Lt. Watada is a real deal hero

[ual777 0]

I hope this guy gets 10 years instead of 7.

My reasoning for this is that he is an OFFICER. How do you think that this affects morale in his unit and among the men below him?

An officer swears an oath to uphold the ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. It doesn't matter if the U.N. says it is illegal, wrong, right, justified, unjustified, whatever.

An officer is also not supposed to make statements to the media reflecting personal belief in uniform. It is against the MCJ. Ditto for attending anti-war rallies, political rallies, pro-war rallies, etc.

The charges against him are just and called for, and he WILL go to jail, barring some miracle.

Officer

I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.

Enlisted

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Honor and integrity?

Where is the honor in swearing an OATH and then renaging?

Where is the integrity in watching the rest of his Infantry unit or squad leave for deployment without him ( he who has been trained -at great expense- for that very job-i.e leading his unit in the time of battle).

We have a VOLUNTEER military force.

No draft no conscription. He willingly volunteered.

He brings up "honor " and "integrity". Doesn't he owe the rest of his unit the very same?

What has the nation been paying his salary for? Where is the honor and integrity in this?

OK, so he doesn't agree with the war in Iraq. It's not like working for Microsoft. You cannot pick and choose the contracts you want to do and disregard the ones you don't. He knew that when he VOLUNTEERED! It was all explained to him at the time of commissioning, make no mistake about that! It would have also been explained that under UCMJ there is consequences for failure to follow lawful orders, and like it or not, initially the call to war WAS approved by congress-and has as of yet NOT been rescinded. Thus-LAWFUL and correctly executed orders, like it or not.

So his excuse is that his view on the war in Iraq has changed. Well, that's too bad....he is a coward, nothing more.

Sorry caught up with this debate so late-and only time for one reply too! Just had to add to it, though as this story really boils me!

two thumbs up for that

i wonder what would happen if others in the usa took that example. firefighters refusing to go to a fire because of a fear of flames. policemen afraid of drug users. emt personnel refusing to treat someone because of a sudden fear of blood, and so on.

the end result is, this so called soldier (and a commisioned officer to boot) swore an oath to protect and defend, to obey the orders of potus and those appointed over him, and he refused. what kind of example does he set for every soldier of lesser rank?

the end result of all of this, like it or not, he'll at the least get a bcd, he'll be forgotten about by those championing his name and cause today within 5 years, and his employment prospects afterward will be bleak. after all, who would want to hire someone who may decide one day that his job is not to his liking?

[Fandango 1,439]

I guess some people have different deffos for honor and integrity, God help us all!

Edited July 10, 2006 by LisaD

[tmma 467]

Oh and while I am on-I just can't resist adding another thought.....

A question, if he feels that the orders are unlawful-why didn't he stand in Crawford with Cindy Sheehan and object when his compadres were all getting deployed? This war in Iraq has been going on for ages now.

Why does he have a problem with it NOW all of a sudden? I'll tell you why, because it's HIM now that has orders.......

I hope he has had his LAST salute. I really do. I hope he is breaking big rocks into little rocks for a very long time.

Integrity-Pfffft!

edit-grammar-but wth-you get my drift.

Edited July 10, 2006 by tmma

[Boiler 45,492]

He can count himself lucky.

In another age he would have had his back to a wall in front of a firing squad.

It reads to me that he signed up for the goodies and when he got a posting he did not like wimped out.

But who knows, we will never.

[*Robert* 2]

I hope this guy gets 10 years instead of 7.

My reasoning for this is that he is an OFFICER. How do you think that this affects morale in his unit and among the men below him?

An officer swears an oath to uphold the ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. It doesn't matter if the U.N. says it is illegal, wrong, right, justified, unjustified, whatever.

An officer is also not supposed to make statements to the media reflecting personal belief in uniform. It is against the MCJ. Ditto for attending anti-war rallies, political rallies, pro-war rallies, etc.

The charges against him are just and called for, and he WILL go to jail, barring some miracle.

You beat me to this, and stated it much more eloquently than I would have! After reading all the posts up to this point, it did need to be pointed out that as an Officer, he falls under a special set of rules and guidlines. It seems it is those guidlines that are going to put him jail for a long time.

In my earlier posts I didn't say whether or not I felt he was a hero, but I did say I felt what he did was wrong. As for being a hero... not even close. Calling him a hero would be disgrace to all the true heros that have died in the service of their country saving the lives of their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines.

As an officer, he is held to a higher standard, and as such, has brought shame to the other men and women of the armed services.

P.S. Robert, thanks for posting the proper oath, as he is an officer, not enlisted!

[Alex+R 0]

Wow. Just read the whole thread. There are a million points made here that make my blood boil, but in short, I can't believe how many people actually argue that following orders is following orders, under all circumstances in the military. It's attitudes like these that are slowly (well, quickly) smothering dissent in this country--doesn't sound like upholding the Constitution very well to me.

Well, we are already an increasingly fascist state, might as well incorporate all components of a good one.

*Now see more clearly why my boyfriend wants all future kids to attend schools outside the US, where they will not be indoctrinated with this BS POV.

[Fandango 1,439]

God, I love how in fashion it is to bash the USA....

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Wow. Just read the whole thread. There are a million points made here that make my blood boil, but in short, I can't believe how many people actually argue that following orders is following orders, under all circumstances in the military. It's attitudes like these that are slowly (well, quickly) smothering dissent in this country--doesn't sound like upholding the Constitution very well to me.

Well, we are already an increasingly fascist state, might as well incorporate all components of a good one.

*Now see more clearly why my boyfriend wants all future kids to attend schools outside the US, where they will not be indoctrinated with this BS POV.

you really missed the boat with that part in bold. go back and read again.

[Fandango 1,439]

Wouldnt' it be nice to be in a military that pays for everything, trains you, invests in you, blah blah blah, and then doesnt expect you to follow orders? Like 'pretty please you feel like waking up in the morning before noon?'

Gimme a break! Land of the frickin unicorns and gumdrops!

[*Robert* 2]

God, I love how in fashion it is to bash the USA....

You let that one off WAY too easy!!!

I thought I'd let some others have a go first, because when I read it, I just shook may head and thought.. #######???

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm

Wouldnt' it be nice to be in a military that pays for everything, trains you, invests in you, blah blah blah, and then doesnt expect you to follow orders? Like 'pretty please you feel like waking up in the morning before noon?'

Gimme a break! Land of the frickin unicorns and gumdrops!

Okay... getting warmer!!!

[Alex+R 0]

Wouldnt' it be nice to be in a military that pays for everything, trains you, invests in you, blah blah blah, and then doesnt expect you to follow orders? Like 'pretty please you feel like waking up in the morning before noon?'

Gimme a break! Land of the frickin unicorns and gumdrops!

I don't know, I don't want my tax dollars going to fund people who are trained not to think for themselves. To know when to follow an order and when not to. Clearly, it is within reason to follow an order of waking up at a regulated time. That is hardly relevant to the discussion.

also Charles you're right, and I especially that your opinion was more nuanced-- not everyone's was. The bold part was sort of a 'nutshell' simplification. No need to take it all literally.

[Fandango 1,439]

Next military training: war tactics with water balloons on the lido deck....please come if you want....

Wouldnt' it be nice to be in a military that pays for everything, trains you, invests in you, blah blah blah, and then doesnt expect you to follow orders? Like 'pretty please you feel like waking up in the morning before noon?'

Gimme a break! Land of the frickin unicorns and gumdrops!

I don't know, I don't want my tax dollars going to fund people who are trained not to think for themselves. To know when to follow an order and when not to. Clearly, it is within reason to follow an order of waking up at a regulated time. That is hardly relevant to the discussion.

also Charles you're right, and I especially that your opinion was more nuanced-- not everyone's was. The bold part was sort of a 'nutshell' simplification. No need to take it all literally.

Well you either need to stop paying taxes or move to...erm, hold on...thinking here...

[Alex+R 0]

God, I love how in fashion it is to bash the USA....

Maybe wherever you are. In most of the country it's much more convenient and *ahem* fashionable to accept whatever is shoved down your throat by mainstream media (who I've worked for--no, not as a journalist--and see bias in every day).

I would never bash my country. I love this country. I am disgusted with my government. Big distinction, one many people fail to make.

[Fandango 1,439]

God, I love how in fashion it is to bash the USA....

Maybe wherever you are. In most of the country it's much more convenient and *ahem* fashionable to accept whatever is shoved down your throat by mainstream media (who I've worked for--no, not as a journalist--and see bias in every day).

I would never bash my country. I love this country. I am disgusted with my government. Big distinction, one many people fail to make.

It's the military, get real. They are based on orders. They know that going in. Dissent and doing your 'own thing' could get people killed. Get your head out of the clouds and think for a second.

Jeeez people....I mean really.