Canadians on US Health Care reform

[lynamon 0]

I have never been very political but I find myself having more of a view and an opinion on politics since moving to the US.

President Obama was in the Cleveland area this past Thursday speaking on Health Care reform (I tried to get tickets without success) and just this last week a co-worker asked me about Canadian Health Care.

As I was born and raised in Hamilton, Ontario I never had a problem getting a doctor, acquiring an appointment and when I needed specialized care, there were never any issues ... and I never saw a bill.

Since moving to the US I have had to learn about the different plans available through my husbands work, about co-pays, deductibles ect ect and I have also had to learn about Medicare and AARP as we take care of my father in law (which I have to admit I'm still not up to speed). It just all seems to be so over complicated ... and it seems that the money paid for coverage is so overinflated with so many loop holes and gaps. The difference in generics and tier meds and the prices that you pay cash or the prices that are charged to the insurance company ... and I've been to many hospitals as my husband has had to undergo some major medical procedures and I really do feel that something with the way this system is right now is so brutally broken and complicated. I don't understand why it is that all Americans are not for Socialized Health Care. I've had a doctor find out that I'm from Canada and comment that I come from a health care system that acually works and two of my husbands doctors that are world renouned actually did their residency in Toronto, Ontario at St. Margarets. I've watched "Sicko" ... and I was just wondering if anyone else coming from Canada has a similar view ... why are Americans so against it?

[Arabella 4]

I have never been very political but I find myself having more of a view and an opinion on politics since moving to the US.

President Obama was in the Cleveland area this past Thursday speaking on Health Care reform (I tried to get tickets without success) and just this last week a co-worker asked me about Canadian Health Care.

As I was born and raised in Hamilton, Ontario I never had a problem getting a doctor, acquiring an appointment and when I needed specialized care, there were never any issues ... and I never saw a bill.

Since moving to the US I have had to learn about the different plans available through my husbands work, about co-pays, deductibles ect ect and I have also had to learn about Medicare and AARP as we take care of my father in law (which I have to admit I'm still not up to speed). It just all seems to be so over complicated ... and it seems that the money paid for coverage is so overinflated with so many loop holes and gaps. The difference in generics and tier meds and the prices that you pay cash or the prices that are charged to the insurance company ... and I've been to many hospitals as my husband has had to undergo some major medical procedures and I really do feel that something with the way this system is right now is so brutally broken and complicated. I don't understand why it is that all Americans are not for Socialized Health Care. I've had a doctor find out that I'm from Canada and comment that I come from a health care system that acually works and two of my husbands doctors that are world renouned actually did their residency in Toronto, Ontario at St. Margarets. I've watched "Sicko" ... and I was just wondering if anyone else coming from Canada has a similar view ... why are Americans so against it?

I'm the American and I think one of our greatest fears is that if we let the government take over our healthcare that they can deny us a medical procedure.

I used to be a military wife, and the military uses a form of "socialized medicine" so I have had experience with both. I have head Americans say things like, "Would the government deny an 82 year-old man a surgery that cost $20k if he has a 2 year life expectancy?" Other Americans say they don't want to have to pay for other people's medical insurance. I am not sure what would cost me more, a tax increase to pay for socialized medicine, or having my family on my insurance plan. I am lucky that my kids have their dad's military insurance (which is free), so I only have to pay $19.97 every 2 weeks for my coverage through my employer.

Once Sean moves here, I will have to add him to my plan, and it jumps from $19.97 a paycheck to $186.12 a paycheck to cover the both of us (that's every two weeks). When we have kids of our own the family rate is $253.14 every two weeks, so over $500 a month!

That's just for medical. Dental and vision are very cheap and I believe you have to pay for those in Canada, correct?

I would be ok with socialized medicine but I don't really understand what, if anything, I would be giving up.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Arabella

[lynamon 0]

I've heard the term being "lucky" alot when people are referring to how much they spend on insurance ... but I've also had conversations with people that are self employed that really aren't so lucky ... . I know people that don't go to the doctors when they really really should because they can't afford the out of pocket expenses and other people that have had to claim bankruptsy due to medical expenses from a car accident that no average individual could possibly pay .. for a child that was covered under medicare .. these are expenses that went over and above just to get their child taken care of.

I don't see a huge difference in what we pay for things here and what we pay for things in Canada ... except for of course gas ... minimum wage is higher there adjusted to the cost of living... and I make around the same amount here than I did in Canada and my responsibility for health care on my income taxes was a whopping $300 ... a year ... I paid for medical and dental through my work ...and that was an option ... which I paid out about the same that I utilized.

My husband has worked the same job for 12 years and heaven forbid if he had to change jobs or worse yet lose it .. with his medical history ... I just wonder why this has to be a worry.

[Malrothien 6]

Sicko isn't that accurate a representation of health care in Canada. It's a shock-u-mentary.

[minnew 4]

The healthcare system in the US in broken, for sure but I don't believe socialized medicine for everyone will fix it. I understand that alot of people have lost their jobs and lost their employer insurance, again I don't believe government healthcare will fix it. Look at all the other countries with socialized medicine, it does not work as well as it sounds. But neither is the US system, I don't know what the answer is.

Some provinces have allowed people to use private insurance because of the very long waits for simple diagnostic tests and of course much needed surgeries that would save their life. Not in SK, the unions here wouldn't have it. In SK the waiting times are so long, and the patients of course are prioritized but when they are dying on waiting lists I think there is a problem. Would they have died anyways even with surgery? Who knows, but 6 months to get diagnosed! Then prob another 6 months to a year to have surgery!!! My uncle won't have his cancer surgery until August or Sept, but it could get delayed, meaning he won't make it to my wedding, he got diagnosed in March! My fiance's half -brothers wife had breast cancer surgery in the US within a month of her being diagnosed.

I just don't know what the answer is unfortunately.

Obama is "reforming" the health care system, but yet won't talk about what that entails..saying to the people "trust me" Its going to cost alot of money to go to a socialized system.

I saw this ad on TV and its a Canadian with a message to Americans about governement healthcare.

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[trailmix 77]

why are Americans so against it?

Because they did not grow up with it. I used to wonder about that, I used to wonder about pro-gun groups etc etc - then I just realized, after being here a while that it is all unknown to them.

I don't blame them for being a bit scared of it, since they don't understand it - however it would be great if more did a little homework on it.

As minnew said, the Canadian system is not perfect - however we must keep in mind that the U.S. system is not going to mimic the Canadian system. Also, at least Obama is trying.

Edited July 25, 2009 by trailmix

[SapphireDreams 71]

Wow that commercial is horrible.

The one thing that really bums me out about U.S. healthcare is that I feel like is a lot more reactive than proactive. When I was in Canada and I felt sick, even if it wasn't that bad, I'd go see my Dr. Here in the U.S. I would probably wait until it got really bad.

I've never encountered any issues with healthcare in Canada. My grandmother had a stroke not too long ago and she got first class treatment immediately following. No waiting for an MRI or anything like that.

My cousin was diagnosed with a brain tumor and cancer and she received treatment immediately and had 2 open brain surgeries with some of the best Dr.'s in Canada immediately. She made it through and never waited even a day to get treatment. I'm not sure if maybe people in rural areas have to wait... but in my experience my family members with major health concerns were treated fast.

But I think Trailmix is right, Americans are just used to what they know. Just as Canadians are used to what they know.

[Sprailenes 47]

I feel really passionate about health care. You just don't know what you got until it's gone.

I was complaining about my employers new health care plan to husbands family and they seemed unfazed by it. They seemed to think it was normal.

However when I told my friends and family about it from Canada about it, they were shocked.

[Rhiannercakes 14]

I have yet to experience my fiance's health care, but his sounds pretty good. I don't know the exact cost, but I don't think it's really that bad, and it covers dental and vision as well. Also covers surgery and childbirth from what he's told me, once you pay the hospital's co-pay. The doctor co-pay is also cheap, which wouldn't turn me off from going to a doctor.

(Of course, this is me saying this without actually going through it yet.)

I'm also currently living with no medical coverage other than the basics that OHIP covers. So I have to pay for all my prescriptions and have no dental/vision coverage... and probably other stuff I am unaware of.

And I must say, my family doctor is terrible. She's quite uncaring and tells me things that AREN'T normal are normal.

I guess her treatment of my potential problems really turns me off of Canadian health care, since it's not easy to switch doctors.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Rhiann

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I have experienced both the Canadian and US health care systems. I have a chronic medical condition that requires ongoing medication and regular visits with a specialist. In Canada my prescriptions were covered by my employer's health plan - I paid for them and was reimbursed so I know the costs involved. I was hospitalized several times for emergencies and was always seen quickly and treated quickly. I was always able to get an appointment with my doctors right away and I was always able to get an appointment with a dentist right away in an emergency. Sometimes I had to wait in the waiting room to see the doctor but the wait was not very long.

In the US I had to wait 3 months before I was able to see the specialist - that was the earliest appointment. I had to wait 6 months for an appointment at the family doctor for my annual physical. I have waited upwards of 5 hours in doctor's offices for my appointment, having arrived 30 minutes early. I have co pays of $20 for my family doctor but $40 for any other doctors. Our insurance pays between 50 to 90% of the regular tests I need, although once a year they will pay 100% if its part of my annual physical. If I have more than 4 of these tests a year then they are no longer covered and I have to pay the whole thing (4 is the minimum I need per year). I can't get an emergency appointment with any of the doctors or dentists - generally I need to wait for a few days to the next appointment or go to the walk in clinic and wait 4 to 5 hours before they can squeeze me in. We pay about $600 a month in premiums for medical plus another $100 a month for dental and vision care. Prescription copays run us another several hundred dollars a month. Interestingly, the co-pays for my prescriptions are the same amount as the whole prescription cost in Canada. The insurance company tries to dictate what medicine it wants me to take rather than allowing the doctor to prescribe it and because one of the medicines I take isn't 'their' choice, they only cover 50% of it rather than the 90% they would cover for their preferred option. ( We tried their preferred option - it didn't do the job).

I had an emergency a few years ago and rushed to the hospital with stroke symptoms (the whole right side of my body went numb in 5 minutes). I didn't see any medical staff for over 3 hours and then a nurse came in to take my vitals. It was over 6 hours before I saw a doctor who immediately admitted me for a probable stroke. That was one of the most frightening and frustrating nights of my life knowing that if it was a stroke they only had a few hours in order to treat it to prevent permanent damage. If it had been a stroke I might not have made it. (It was a ruptured disk that compressed major nerves in my spine that caused the numbness and partial paralysis). I was in hospital for 1 1/2 days and discharged only knowing it wasn't a stroke and not knowing what it was (took my chiropractor to diagnose it from x rays). Our hospital bill was nearly $15,000 of which we had to pay nearly $4000.

I have to make sure whatever medical provider I see is in-network for our insurance so it may mean I can't see the doctor who is closest but have to drive 20 miles to get the one who is accepted. I have to have pre-approval for certain treatments so doesn't matter if the doctor thinks it is necessary - it is the insurance company who decides whether I get a certain test or procedure or not. My needs are irrelevant in the equation.

I have spent hours on the phone tallking to doctor's offices and insurance offices trying to correct the mistakes each have made on invoices and statements. I carefully match up each itemized medical statement with the insurance statement and compare what is supposed to be covered at what rate against what is actually paid. I have saved us over $1500 each year on billing errors (there has never yet been an error in our favour) where there was an incorrect code or an incorrect percentage charged that reduced the amount of coverage we should have received. I have also learned from talking with other Canadians that they have experienced the same need to check and challenge and correct billing errors. I feel they should pay me for having to do their job!

And you know the worst of this? We have GOOD medical insurance. I have no idea what will happen after my husband retires in a few years. He will be eligible for medicare but I will not and it is very unlikely we will find a private insurer who will insure me with my pre-existing condition. I may very well be required to leave the US in order to afford health care. Often the 'what-if's keep me awake at night.

So, having experienced both the US and the Canadian systems - and the Canadian system when all I had was OHIP as well - I would take the Canadian system over the US system any day of the week.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Kathryn41

[Misty1979 0]

This is one of those subjects I just can't seem to make up my mind on. I as well really didn't keep up much with politics before moving to the US, but now that I'm here I find myself listening more and more to political debates of talks of the health care over-haul.

I think most Americans biggest issue with Canadian health care is that they consider it a socialist type system, and they also hear that we wait long periods of time to be looked after. I think the longest I ever waited for non-emergency care was 2 weeks, and the longest I ever waited for a semi-emergency was 3 hours.

Like someone else said earlier, Americans didn't grow up with government health care, so they're afraid of it, and that's completely understandable. However, even though so many people down here consider our government to be border line Socialist, take note that Canada is also listed as the 9th (or 14th, can't remember the exact placement,) happiest country in the world. Pretty darn good, considering how many countries occupy this planet.

I often think though, that any form of government run health care being implemented down here at the current economic state would be an economical chaos. I just can't see it being feasible until the US starts to dig itself out of this never ending hole of debt we've landed in. I think definitely some changes need to be put into place, and soon at that, but I also don't particularly agree with the way Obama plans on doing it.

I really do feel grateful to have grown up with Canada's health care which is a large part of the reason both my husband and I plan on retiring there. I can't imagine being old and watching our health degenerate and not being able to afford to look after each other. That scares me.

[Sprailenes 47]

I had to go to the emergency room once while living here. Last year I had an asthma attack and was rushed to the hospital. I can't speak for all hospitals but the nurses in the ER just seemed like I was a burden on them and they continuously stated that I should have called my doctor before coming to the hospital.

I'll remember that! The next time I can't breath I'll attempt to pick up the phone and call my doctor on a Saturday and see if it's necessary I seek the treatment from the ER because my inhaler won't do ####### for me.

Lovely.

I don't care if I have insurance, or if my husband has insurance. I am worried about all of the Americans who don't have insurance. When I first started working here, I started out at a hotel, and I spoke to many people who worked hard every day but who couldn't afford insurance. I found that pretty disgusting. The stories I heard were absolutely horrible. It's not all about you, or your insurance... it's about the country as a whole. I just feel like many Americans are forgetting about their fellow Americans when it comes to health care.

[Ontarkie 14,133]

I worry about my asthma here too. 3 of us have asthma its under control but with as many allergies as we have it can get ugly fast. I hate how they give us the run around on the puffers we use, like the steroid. We left Canada using flovent and salbutamol ( we get down here and get put on symbicort then after a year on that we get switched to pulmicort cause the insurance felt like it. And how the manufacturers don't have a generic brand yet for albuterol so we have to pay an arm and a leg for the name brand. it irritates me because we have the generic brands back home for the longest time.

Anyways, living in the Sault my whole life I got some of the crappy end of the health care like no Doctor for 5 yrs and the walk in clinics being backed up 5 hours or just not being opened at all, to having my son break his arm and not having one of the 5 orthopedic surgeons come in so they send us to Timmins to get his arm set. My daughter and other son got treatment right away. My daughter had her appendix burst she had a CAT scan right away and surgery done before morning. My oldest boy broke his arm and had surgery right away too. It all depends in the Sault who's turn for their specialist to take off Timmins Sudbury or the Sault. I guess if its real b ad they get called anyways but its their way of making it known that the doctors need help out here.

Now I like the easy access of Doctors here they are everywhere, its not that long of a wait to see most of the specialist we had to see, but I can't compare Central Arkansas to Sault Ste. Marie cause its not a fair comparison. We are in the middle of it all here and in the Sault well your in the middle of know where.

The cost of insurance for the 6 of us is crazy the co pays are just dumb and we don't have vision or dental, drugs are still more expansive then we pay back in Canada. So ya I would love to have what I had back in Canada but have the extra doctors and easier access to them then the Sault. But I guess I could of moved out of the Sault and got that too. I miss health care in Canada.

Hope I didn't ramble on and made sense

Danielle

[thetreble 19]

Two different people with two different sets of ideals and values.

When you grow up in a system based upon Capitalism, you get the US health care system. Everything is about insurance and pharmaceutical companies. There is so much $$ to be had.

We must remember that the nation of America was founded upon the principles of little to NO government interference that came right from the Founding Fathers. So, of course Americans would be frightened. There is no trust in government to run business of any kind, especially after what has happened in the last year. If I knew no different, I'd probably be just as concerned about health care reform. What will the government's role be? What kinds of things will I get and what kind of things won't I receive?

When you grow up in a system based upon more socialist ideals, you get the Canadian health care system. Everything is about treating as many patients as possible and the right to basic treatment. Big business doesn't play that big of a role.

People don't like change. And I think that in the US, they have all kinds of other things to think of. While I'm sure Canada has some illegal immigrants, what happens to the x-million illegal immigrants in the US? Do they get the right to free care? How will it be paid for? Will you need secondary insurance still?

I do think it's funny, though, this misconception about wait times. Feels like from years of trickling down stories, a game of telephone has been created.

"I heard about this one woman who went to the emergency room because her arm had been severed and she waited for 12 hours before they helped her...."

You get my point.

I will say though that I have now not seen a dentist in over 3 years and that's not good. My teeth are definitely getting gross. I have dental coverage now but the closest dentist in my network is 25 miles away.

Edited July 26, 2009 by thetreble

[Sprailenes 47]

I also guess it depends on which Americans you talk to also. My husband, my in-laws, and certain friends do believe in the health care system I tell them about. Not every American is against the system that we are so used to. Many are open to it... I guess it depends on which end of the spectrum they fall. I find many democrats believe in the system, while many republicans don't.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Sprailenes