA 4]

OK back to back...Thailand denied any deaths then a reporter comes out with this:

The virus claimed another life yesterday, as a health specialist attributed a recent increase in new infections to better reporting rather than increasing prevalence of H1N1.

Disease Control Department director-general ML Somchai Chakrabandhu said new cases of flu, normally reported daily on the Public Health Ministry's website, http://www.moph.go.th, now will be updated every Wednesday.

"We will give weekly updates instead, to avoid confusion," he said.

The department has also decided to change the process of laboratory testing for A (H1N1).

Tests now will be done for severe cases and sampling cases only.

ML Somchai said lab tests mean nothing at the moment because 80% of people with flu symptoms probably also have the H1N1 virus.

I still wouldn't be surprised if the 50,000 number was accurate. People are getting sick by the dozens here. Wait a month and we'll see what they say. At least they do confirm my reports they're not testing everyone anymore. I think many governments with something to lose will purposefully under report while desperately trying to internally control the spread.

[Thai family 0]

If you must cough, try doing so in your armpit It sounds nuts, but it avoids transmission through the buggy hands, or hooves, whatever you wish to call them. It is a bit tougher to blow your snout that way. I am not OCD, but I've always wiped down frequently touched surfaces with rubbing alcohol if anyone is sick - computer mouse, handle to microwave, TV remote, sink faucets, door knobs, etc. Clorox clean-up is my friend, too Mr. Monk was right - they are out to get you. Oh, the dangers of taking microbiology at an impressionable age.

With the H1N! there is a concern that young people will be heavily affected, as their immune systems are generally strong and over-react, causing a cytokine storm. In the course of researching avian influenza, my husband went through cemetaries looking for headstones from 1918 and found quite a few. People were dying young, like in their twenties. This is where H1N1 differs from seasonal flu. I am old enough to hope to have some immunity (okay, I wasn't alive in 1918), and am concerned about my kids, who are all in their twenties.

-Thai Mom

[HYENA 4]

If you must cough, try doing so in your armpit It sounds nuts, but it avoids transmission through the buggy hands, or hooves, whatever you wish to call them. It is a bit tougher to blow your snout that way. I am not OCD, but I've always wiped down frequently touched surfaces with rubbing alcohol if anyone is sick - computer mouse, handle to microwave, TV remote, sink faucets, door knobs, etc. Clorox clean-up is my friend, too Mr. Monk was right - they are out to get you. Oh, the dangers of taking microbiology at an impressionable age.

With the H1N! there is a concern that young people will be heavily affected, as their immune systems are generally strong and over-react, causing a cytokine storm. In the course of researching avian influenza, my husband went through cemetaries looking for headstones from 1918 and found quite a few. People were dying young, like in their twenties. This is where H1N1 differs from seasonal flu. I am old enough to hope to have some immunity (okay, I wasn't alive in 1918), and am concerned about my kids, who are all in their twenties.

-Thai Mom

agreed 100% ! ching-ching!

It seems pneumonia sets in which is the killer in the regular flu.

I wish I were in my 20's. I agree about the overreaction but also a 20yr old body is pretty darn strong and more than likely fit. THe deaths I'm seeing are old, obese (maybe heavy smokers) and young so far. Anyone see any different?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/guidance_homecare.htm

The above link is to reduce misinformation (hand sanitizers and alcohol kills viruses) http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm

The droplet/aerosol size is negligible compared to the thickness of the mask and surface tension at that micron size typically negates droplet burst unless it's smeared in and still the mere size is minute so wicking has never been a CDC or WHO concern (unless one receives a wet sneeze point blank).

Thanks for the info. I remember reading an article from the journal Clinical Infection and Disease back during the avian flu epidemic that found that alcohol worked, but was not as effective as old fashion soap and water at killing the flu virus. I can't find the link to the article, but I found an article that refers to it:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4816024_handwashin...isk-of-flu.html

I'm still trying to find the article I read about surgical masks. Basically, it said that 'contact' masks like surgeons wear were designed to prevent the surgeon from infecting the patient, and not the other way around. It recommend non-contact masks to protect the wearer from infection, and specifically mentioned wicking as the reason. I can't for the life of me remember who published the article, so I'm having a hard time finding it. I'll post a link if I do.