My Vietnamese Brother - Inability to Follow Directions

[aaron2020 11,651]

I'm venting, please let me know if I am overreacting.

My brother's PD is current in the F3 category. The I-864 and DS-230 has been submitted. The HCMC consulate gave him a verbal on an interview date at the end of October - he has not received written notice for the interview.

This is where I am getting frustrated. He forwarded the completed DS-230, birth certificates, marriage certificate and police reports. He was told to retain photocopies of all documents in case it was needed. Guess what? He didn't make a single copy and has now asked me to send him copies. #######????

He was also told to request 2 originals (or certified originals) of his marriage certificate, birth certificates for the family and police reports for the family. It was explained to him that one set would be submitted to the NVC and that he should retain the other for the interview in case the set submitted to the NVC ends up lost. Guess what? He said he didn't want to spend the money to request 2 sets. Now he wants me to send the original to him because he heard that he needs them for the interview. #######???? Is a $100 worth the aggravation if the NVC set is lost?

Do Vietnamese people just wing things? Do they think that US immigration laws and procedures should be flexible to the Vietnamese way of doing things or do they think that the whole world operates that way Vietnam does?

Years ago, my brother asked if we could bribe someone to make the system go faster for him. #######???? Is there anything I can do to prepare him for life in the US? Working within the parameters of the system is so much easier than having to fix "mistakes." He may know how to navigate the Vietnamese systems of doing things but I am afraid he will screw himself when he tries to apply the Vietnamese ways to life in the US.

Anyone else gets frustrated with their Vietnamese family doing or insisting on doing things the Vietnamese way when it comes to US immigration?

Edited July 29, 2009 by aaron2020

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

He's used to dealing with a government that makes unreasonable demands, knowing full well that most of those demands will be waved with a little "coffee money". You should probably educate him about the American government. This kind of corruption is rare in the US government, and if he tries to pay off a US government official then he's likely to end up in jail, and THEN be deported!

Try to teach your brother how the US government works before he ends up in big trouble.

[Huong and Phung 0]

I'm venting, please let me know if I am overreacting.

My brother's PD is current in the F3 category. The I-864 and DS-230 has been submitted. The HCMC consulate gave him a verbal on an interview date at the end of October - he has not received written notice for the interview.

This is where I am getting frustrated. He forwarded the completed DS-230, birth certificates, marriage certificate and police reports. He was told to retain photocopies of all documents in case it was needed. Guess what? He didn't make a single copy and has now asked me to send him copies. #######????

He was also told to request 2 originals (or certified originals) of his marriage certificate, birth certificates for the family and police reports for the family. It was explained to him that one set would be submitted to the NVC and that he should retain the other for the interview in case the set submitted to the NVC ends up lost. Guess what? He said he didn't want to spend the money to request 2 sets. Now he wants me to send the original to him because he heard that he needs them for the interview. #######???? Is a $100 worth the aggravation if the NVC set is lost?

Do Vietnamese people just wing things? Do they think that US immigration laws and procedures should be flexible to the Vietnamese way of doing things or do they think that the whole world operates that way Vietnam does?

Years ago, my brother asked if we could bribe someone to make the system go faster for him. #######???? Is there anything I can do to prepare him for life in the US? Working within the parameters of the system is so much easier than having to fix "mistakes." He may know how to navigate the Vietnamese systems of doing things but I am afraid he will screw himself when he tries to apply the Vietnamese ways to life in the US.

Anyone else gets frustrated with their Vietnamese family doing or insisting on doing things the Vietnamese way when it comes to US immigration?

Well first of all, is your brother an older brother or younger? We have younger and older brother in Vietnamese. Anyway, sounds like your brother just want to get things done and doesn't care about the consequence. Any paperwork submitted in to any government agency, one must keep a copy. Some of them just require a copy of it but immigration case, we need to send in the original. As of ways to bribe the system, he needs to know that this is America and things would be better if it is over the table. People getting sued over crazy things in this country. Just explain to him what will happen when you did something wrong and get sued by someone. That would scare him a little. Good luck on your case.

[Thai family 0]

I hear you banging your head on the wall. Ouch. I did plenty of that. I just made it really clear that they'd better start thinking like a CO and a USCIS adjudicating officer, and that they'd better follow directions and our laws whether they felt like it or not. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to live here in the US together. It seems to have worked. I have also encouraged them to look ahead as to what will be expected in the future, so that they don't shoot themselves in the foot, so to speak. For example, don't vote, as that is akin to claiming to be a US citizen (a big no-no). Never work without an EAD or greencard - you will be asked about that in the future, etc., etc. Follow our laws, which requires educating oneself about them. The big one is that you can't just hand over a few $$ to clear up a matter, and you always have to tell the truth, so it's just best to do it from the very beginning. Hopefully they're saving the evidence of what they need. I had to do some convincing about the importance of always having an official birth certificate in her possession. They both seem to have grown in their attention to detail, and they deserve credit for that. They have done everything the right way, and I am proud of them.

It's not hopeless!

-Thai mom

[Anh map 2,098]

I've had a couple of the same rants.

Just like those of us growing up in the US learning that hoi lo can make miracles happen in VN, he is learning that rules apply (for the most part) in the US.

My travels in eastern europe prepared me for the coffee money aspect of VN life. Still makes me shake my head at times. It's part of the learning curve. For both parties.

[hniHnitsuJ 8]

I'm venting, please let me know if I am overreacting.

My brother's PD is current in the F3 category. The I-864 and DS-230 has been submitted. The HCMC consulate gave him a verbal on an interview date at the end of October - he has not received written notice for the interview.

This is where I am getting frustrated. He forwarded the completed DS-230, birth certificates, marriage certificate and police reports. He was told to retain photocopies of all documents in case it was needed. Guess what? He didn't make a single copy and has now asked me to send him copies. #######????

He was also told to request 2 originals (or certified originals) of his marriage certificate, birth certificates for the family and police reports for the family. It was explained to him that one set would be submitted to the NVC and that he should retain the other for the interview in case the set submitted to the NVC ends up lost. Guess what? He said he didn't want to spend the money to request 2 sets. Now he wants me to send the original to him because he heard that he needs them for the interview. #######???? Is a $100 worth the aggravation if the NVC set is lost?

Do Vietnamese people just wing things? Do they think that US immigration laws and procedures should be flexible to the Vietnamese way of doing things or do they think that the whole world operates that way Vietnam does?

Years ago, my brother asked if we could bribe someone to make the system go faster for him. #######???? Is there anything I can do to prepare him for life in the US? Working within the parameters of the system is so much easier than having to fix "mistakes." He may know how to navigate the Vietnamese systems of doing things but I am afraid he will screw himself when he tries to apply the Vietnamese ways to life in the US.

Anyone else gets frustrated with their Vietnamese family doing or insisting on doing things the Vietnamese way when it comes to US immigration?

I am totally understand where you are coming from. You need lot of time, and patience to deal with your brother. He been BRAIN-WASH for so many years for living under VN's rule. I am sure all of us in here has been deal with the same issue with our family or spouse. Just a normal thing for them. Good luck.

p.s. if you brother is a hard-head, use this to this to help him out. hihihihi..j/k

[Kevin and 10]

I'm venting, please let me know if I am overreacting.

My brother's PD is current in the F3 category. The I-864 and DS-230 has been submitted. The HCMC consulate gave him a verbal on an interview date at the end of October - he has not received written notice for the interview.

This is where I am getting frustrated. He forwarded the completed DS-230, birth certificates, marriage certificate and police reports. He was told to retain photocopies of all documents in case it was needed. Guess what? He didn't make a single copy and has now asked me to send him copies. #######????

He was also told to request 2 originals (or certified originals) of his marriage certificate, birth certificates for the family and police reports for the family. It was explained to him that one set would be submitted to the NVC and that he should retain the other for the interview in case the set submitted to the NVC ends up lost. Guess what? He said he didn't want to spend the money to request 2 sets. Now he wants me to send the original to him because he heard that he needs them for the interview. #######???? Is a $100 worth the aggravation if the NVC set is lost?

Do Vietnamese people just wing things? Do they think that US immigration laws and procedures should be flexible to the Vietnamese way of doing things or do they think that the whole world operates that way Vietnam does?

Years ago, my brother asked if we could bribe someone to make the system go faster for him. #######???? Is there anything I can do to prepare him for life in the US? Working within the parameters of the system is so much easier than having to fix "mistakes." He may know how to navigate the Vietnamese systems of doing things but I am afraid he will screw himself when he tries to apply the Vietnamese ways to life in the US.

Anyone else gets frustrated with their Vietnamese family doing or insisting on doing things the Vietnamese way when it comes to US immigration?

I can relate. Tuyen and her mother insisted on using a VN lawyer to prepare our paperwork. I objected, stating I did 99% of it myself and asked "What the hell does he know about US Immigration law?". I humored them and let him prepare the paperwork. He F'ed it up. He forgot one of the forms and I ended up "reorganizing" the packet. All he did was fill out forms for $100.00

[John & Nan 0]

He's used to dealing with a government that makes unreasonable demands, knowing full well that most of those demands will be waved with a little "coffee money". You should probably educate him about the American government. This kind of corruption is rare in the US government, and if he tries to pay off a US government official then he's likely to end up in jail, and THEN be deported!

Try to teach your brother how the US government works before he ends up in big trouble.

if you think the US government is not corrupt, your crazy! maybe less corrupt then other countries. lobbyist are legal corruption

[ScottThuy 140]

He's used to dealing with a government that makes unreasonable demands, knowing full well that most of those demands will be waved with a little "coffee money". You should probably educate him about the American government. This kind of corruption is rare in the US government, and if he tries to pay off a US government official then he's likely to end up in jail, and THEN be deported!

Try to teach your brother how the US government works before he ends up in big trouble.

if you think the US government is not corrupt, your crazy! maybe less corrupt then other countries. lobbyist are legal corruption

Amen to that....

I would rather pay a little coffee money than an impact fee or an assessment ... there is so much corruption here but its a formalized corruption... hmm golf getaways, trips to conferences around the world.. and hmmm what did that Alaskan Senator have done to his home (he got called on it most others dont)? And no corruption in Jersey...Right? Ha..

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

He's used to dealing with a government that makes unreasonable demands, knowing full well that most of those demands will be waved with a little "coffee money". You should probably educate him about the American government. This kind of corruption is rare in the US government, and if he tries to pay off a US government official then he's likely to end up in jail, and THEN be deported!

Try to teach your brother how the US government works before he ends up in big trouble.

if you think the US government is not corrupt, your crazy! maybe less corrupt then other countries. lobbyist are legal corruption

Buying off politicians happens in every country in the world. Buying off low level government officials in order to get them to do their jobs or to ignore some infraction of the rules does not.

Forget to declare that brand new $2500 laptop computer in your luggage? In Vietnam, just slip a little cash into your passport when you hand it to the customs officer. Heck, they'll even help you - they'll hold your passport open and nod once you've dropped enough cash. Try this in the US and you'll be leaving the airport in handcuffs. This kind of corruption is commonplace in Vietnam, but it is rare in the US.

[HYENA 4]

Agreed, all countries are corrupt BUT when it comes to officials and police, no way! I drilled it into my fiancee's head once we started the paperwork that everything 100% honest and ching-ching (or whatever your local equivalent word is for "for sure".

They're smart people; far smarter than us in reading human behavior and "street smarts" but let them know it's the official smarts one needs to succeed in the US. Most of the denials at the embassy here were due to "saving face" answers that changed based on the expression of the agent as they asked questions. Let them know everything needs to be 100% exactly as told and 100% honest.

My fiancee caught on after our RFE. I have a story about an immigrant ready to hand over some money when pulled over by the police...LUCKILY there was a US citizen in the care that said "put the Fing money away unless you want to go to jail for attempted bribery". They were stunned!

Sure we speed and break laws and our politicians are corrupt BUT it's a "polished corrupt" they aren't educated in.

My guess is this is a good lesson and if any others are coming over, he'll be sure to tell them the US is picky and everything you do sticks like glue so get it right the first time.

Honesty is the biggest problem I see with second and third world interviews. Never change an answer (although my fiancee was allowed to change one, it could have cost us our lives). She went in and made an assumption that was not 100% in sync with what I wrote on the "how we met" letter (what exactly I was doing on the internet in the cafe when we met). Luckily this was minor and the agent corrected her and moved right along.

It's imperative for them to understand when under extreme stress and scrutiny during any inquisition NOT to revert to the wishy washy saving face/looking good or changing answers that will do just fine over here. You need to find the translation for "for sure, 100% and succinct...and 100% true and honest". Having never been to the US, I hear the first impression of most immigrants is the fact we do stop at lights, don't drive on the sidewalk and drive between the lines. Most don't use turn signals so we're not yet perfect but the spirit of following the laws is ingrained in us.

We all have a natural innate sense of honesty...try to cultivate that and get them to pay attention to detail!

Tell them the US is lung-mat (picky). I learned all the local words for drilling this home. I think she gets it now and she's excited to see the US and what it looks like when most citizens observe most laws which is never the case in the majority of the rest of the earth.

[John & Nan 0]

Agreed, all countries are corrupt BUT when it comes to officials and police, no way! I drilled it into my fiancee's head once we started the paperwork that everything 100% honest and ching-ching (or whatever your local equivalent word is for "for sure".

They're smart people; far smarter than us in reading human behavior and "street smarts" but let them know it's the official smarts one needs to succeed in the US. Most of the denials at the embassy here were due to "saving face" answers that changed based on the expression of the agent as they asked questions. Let them know everything needs to be 100% exactly as told and 100% honest.

My fiancee caught on after our RFE. I have a story about an immigrant ready to hand over some money when pulled over by the police...LUCKILY there was a US citizen in the care that said "put the Fing money away unless you want to go to jail for attempted bribery". They were stunned!

Sure we speed and break laws and our politicians are corrupt BUT it's a "polished corrupt" they aren't educated in.

My guess is this is a good lesson and if any others are coming over, he'll be sure to tell them the US is picky and everything you do sticks like glue so get it right the first time.

Honesty is the biggest problem I see with second and third world interviews. Never change an answer (although my fiancee was allowed to change one, it could have cost us our lives). She went in and made an assumption that was not 100% in sync with what I wrote on the "how we met" letter (what exactly I was doing on the internet in the cafe when we met). Luckily this was minor and the agent corrected her and moved right along.

It's imperative for them to understand when under extreme stress and scrutiny during any inquisition NOT to revert to the wishy washy saving face/looking good or changing answers that will do just fine over here. You need to find the translation for "for sure, 100% and succinct...and 100% true and honest". Having never been to the US, I hear the first impression of most immigrants is the fact we do stop at lights, don't drive on the sidewalk and drive between the lines. Most don't use turn signals so we're not yet perfect but the spirit of following the laws is ingrained in us.

We all have a natural innate sense of honesty...try to cultivate that and get them to pay attention to detail!

Tell them the US is lung-mat (picky). I learned all the local words for drilling this home. I think she gets it now and she's excited to see the US and what it looks like when most citizens observe most laws which is never the case in the majority of the rest of the earth.

My wife know to be 100% true and honest, even on the thai forum she reads they say the same thing. She already went though a mini interview. they do ask the same line of question when we took chase to get his papers at the embassy. They did not ask for a DNA test so I guess she did good. Nan has a great personalty when she it talking to people. Everyone that meets her gets alone great with her, Hell I feel in love with her right away because of her personalty. I don't think she ever told a lie in her life.

[daboyz 36]

He's used to dealing with a government that makes unreasonable demands, knowing full well that most of those demands will be waved with a little "coffee money". You should probably educate him about the American government. This kind of corruption is rare in the US government, and if he tries to pay off a US government official then he's likely to end up in jail, and THEN be deported!

Try to teach your brother how the US government works before he ends up in big trouble.

Laugh. In Thailand they call it "tea money"

[Dau Que 6]

If it wasn't for the US's honesty in the war, Vietnam wouldn't lose to Vietcong in 1975. Nixon promised lots of things to the Southern regime via its President Nguyen Van Thieu. And then he turned around shaking hands with the Chinese and agreed with Mao behind closed doors to sell Vietnam to the communist. He lobbied Congress to dramatically cut the funding so the South VNese army could not get its army supplies.

If the US is so against communism (the reason it used to get involved in the Vietnam war), then why would it normalize trading with that country while it's still under control by a communist and dictatorship regime as of today?

I guess only certain communist regimes like Cuba and North Korea are worth fighting, but others like Vietnam is OK to "exploit" their cheap labor. After all, someone gotta make those tennis shoes for Americans to wear right?

So my point? Please, stop your moral lesson about "honesty". Anywhere, any society, it's all about $$$$.....PROFITS!!

Edited July 31, 2009 by Dau Que

[NQT1976 1]

I'm venting, please let me know if I am overreacting.

My brother's PD is current in the F3 category. The I-864 and DS-230 has been submitted. The HCMC consulate gave him a verbal on an interview date at the end of October - he has not received written notice for the interview.

This is where I am getting frustrated. He forwarded the completed DS-230, birth certificates, marriage certificate and police reports. He was told to retain photocopies of all documents in case it was needed. Guess what? He didn't make a single copy and has now asked me to send him copies. #######????

He was also told to request 2 originals (or certified originals) of his marriage certificate, birth certificates for the family and police reports for the family. It was explained to him that one set would be submitted to the NVC and that he should retain the other for the interview in case the set submitted to the NVC ends up lost. Guess what? He said he didn't want to spend the money to request 2 sets. Now he wants me to send the original to him because he heard that he needs them for the interview. #######???? Is a $100 worth the aggravation if the NVC set is lost?

Do Vietnamese people just wing things? Do they think that US immigration laws and procedures should be flexible to the Vietnamese way of doing things or do they think that the whole world operates that way Vietnam does?

Years ago, my brother asked if we could bribe someone to make the system go faster for him. #######???? Is there anything I can do to prepare him for life in the US? Working within the parameters of the system is so much easier than having to fix "mistakes." He may know how to navigate the Vietnamese systems of doing things but I am afraid he will screw himself when he tries to apply the Vietnamese ways to life in the US.

Anyone else gets frustrated with their Vietnamese family doing or insisting on doing things the Vietnamese way when it comes to US immigration?

The current communist government is unaceptable,

you guys have to come back there and destroy them. #### vietcong