Canadians on US Health Care reform

[endoftheroad 1]

... Michael Moore's SICKO simply serves to further spread and enforce such propaganda...

... some people want to flip that entirely and make it far too socialist...

... Michael Moore and agree with some things he says, his films are pushing HIS agenda. It's just as much propaganda as an Uncle Sam poster.

Interesting, calling Moore's SICKO propaganda without saying why. Is that called rhetoric? There's a difference between propaganda and opinion. Even throwing out the "socialist" label? Conservatives have no suggested answers.

I'll just step out of this convo and agree to disagree.

toodles.

Edited July 27, 2009 by usagroom

[Sprailenes 47]

I am glad I have insurance too, but what if I didn't? What if the blood tests were necessary to my health and well-being and I couldn't afford them? Those are the people I think about and worry about.

co-sign!

[chochamu 0]

This is the one aspect of moving to the US that scares me and worries everyone around me. I have rheumatoid arthritis so i get blood work every 6 weeks, see my rhuematologist every 6 months and on a medication here in Canada that runs about 1500.00 a month!! I have employer insurance that doesn't cover it but also have Trillium drug coverage in Ontario that does i only pay 2000.00 a year based on my wife's and I's annual income. Now out of that luckily my wife's work insurance now covers that deductible so i end up paying nothing. I know that will change and it scares the sh!t out of me but for the first few months or years i can drive up and take care of my meds than drive back. I also work in a Pharmacy as a tech and see it all the time with some patients who come back just for 6 more months of meds. Also get calls from Americans asking how much this is and then ask why its so much less, so yeah the price gauging in the us is pretty bad when it comes to medications and i guess the gauging with services and visits and what not i will experience first hand in the hopefully not to distant future. I always tell my wife the least the US government can do is pay for child birth they will get there money back 100x more once that child starts paying taxes LOL. Anyways i have bigger fish to fry right now in the process than getting bummed out over an unknown like my health care. Oh yeah also i see a lot of misuse of the system here in Canada as well, alot of people rush out to the walk in clinics and what not to early and for evey little thing to get fed antibiotics by a doctor who doesn't care and wants to squeeze as many patients in as they can in a day. Thats not all doctors but there are some bad apples here in Canada as well. Plus here in Ontario we are starting to see more and more clinics without doctors and only nurse practitioners writing out RX's for common medications. But like many of you have said the system here in Canada is not perfect. Very interesting topic i will definitly follow the opinions here.

[Carlawarla 1]

From my experience, what I see that is fundamentally different between the two health care systems is a set of values that are different. In Canada, the majority of people believe that everyone should receive healthcare, and that it's a basic human right. Here in the U.S. the flavour appears to be that the amount of money you make is dependent on what kind of medical assistance you should receive. A several tiered system. This is directly proportioned to the length of time you get assistance as well. Everything is tied to how much you make, as if that raises your importance in society. That attitude, is not just in the healthcare discussions but about everything here, and I think that's something that so drastically different about living here, for ME. Everything is about "me...me...me...", and all those "me" people who believe "everyone else" doesn't "deserve" it as much as them. *sigh*

Edited July 27, 2009 by Carlawarla

[BermyCat 1]

From my experience, what I see that is fundamentally different between the two health care systems is a set of values that are different. In Canada, the majority of people believe that everyone should receive healthcare, and that it's a basic human right. Here in the U.S. the flavour appears to be that the amount of money you make is dependent on what kind of medical assistance you should receive. A several tiered system. This is directly proportioned to the length of time you get assistance as well. Everything is tied to how much you make, as if that raises your importance in society. That attitude, is not just in the healthcare discussions but about everything here, and I think that's something that so drastically different about living here, for ME. Everything is about "me...me...me...", and all those "me" people who believe "everyone else" doesn't "deserve" it as much as them. *sigh*

Every time I get upset about living here, this is the reason.

~ Catherine

[KarenCee 3]

I had to go to the emergency room once while living here. Last year I had an asthma attack and was rushed to the hospital. I can't speak for all hospitals but the nurses in the ER just seemed like I was a burden on them and they continuously stated that I should have called my doctor before coming to the hospital.

I'll remember that! The next time I can't breath I'll attempt to pick up the phone and call my doctor on a Saturday and see if it's necessary I seek the treatment from the ER because my inhaler won't do ####### for me.

Lovely.

I don't care if I have insurance, or if my husband has insurance. I am worried about all of the Americans who don't have insurance. When I first started working here, I started out at a hotel, and I spoke to many people who worked hard every day but who couldn't afford insurance. I found that pretty disgusting. The stories I heard were absolutely horrible. It's not all about you, or your insurance... it's about the country as a whole. I just feel like many Americans are forgetting about their fellow Americans when it comes to health care.

Oh I know how you feel! The last time I was in hospital for asthma I wound up being there for a week, after I was rushed to the ER and I felt like such a bother. Pain in the ####### to be sure and nothing they did at the hospital wasn't anything I couldn't do at home...and no one could tell me why I was being kept there. Other than they figured they would milk my insurance company for all they could.

Just sayin.

But even Canadians don't know much about the system down here. I have had many friends ask me: "Giving up free health care?"

Free???

It's far from free.

I never minded paying extreme taxes, I don't mind taxes and I agree with taxes. But calling the system free is just a bit far.

Joel says the same thing. At least everyone has coverage...the taxes paid for it. Down here there are way too many uninsured.

I've experienced both the American and Canadian versions of health care. Neither one is perfect, but if I had my choice, I'd go with American health care. It does cost more, but as with most things in life, you get what you pay for.

In the U.S., I've never had to wait more than a few days for any procedure. If I wanted to see a doctor -- a specialist, not a GP -- I could do so within a day or two. There was never any wait and I certainly didn't need a referral. Did I need health insurance? Yup. I had Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Texas and it certainly wasn't cheap, but it paid for my prescription medication and I never had to wait to see a doctor. That alone makes the cost worth it.

In Canada, it's difficult to find a GP who is even accepting patients. Once you do, however, you need to get a referral from them in order to see a specialist. Then it's time to play the "waiting game." I've used this example before, but in May my GP scheduled an appointment for me to see an ENT. The earliest I could get squeezed in was the middle of August.

BC Health Care requires premiums (despite the fact you also pay for it in taxation) and it doesn't cover prescription medication. For that I'd need separate insurance from a provider like Blue Cross. Some benefit.

But that's the Canadian health care system -- everyone gets it, but expect long wait times, extra costs in premiums and higher taxes and the need for private insurance if you require medication.

Yeah, I had BCBS. Not sure who your policy was with but the BCBS that I had was expensive and not as good as what you apparently had. Mine was through the state as a state employee...supposedly the best insurance one could have here in Georgia. I had to wait months for a referral. My daughter had to wait months for a referral. My prescription were nominal IF I used generics...which I am fine with. However, my asthma meds are NOT generic yet and I had to pay the highest copay because of it. I guess I'm just trying to say that not all BCBS's are the same. It got so bad that the state of Georgia dropped BCBS and now I have United Healthcare. Now my premiums went down a bit, but my meds went way up. ALL my meds. My copays went from 20 to 30. My deductible went from 400 to 800. But it's better than the alternative...no insurance.

My husband never had a problem seeing his GP. Never had a problem with his health care at all. He's from Nova Scotia. Maybe it's according to the province you live in?

[Sprailenes 47]

From my experience, what I see that is fundamentally different between the two health care systems is a set of values that are different. In Canada, the majority of people believe that everyone should receive healthcare, and that it's a basic human right. Here in the U.S. the flavour appears to be that the amount of money you make is dependent on what kind of medical assistance you should receive. A several tiered system. This is directly proportioned to the length of time you get assistance as well. Everything is tied to how much you make, as if that raises your importance in society. That attitude, is not just in the healthcare discussions but about everything here, and I think that's something that so drastically different about living here, for ME. Everything is about "me...me...me...", and all those "me" people who believe "everyone else" doesn't "deserve" it as much as them. *sigh*

Every time I get upset about living here, this is the reason.

~ Catherine

Same.

It really saddens me.

[KarenCee 3]

From my experience, what I see that is fundamentally different between the two health care systems is a set of values that are different. In Canada, the majority of people believe that everyone should receive healthcare, and that it's a basic human right. Here in the U.S. the flavour appears to be that the amount of money you make is dependent on what kind of medical assistance you should receive. A several tiered system. This is directly proportioned to the length of time you get assistance as well. Everything is tied to how much you make, as if that raises your importance in society. That attitude, is not just in the healthcare discussions but about everything here, and I think that's something that so drastically different about living here, for ME. Everything is about "me...me...me...", and all those "me" people who believe "everyone else" doesn't "deserve" it as much as them. *sigh*

Every time I get upset about living here, this is the reason.

~ Catherine

Same.

It really saddens me.

And me...and I'm the USC. It seems to be a dog eat dog world sometimes here. JMHO of course.

[RYCK 0]

Bertie

In Ontario right now .. especially southern ontario .. pick up a phone and try to get a family doctor ( general practitioner they call em here) it's darn near impossible noone is accepting patients and most offices are way overbooked .. you have an appointment for 10 am but ya sit there till at least 1 or 2 pm because of the "pack em in push em out charge the max" mentality the doctors have. Because of the cutback to the healthcare And the fact there are not enough doctors because noone will pay to get more there. And not to mention all the things the healthcare in canada doesn't cover .. but always floored me when your nasty sick and need to see your doc and you call for an appointment and you hear "we have an appointment in 3 and a half weeks from now" and they wonder why people flood the emergency rooms. And then there is the bad side of healthcare ... thats the reality of it when i left earlier this year .. And if some in this forum complain that i am being negative BOOHOO to them i'll show you the 2 bills sent to me totaling 160,000 dollars that apparently OHIP doesn't cover.

All the government here needs to do is put the insurance companies in their place. And stop the outrageous premium hikes and hiding behind 9/11 as an excuse .. thats not just health insurance thats EVERY INSURANCE COMPANY from car to health to home to life insurance ... and not just in the USA how many seen that happen in Canada too altho not as widespread but was a great excuse and continues to this day. But yes something needs to be done i don't know what the best answer is but you cannot have people living in debt because they are sick and you shouldn't be having people who have to go into debt further cause they need to take the insurance companies to court because all of a sudden they don't feel like paying out on your claims

[KarenCee 3]

RYCK...hubby is from NS. He never EVER had a problem. That's why I suggested that maybe it was depending on which province you live in?

[Sprailenes 47]

From my experience, what I see that is fundamentally different between the two health care systems is a set of values that are different. In Canada, the majority of people believe that everyone should receive healthcare, and that it's a basic human right. Here in the U.S. the flavour appears to be that the amount of money you make is dependent on what kind of medical assistance you should receive. A several tiered system. This is directly proportioned to the length of time you get assistance as well. Everything is tied to how much you make, as if that raises your importance in society. That attitude, is not just in the healthcare discussions but about everything here, and I think that's something that so drastically different about living here, for ME. Everything is about "me...me...me...", and all those "me" people who believe "everyone else" doesn't "deserve" it as much as them. *sigh*

Every time I get upset about living here, this is the reason.

~ Catherine

Same.

It really saddens me.

And me...and I'm the USC. It seems to be a dog eat dog world sometimes here. JMHO of course.

I know many USC who would also agree. My husband and his family all agree. His parents can afford good insurance, but even they think about the bigger picture. As much as I have differences with my MIL she does think about the bigger picture and I do respect that.

I have a few friends who don't see the bigger picture though. They say things like: "I don't trust the government making decisions for me when it comes to health care" but you'll trust an insurance company who seems more concerned with the bottom line and profits?

[RYCK 0]

I read that .. just giving you a picture of somewhere else ...

[KarenCee 3]

From my experience, what I see that is fundamentally different between the two health care systems is a set of values that are different. In Canada, the majority of people believe that everyone should receive healthcare, and that it's a basic human right. Here in the U.S. the flavour appears to be that the amount of money you make is dependent on what kind of medical assistance you should receive. A several tiered system. This is directly proportioned to the length of time you get assistance as well. Everything is tied to how much you make, as if that raises your importance in society. That attitude, is not just in the healthcare discussions but about everything here, and I think that's something that so drastically different about living here, for ME. Everything is about "me...me...me...", and all those "me" people who believe "everyone else" doesn't "deserve" it as much as them. *sigh*

Every time I get upset about living here, this is the reason.

~ Catherine

Same.

It really saddens me.

And me...and I'm the USC. It seems to be a dog eat dog world sometimes here. JMHO of course.

I know many USC who would also agree. My husband and his family all agree. His parents can afford good insurance, but even they think about the bigger picture. As much as I have differences with my MIL she does think about the bigger picture and I do respect that.

I have a few friends who don't see the bigger picture though. They say things like: "I don't trust the government making decisions for me when it comes to health care" but you'll trust an insurance company who seems more concerned with the bottom line and profits?

That's the truth there. You're not a patient at the hospital...you are a number and a dollar sign...IF you have insurance.

[rae_and_scott 1]

I have experienced both systems, and I have also lived in both countries without any insurance at different times. While I certainly wouldn't say that Canada's system is perfect, America's is certainly broken. The fact of the matter is that our system in America is about profit. That is the bottom line. It is money, and not healthcare, that is what is most important in this system.

As an aside, an excellent book about the healthcare system with regards to childbirth is Misconceptions, by Naomi Wolf. I would strongly recommend it to anyone, even if you don't want children or have already had them.

I also want to point out that not all Americans are "afraid" of socialist healthcare. Some of us want it very much. As Sprailenes said, I see it largely being supported by Democrats and not by Republicans. There are many of us out there who are in full support of healthcare reform, and aren't "scared" of it, even if many have not experienced it firsthand.

America is the only Western country without some form of universal healthcare. What makes us think our system is working well, when clearly so many other countries are doing a better job?

[BermyCat 1]

I have to say that I doubt the Canadian healthcare system is scalable to a population the size of the United States'. I say that based on the issues that there are in the Canadian system currently.

Something brand new is going to have to be worked out here. What a daunting task...

~ Catherine