pictures--photos

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Let us see if this helps.

The OP said that he has ONE photo together with fiancee. That is enough! Why should he sent more than one to prove that they were together? Doesn't one photo show the same as 20 (being together)?

The reason I say this is that my application packet contained only the bare minimum, including TWO photos, ONE copy of a travel voucher together, and ONE copy of a boarding pass to her country. I did not even send copies of the stamps in the passport.

The result? I am either a very lucky person, or going overkill is absolutely unnecessary (despite what most people at VJ seem to think). My petition was approved in five months (normal operating time). I would worry more about background checks and financial position than about these extra things.

I screwed up. I read ONE and he said NONE. Sorry!

Anyway, my advice is still valid. Send what you have as primary evidence and that should be enough. There is no need to overkill your petition.

Besides, remember that DHS has a record of your travel history. If you say that you traveled in January and there is no record of it in DHS' computers, you are in big trouble. But if what you say matches what they have in their computers, then you should have no problem.

They have most information about your trips (if you flew directly from USA). The only thing they don't have is what you did in the countries you visited (internal travel or tours to other countries from there).

Show the proof you have (it helps to write an explanation on every copy) and you will be OK.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I recall reading on VJ within the last week about someone who sent their petition with what they thought was sufficient evidence - photos, boarding passes and the like - they got an RFE for more evidence. They responded, sent more photos, hotel receipts, credit card statements, etc. The petition was DENIED for lack of evidence of having met! Never did get enough information to find out why that particular case got shot down when the poster indicated they'd sent what anyone else would have thought was more than ample evidence. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that the adjudicator saw something they thought was very suspicious in the evidence they originally sent, and was thereafter suspicious of EVERY piece of evidence they sent. Perhaps one of the photos looked doctored...

As Gary said, it depends on the particular adjudicator.

Congrats to those who were approved without photos. Many others have gotten RFE's for not having enough photos. It's anybody's guess why one petition will get approved without photos, and another will get RFE'd or denied even with plenty of photos. It's curious to note, however, that three of the posters who didn't submit any photos and got approved involved beneficiaries in low fraud countries. You'd think this would make more difference at the consulate stage, but who knows if the USCIS adjudicator doesn't also take this into account.

Anyway, some things to consider:

1. When going to meet someone for the first time, a lot of people would be more interested in photos of their fiancee than in photos of both together. I have hundreds of photos of my fiance and myself together, but the ones I have framed on my desk are only her. If it wasn't for this visa process, better than 90% of the photos I have with her in them would not include me. I see myself in the mirror every morning. I don't care to see myself in photos.

2. Not everyone going to meet their potential future wife/husband for the first time is going to be thinking ahead to the visa process, and collecting every scrap of evidence they'll want to submit. An adjudicator might, perhaps, be even more suspicious if the evidence makes it look like the entire visit was carefully choreographed to meet the petition requirements.

3. OP said he had a hotel receipt with both names on it. If I was an adjudicator, I'd find this much more compelling evidence of having met the requirement than a couple of photos. If the hotel was paid for with a credit card, and a copy of the credit card billing statement was included, then I would think that would erase any doubts that the receipt might be a fake.

By the way, someone mentioned getting photos in front of landmarks. This might make the photo more interesting to someone who actually knows what the landmark is, but it doesn't do a thing to help with meeting the requirement of having met within two years. There's nothing in the requirement that says you must have met in the beneficiary's country, and a landmark doesn't establish a date. If you really want the content of the picture to help with satisfying the requirement, then get your picture taken in front of a poster or billboard or banner with a date on it. For example, a billboard with information about some upcoming local festival. You could also use the old trick of getting your picture taken with a newspaper, but those pictures always look staged to me. Just my opinion...

Ok, back to the OP's problem - What you've got may be enough to get your petition approved, but probably not enough to get the visa at the consulate in Manila. You're probably going to want to make another trip or two before the interview. I'd suggest filing after the next trip. You'll have more evidence to submit, and it will look better at the consulate stage if you didn't rush to file the petition immediately after the first meeting.

[wexford65 0]

I highly doubt anyone is stupid enough to photoshop a photo and send it in as evidence.

Starting out life in the US with an illegal action is hardly putting your best foot forward.

I would like to think this suggestion was made as a joke but subsequent posts simply re-enforce the fact that this poster likely has, as indicated in their post, no ethics.

Probably the worst post I have seen on VJ thus far. Download software illegally and use it to make a fraudulent submission.

You might want to check out VJ TOS before you post this type of advice in future.

it may not be ethical...but theres always photoshop.... u can probably even download an illegal copy of it

[NatPatBen 3]

How could you not have photos taken together? It's easy to do self portraits. Any normal couple who are so far apart would want photos together. Seems odd.

My fiance and I spent two months together and have 8GB worth of photos of us together. But then again, she's a photoholic.

Not really. I only had one photo with my fiance from my first three trips to Jamaica. But I'm currently on trip #9, and have taken plenty of pictures from the last 5 trips.

But sometimes when it's just the two of you, you have to be willing to trust a stranger to get good pictures (where you aren't just holding the camera yourself).

I did read the embassy experience of someone who, with his fiancee, took plenty of pictures the day before their interview. They put on diff outfits and took them in diff places, then went to a 1 hr photo development lab. That could be your last resort if you don't have any before the interview.

Edited July 27, 2009 by NatPatBen

[SuperDuper! 230]

I can't believe people are saying it is fine to not submit any fotos as proof of meeting the person.

Do these people like to dance on a tightrope without a net as well?

THen, you have folks here saying/promoting faking fotos with fotoshop, and even assuming the CO's can't tell the difference.

And then, you even have people promoting to illegally download the software in order to fake the fotos in an attempt to defraud the Embassy Counsulate.

How about this: Go visit your bride to be, take plenty of pics, have fun doing it, then come back home and file your 129-F legally and feel confident in getting approved.

[BunzTheMagicSnail 2]

I did read the embassy experience of someone who, with his fiancee, took plenty of pictures the day before their interview. They put on diff outfits and took them in diff places, then went to a 1 hr photo development lab. That could be your last resort if you don't have any before the interview.

and that is why i think the idea that using pics as evidence of a bonafide relationship is garbage for precisely that reason

[SuperDuper! 230]

I did read the embassy experience of someone who, with his fiancee, took plenty of pictures the day before their interview. They put on diff outfits and took them in diff places, then went to a 1 hr photo development lab. That could be your last resort if you don't have any before the interview.

and that is why i think the idea that using pics as evidence of a bonafide relationship is garbage for precisely that reason

It doesn't matter what you think. IT matters what the CO thinks sitting in front of you at the interview, and he or she wants and expects to see PICS.

Play the game smart, or get hurt, the old saying goes. THe choice is up to you.

[Jauque 1]

Pictures are secondary evidence. Secondary evidence is only needed to suppliment weak primary evidence. I would not wait to submit your packet because you don't have any pictures. On the long shot that you do get an RFE, make it your intention to take a trip to the phillipines sometime between now and your expected adjutication date. That way even if you do get an RFE you're going to waste less time than if you put the whole thing on the shelf and waited to submit until you had picture.

See my signature for a better explanation of exactly what the adjuticator's are looking for and what baring country of the beneficiary has on the USCIS portion of this process.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Pictures are secondary evidence. Secondary evidence is only needed to suppliment weak primary evidence. I would not wait to submit your packet because you don't have any pictures. On the long shot that you do get an RFE, make it your intention to take a trip to the phillipines sometime between now and your expected adjutication date. That way even if you do get an RFE you're going to waste less time than if you put the whole thing on the shelf and waited to submit until you had picture.

See my signature for a better explanation of exactly what the adjuticator's are looking for and what baring country of the beneficiary has on the USCIS portion of this process.

Jaque

There are couple of flaws in your reasoning. "secondary" does not mean it is "not needed" or only in the absence of primary evidence. It means it is evidence you produce and/or could alter and therefore is not accepted in itself. The requirement is to provide evidence of meeting in person at least one time within to years PRIOR to filing the petition. There really is NO guide which says "you must have this or that". We see from many people's experience here that many people are asked for further proof of meeting in person, it is IN FACT the number 1 reason, by far, for RFEs on K-1 petitions. You and a few other people either got lucky or had very clear and compelling primary evidence (baording passes on the same flight or joint hotel bills would be pretty strong and the OP does NOT say he has these, he says he has nay boarding passes and itineraries, but itinerieries are not accepted as primary evidence as they are not proof of travel) IF they do not accept his primary evidence only as adequate proof (and you nor I have any way to say if they will) then he cannot just run back and produce photos from before he filed the petition. It isn't like providing a signature or something. The photos do not exist, they can never be MADE to exist in the future once he files the petition. He takes a signifgant risk of having big problems or ultimately having to re-submit after months of delay and loss of $455. That is a fact. Nothing you or I say can change that, doesn't matter what you think, I think or anyone thinks. If the adjudicator does not think it...he loses. And it is a fact the consulate (and Manilla and a few others are known for this) can reject it, send it back and ask for it to be re-affirmed. That can add many more months and we see that often enough that there is a forum for it.

The prudent and safe thing for the petitioner to do is go back to PI and have some fun with his fiancee for a few days and bring the camera this time. Any other process is very risky. The OP can pay his nickle and take his chances.

[SuperDuper! 230]

Pictures are secondary evidence. Secondary evidence is only needed to suppliment weak primary evidence. I would not wait to submit your packet because you don't have any pictures. On the long shot that you do get an RFE, make it your intention to take a trip to the phillipines sometime between now and your expected adjutication date. That way even if you do get an RFE you're going to waste less time than if you put the whole thing on the shelf and waited to submit until you had picture.

See my signature for a better explanation of exactly what the adjuticator's are looking for and what baring country of the beneficiary has on the USCIS portion of this process.

Jaque

There are couple of flaws in your reasoning. "secondary" does not mean it is "not needed" or only in the absence of primary evidence. It means it is evidence you produce and/or could alter and therefore is not accepted in itself. The requirement is to provide evidence of meeting in person at least one time within to years PRIOR to filing the petition. There really is NO guide which says "you must have this or that". We see from many people's experience here that many people are asked for further proof of meeting in person, it is IN FACT the number 1 reason, by far, for RFEs on K-1 petitions. You and a few other people either got lucky or had very clear and compelling primary evidence (baording passes on the same flight or joint hotel bills would be pretty strong and the OP does NOT say he has these, he says he has nay boarding passes and itineraries, but itinerieries are not accepted as primary evidence as they are not proof of travel) IF they do not accept his primary evidence only as adequate proof (and you nor I have any way to say if they will) then he cannot just run back and produce photos from before he filed the petition. It isn't like providing a signature or something. The photos do not exist, they can never be MADE to exist in the future once he files the petition. He takes a signifgant risk of having big problems or ultimately having to re-submit after months of delay and loss of $455. That is a fact. Nothing you or I say can change that, doesn't matter what you think, I think or anyone thinks. If the adjudicator does not think it...he loses. And it is a fact the consulate (and Manilla and a few others are known for this) can reject it, send it back and ask for it to be re-affirmed. That can add many more months and we see that often enough that there is a forum for it.

The prudent and safe thing for the petitioner to do is go back to PI and have some fun with his fiancee for a few days and bring the camera this time. Any other process is very risky. The OP can pay his nickle and take his chances.

Thank you for bringing some sanity here.

This is such a well thought out reply to the erroneous notions floating out here that fotos are not important as evidence.

Forget what the official rule book says about so-called "secondary evidence." What matters is the Counsulate Officer seated in front of you during your interview. He is going to approve or deny your visa ultimately ON A SUBJECTIVE BASIS. It is at his or her discretion to issue you a visa or not. Also, your Visa only provides you the privilege of meeting with the DHS officer at your POE to determine if he or she will let you in the country. This officer reserves the SUBJECTIVE right to turn your butt around back to your country.

If you don't have pics, like 99/100 visa applicants do at the interview, then you are going to be looked upon with suspicion, and have an uphill fight to win your visa. Why not have pics? Digi-cams are inexpensive, and you can snap 10 or 1000 pics at the same price?

It is a flimsy position to take a stand and say pics are not important or necessary to win your visa.

Alas, some people just like to do things the hard (headed) way in life.

Work smart, and then hard!

Peace.

[Jauque 1]

I wasn't saying that he didn't need pictures at all. I was simply stating that at the USCIS, as outlined in their manual, pictures being secondary evidence are not required. My suggestion was that rather than waiting until he had pictures to file he should file now with compelling primary evidence and then plan to have pictures for later stages of the process.

Now obviously you've been on this site longer than I have and had an oppurtunity to perhaps know people that were in a pickle due to not having pictures. All I can go on is the RFE sticky. None of the RFE's in there specifically requested additional pictures, as a matter of fact the majority of the posts where from people who had sent lots of pictures and were requested to send 'additional evidence' and their solution was to send more pictures. Not many people apply without pictures this is true but I've yet to read one post form a person who didn't send pictures and was denied or RFE'd with the request for 'pictures'.

The only information that we can have to go on is what the USCIS tells us and the personal experience of the people on here. So if the USCIS says that photographs are secondary evidence than I'm inclined to believe them as it would not benefit them in any way to lie to us. If the people of VJ who did not submit pictures are not having an issue getting their NOA2's then I'm inclined to believe that as well. I see no flaw in my logic.

Once it makes it to the consulate stage it may be more prudent to have photographs, but the when and why of photographs is much less important at that particular point. From my readings I can tell you that the interviewers in Manilla (for the K-1) do not ask for pictures from this specific trip or that specific trip, everything I've read points to them asking for pictures in general.

[Dakine 26]

My fiance was denied the first time I petitioned. The reason was for not enough pictures. We had 2. One with us holding a newspaper. I thought you only had to prove you met in person. Not that you had a loving bonafide relationship.

In the rejection letter they stated they wanted to see pictires with me, her and her family.

CO checked out phone records and the pictures and said "Welcome to the US".

[Jauque 1]

My fiance was denied the first time I petitioned. The reason was for not enough pictures. We had 2. One with us holding a newspaper. I thought you only had to prove you met in person. Not that you had a loving bonafide relationship.

In the rejection letter they stated they wanted to see pictires with me, her and her family.

CO checked out phone records and the pictures and said "Welcome to the US".

I stand corrected, my apologies.

[Chris_Жанна 11]

it may not be ethical...but theres always photoshop.... u can probably even download an illegal copy of it

Dude, Not cool. Don't give give the OP advice like that. If he photoshops his pics and anyone handling his case finds out then it's pretty much Kaput, Game Over. Forging documents to the Fed is not smiled upon.

"Title 18, United States Code, Section 100 states that whoever willfully and knowingly falsifies a material fact, makes a false statement or makes use of a false document will be fined up to $10,000 or imprisoned up to five years, or both."

DO NOT PHOTOSHOP!

[SuperDuper! 230]

My fiance was denied the first time I petitioned. The reason was for not enough pictures. We had 2. One with us holding a newspaper. I thought you only had to prove you met in person. Not that you had a loving bonafide relationship.

In the rejection letter they stated they wanted to see pictires with me, her and her family.

CO checked out phone records and the pictures and said "Welcome to the US".

Yes, I've heard of many cases similar to yours. This is where the SUBJECTIVE interpretation of pics take place. One VJ'r recently was RFE because the CO at the USEM said her pics did not show togetherness, smiling and having fun, as a couple in love behave. So besides having pics of standing like a statue holding a newspaper, the couple needs to convince their relationship is based on love, closeness, family and all those SUBJECTIVE type things that seasoned CO's know to look for--and will DENY you and SURPRISE you because they CARE about stopping phony Green Card Hunters from entering the USA. Best wishes to you!