Why ObamaCare Can't Work

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Don't go there Marc, you'll only make yourself look silly again.

Non answer! More like you dont wanna go there cuz your premise is all fvcked up.

a non answer?

marc ... you have the gift for understatement

Just shinin a little light! Thats all.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ah someone else who isn't interested in the topic or what I said - brilliant

Anyways - keep talking amongst yourselves about my "refusal" to participate. After all, its a heck of a lot easier than addressing the topic (or anything close to it).

[mRx 16]

The free market argument makes no sense at all and the reality - which is that the US, having the most private enterprise and market players in this game, is paying by far the most per capita, as a share of GDP, hell, by any measure on health care with the least in overall quality of health care to show for it. All the governments of all the other industrialized nations are faring far better in overall results at a fraction of the cost. This being the reality, the free market fetishists have to ignore a lot of facts and evidence to maintain the conviction that free market is the only answer to the problem we have.

Ignore what facts?

That we have the most private enterprise and market players in the game? You conveniently omit the fact that it is foreshadowed and supported by the massive Leviathan that is government intervention, and that the market system of voluntary exchange has been effectively neutered through subsidized intermediaries, government-granted monopolization, and massive bureaucracy (which is explained quite well in this article, if you'd give it a chance).

That somehow because we pay more, and are not receiving the quality to show for it, that it is somehow a market-failure? These gross market distortions reflect one thing--Monopoly. The only form of which is the government-granted one. If forced to compete, the politically-favored healthcare industry would be forced to operate at lower expenses, and higher quality, or else a successful medical agency would.

High prices aren't justifiable due to the life-necessitating value or their service, as is the obvious case with the food industry, they are only justifiable and sustainable when barricaded behind a monopolistic government grant.

You seem very passionate about the state of our healthcare system, Big Dog... Dump that "free-market fetishist" mindset (although it's cute, in a Marxy kinda-way). The government doesn't give a sh!t about your healthcare, but those who seek to voluntarily exchange their medical service for your dollars most certainly do. But this government-created monopoly won't stand for such consumer-driven exchanges taking place. For that would threaten the cartel's profits, which would in turn, lighten the politician's pockets.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Ah someone else who isn't interested in the topic or what I said - brilliant

Anyways - keep talking amongst yourselves about my "refusal" to participate. After all, its a heck of a lot easier than addressing the topic (or anything close to it).

I will interpret: Dammit leave me alone.

[natty bumppo 297]

Ah someone else who isn't interested in the topic or what I said - brilliant

Anyways - keep talking amongst yourselves about my "refusal" to participate. After all, its a heck of a lot easier than addressing the topic (or anything close to it).

I will interpret: Dammit leave me alone.

actually ... PP ... send me a PM with some data if you don't wish to post on the board.

I'm curious and welcome the chance to read something other than my industry specific technical data.

[mRx 16]

I guess we should be thankful that those pharmaceutical corporations are protecting the weak and vulnerable by conducting their human trials in Africa, rather than on taxpaying consumers in the US!

I see I'm still accorded the strawman post.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I guess we should be thankful that those pharmaceutical corporations are protecting the weak and vulnerable by conducting their human trials in Africa, rather than on taxpaying consumers in the US!

I see I'm still accorded the strawman post.

You are?

[mRx 16]

I guess we should be thankful that those pharmaceutical corporations are protecting the weak and vulnerable by conducting their human trials in Africa, rather than on taxpaying consumers in the US!

I see I'm still accorded the strawman post.

You are?

Yeah. You did post it right after me. Internet-colloquial would suggest it was directed at me.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yes....

I disputed the assertion that the free market protects the weak and vulnerable. In the context of healthcare - there is ample evidence to the effect that that isn't the case.

You don't get more weak and vulnerable than the captive populations of 3rd world countries.

[mRx 16]

C'mon, you took a hyperbolic stance against an incident I wasn't defending.

You know as much as I do that violence against anyone, rich or poor, black or white-- is a crime; and to insinuate that it is inherent in the market system is plain silly.

Unless these exploitations of the weak and captive is not meant as crime (in the literal sense), but merely a dysphemism of your disdain towards the voluntary wages one's labor is sold for to a prospective buyer.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But these practices aren't "crimes" in the strictest sense, are they...

[mRx 16]

But these practices aren't "crimes" in the strictest sense, are they...

That's what I'm asking.

Aggressions against individuals are crimes. Non-coerced, voluntarily agreements to mutually-beneficial contracts are not crimes, much to your disappointment.

[mRx 16]

.

Edited July 31, 2009 by -Matt-

[Kathryn41 3,205]

personal attacks are not necessarily. Discuss the issue but leave the unnecessary personal comments out of it. Thank you - I see you edited your comment.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Kathryn41

[mRx 16]

Self-moderation.