Green Card as ID to Purchase Liquor

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

I've wondered about this. I initially told my wife not to carry her green card. It's $340 or something like that to replace it. I figured her Texas state ID card would be fine for anything. Then I read somewhere that it is required for her to have her green card to prove residency in case asked by ICE. Not really sure what is true.

Sorry for the semi-hijacking of the thread.

while it's a quandrary, an alternative is to get a notarized copy of the gc for her to carry while the gc is safely stored at home.

and agreed with minya about writing the corporation. it's asinine they won't accept a government issued id.

[P&R 1]

Every place has their different rules for purchasing alcohol. I've worked as a bartender in Texas and got certified through a course for it. Though there are no laws stating that you have to show proof of age, but to protect the person/establishment selling alcohol, we need to see valid proof. The items that can be used to show proof are a Texas State ID or Drivers License. I was told while being certified that the only proof that would keep me from being liable is a Texas ID or License. If someone came to me with a passport or even military ID, I could still be charged if something went wrong.

Now a days, stores and bars or places that serve liquor can be criminally charged for alcohol related issues. Even the waitresses and store clerks can receive jail time, for possible offenses. People are very careful and they should be.

I know its a hassle that they won't accept your GC for age proof, but to be honest, if I was tending bar and that's all you had to show me, I wouldn't sell to you either. Sorry.

[JeremyR 8]

The items that can be used to show proof are a Texas State ID or Drivers License. I was told while being certified that the only proof that would keep me from being liable is a Texas ID or License. If someone came to me with a passport or even military ID, I could still be charged if something went wrong.

So how does someone from out of state or country buy alcohol in TX?

[furiousng 2]

The items that can be used to show proof are a Texas State ID or Drivers License. I was told while being certified that the only proof that would keep me from being liable is a Texas ID or License. If someone came to me with a passport or even military ID, I could still be charged if something went wrong.

So how does someone from out of state or country buy alcohol in TX?

They get folks to buy it for them!!!

[Ling Ling 22]

I'm sure it was the store's mistake or perhaps store policy. No one is "required" to sell you anything.

If you have nothing to add to this topic, please keep moving...the intent of this forum is to HELP.

It's not about anyone being "required" to sell anything. However, they are required to abide by local, state and federal laws. The issue at hand is about a lack of consistency in practice, whereas they recognize an LPR card in one instance (for employment verfication), and not another (sales), as well as instituting (and enforcing) a corporate guideline that is not in keeping with the current legal statute.

The matter is all about attitude adjustment. The store violated no laws. Inconsistency in the private sector is part of the American culture. You have no legitimate complaint here.

Unless you've read through the entire Liquor Act, and were witness to the incident, your judgement is entirely without merit.

Sitting by and be satisfied with inconsistency may be part of your American culture, but not mine.

Thanks for your opinion and assistance. It's been very insightful and helpful.

[In Gods Hands 0]

*Not sure if this is the right forum...mods feel free to move as appropriate*

Has anyone (of legal age) been refused the sale of liquor, when using a Legal Permanent Resident ID as proof of age?

We live in Texas and my husband was refused the sale of cigarettes (had it been liquor, he would be denied that too) from 7-11. He presented his GC, passport, visa. All he had at the time, but was still refused and told he needed a government issued I.D. like a TX drivers license (which he didnt have). He then went next door to another convenience store and had no problem there. We then obtained a state i.d. My husband now works at a convenience store and has his TABC (Texas Alcohol Beverage Commission) permit. The store he works for accepts visa & GC as well as other forms of I.D. as proof of age.

Below is from this site: http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforcement/age_verification.asp

I hope it helps[/i]

Age Verification / Checking IDs

Company Policies

Some retailers in Texas have policies requiring that customers provide proof of age for all alcoholic beverage purchases, regardless of the age of the customer.

There are some other retailers in Texas that will only accept a Texas Driver's License or Texas Identification Card as “valid identification” to purchase alcoholic beverages.

Some retailers will insist that everyone in a group show proof that they are 21 or over when anyone in the group is attempting to purchase alcoholic beverages. This is an attempt to prevent adults from illegally providing alcohol to minors.

These are internal company policies and are more strict that what state law requires. However, these establishments have the legal right to insist on proof of age for alcohol purchases.

State Law

Texas state law does not require that a person over 21 provide any identification to purchase alcohol in Texas. There is nothing in the law that declares specific forms of ID as “valid” for an alcohol purchase.

However, the law does provide a statutory defense to the charge of selling an alcoholic beverage to a minor when the seller has asked for and examined an apparently valid DPS issued Texas DL or ID card which contains a physical description consistent with the presenter's appearance and shows the presenter to be 21 years of age of older.

For that reason, since store clerks, wait staff, and bartenders can be held criminally liable for selling alcohol to a minor, they often require a Texas Driver's License or Texas Identification Card issued by the Department of Public Safety, to prove that the person really is 21.

A store, bar or restaurant might or might not sell alcohol to a person with an out-of-state driver's license, military ID, or passport. What's acceptable in any establishment is a matter of that establishment's private business policies.

If the patron is obviously over 21, the establishment may not require any ID at all.

Having Difficulty Purchasing Alcoholic Beverages?

State law dictates that new residents moving into Texas, who have a valid driver license from their home state, have 30 days after entry into the state to secure a Texas driver license. A Texas driver's license costs $24.

Students or military personnel who are living in Texas temporarily may obtain an official Identification Card from the Texas Department of Public Safety without giving up their out-of-state driver's license. They can obtain one for $15.

Visitors to Texas who are not obviously over 21 may have difficulty purchasing alcoholic beverages in some establishments.

What About Cigarettes?

Unlike alcohol, state and federal law says that anyone under 27 must show identification before purchasing cigarettes. Also different from alcohol, state law provides a statutory defense to the charge of selling cigarettes to someone under 18 when the buyer presented to the defendant apparently valid proof of identification issued by a governmental agency (including a military ID, passport, or out-of-state driver's license). TABC does not regulate the sale of cigarettes, and any further questions regarding tobacco should be directed to the Office of the State Comptroller.

Edited July 23, 2009 by AhmadGwen4evr

[JeremyR 8]

We live in Texas and my husband was refused the sale of cigarettes (had it been liquor, he would be denied that too) from 7-11. He presented his GC, passport, visa. All he had at the time, but was still refused and told he needed a government issued I.D. like a TX drivers license (which he didnt have). He then went next door to another convenience store and had no problem there

See that sort of thing would bug me no end. All of the items he presented were government-issued ID - just not Texas government-issued ID. Surely Federal Government-issued ID should trump state-issued in terms of authority?

Something tells me it's all a matter of company policy and #######-covering. Someone from on high at 7-11 and the store that kicked off this whole thread who had no knowledge of what kinds of legitimate ID are regularly presented on the shop floor presumably issued an edict to be followed or be fired. Can't blame the staff for following orders to keep their jobs but the companies should be made to reconsider...

[In Gods Hands 0]

We live in Texas and my husband was refused the sale of cigarettes (had it been liquor, he would be denied that too) from 7-11. He presented his GC, passport, visa. All he had at the time, but was still refused and told he needed a government issued I.D. like a TX drivers license (which he didnt have). He then went next door to another convenience store and had no problem there

See that sort of thing would bug me no end. All of the items he presented were government-issued ID - just not Texas government-issued ID. Surely Federal Government-issued ID should trump state-issued in terms of authority?

Something tells me it's all a matter of company policy and #######-covering. Someone from on high at 7-11 and the store that kicked off this whole thread who had no knowledge of what kinds of legitimate ID are regularly presented on the shop floor presumably issued an edict to be followed or be fired. Can't blame the staff for following orders to keep their jobs but the companies should be made to reconsider...

Yes I agree. It was their company policy. The employee (clerk and mgr) mistakenly said gov issued I.D. but were obviously meaning state. The mgr there is misinformed also when he said it's "the law".. nope it's their company's procedures. It's rediculous for sure, somewhat discriminative and a definate loss for their business from visitors & newcomers. I hope this is not something that all 7-eleven's practice.

[moonhunt 1]

*Not sure if this is the right forum...mods feel free to move as appropriate*

Has anyone (of legal age) been refused the sale of liquor, when using a Legal Permanent Resident ID as proof of age?

It should be fine.

But remember that most American may not know much about immigration.

We are familiar with USCIS and immigration stuffs.

But most ordinary people doesn't know much about it.

So they may think like...

What the heck is this?

Is this fake ID, which can purchase from the street ?

I don't care.

It is not State ID or Driver License, so I can not trust this.

Let's think this way.

If the ID badge from State Department have DOB printed, can it be acceptable as age proof in the store?

It's up to store policy.

But Green Card is new for a lot of born-in US Citizen.

So they just think it is one of untrusted source ID.

Also, most western people can not identify asian people's age.

But you can mention your wife, "you look so beautiful, and so young! I envy you!"

Edited July 23, 2009 by moonhunt

[Ling Ling 22]

*Not sure if this is the right forum...mods feel free to move as appropriate*

Has anyone (of legal age) been refused the sale of liquor, when using a Legal Permanent Resident ID as proof of age?

It should be fine.

But remember that most American may not know much about immigration.

We are familiar with USCIS and immigration stuffs.

But most ordinary people doesn't know much about it.

So they may think like...

What the heck is this?

Is this fake ID, which can purchase from the street ?

I don't care.

It is not State ID or Driver License, so I can not trust this.

Let's think this way.

If the ID badge from State Department have DOB printed, can it be acceptable as age proof in the store?

It's up to store policy.

But Green Card is new for a lot of born-in US Citizen.

So they just think it is one of untrusted source ID.

Also, most western people can not identify asian people's age.

But you can mention your wife, "you look so beautiful, and so young! I envy you!"

Hi Moonhunt, I almost agree with you. The stores aren't completely ignorant to immigration and the LPR/Green Card.

The I-9 (employment eligibility form) lists the LPR card as a primary ID.

I agree with those who said "They're following store policy...covering their butts", but store policy shouldn't take precedence over the law.

LPRs are "government issued IDs" and they meet the requirements for identification according to ALL the liquor laws I've seen.

I can't believe it's OK to use an LPR to hire someone and give them access to your place of business, but not OK to sell them a bottle of wine.

Makes absolutely no since to me.

I appreciate the feedback, and your sharing your personal experiences.

For me, it's the principal. My wife, like many of your spouses, is already burdened with going through the US immigration process, and has a "government issued ID", there's no good reason that until she gets her state DL, that she should be compelled/forced to get a state ID or not be able to enjoy the same LIBERTIES as any other law-abiding adult in the US.

[TBoneTX 45,266]

Moonhunt's take does make sense, si man. Were it not for my own immersion in the immigration process, I would not have the foggiest clue about how to recognize a green card, let alone much about its significance.

OP, if it still bothers you enough, how about writing a letter to the headquarters of the offending retailer, bringing up some of the logical points that have been presented here? You may receive a receptive reply, especially if you craft your approach to include some gentle educational aspects. Even if the response is a "form letter," at least you will have done your part (on your behalf and that of others) to raise awareness.

[Ling Ling 22]

Moonhunt's take does make sense, si man. Were it not for my own immersion in the immigration process, I would not have the foggiest clue about how to recognize a green card, let alone much about its significance.

OP, if it still bothers you enough, how about writing a letter to the headquarters of the offending retailer, bringing up some of the logical points that have been presented here? You may receive a receptive reply, especially if you craft your approach to include some gentle educational aspects. Even if the response is a "form letter," at least you will have done your part (on your behalf and that of others) to raise awareness.

Thanks TBone...already in the works. I'm in touch with the retailer's headquarters, as well as the state liquor training program to include the lpr/green card in their training and publications. Really not on my behalf, because my wife usually insists that I go to the store with her (and she'll have her DL soon), more for the other families that are part of the VisaJourney.

[ziia 9]

*Not sure if this is the right forum...mods feel free to move as appropriate*

Has anyone (of legal age) been refused the sale of liquor, when using a Legal Permanent Resident ID as proof of age?

I once tryed to use my Romanian passport to purchase cigarettes and was refused. I couldn't believe the ignorance and stupidity of some people though i have a feeling at the gas station where i was trying to purchase them it was working an older woman who was always rude to me(suspected at the time because of my strong accent).

I am a bit fisty and started fighting with her. I asked her who in their right mind would falsify a passport(that what she told me, that she has no idea if my passport is fake or not) and a Romanian one too!!? She sais she doesn't know but she can't tell wether that is a good form of ID or not. I told her i will not leave(walk since i had no Driver License at the time) home without my smokes and will stay in her store untill she gives me the cigarettes or untill her boss arrives. That is all I had to say. She gave it to me.

People are eighter ignorant or make discriminations(often think you're stupid and you don't know what to do because you have a strong accent). For that there is only one cure-"Can I talk to your manager?" cure!

[TBoneTX 45,266]

I'm in touch with the retailer's headquarters, as well as the state liquor training program to include the lpr/green card in their training and publications.

Well, if something good results from it, everyone's ahead of the game, si man. Please let us know what they say!