Welcome new members!

[BluesTraveler 0]

"If something happens, you shoot me, OK? I'm not getting my head cut off on Al-Jazeera."

You gotta love "Body of Lies"

[slim 1,514]

If we let in Ireland,Canada, Oman and Niger, we can be "RUBICON"

Will Jeeps be mandatory at that point?

I've been to 3 out of 4 of those countries and I gotta say, not a single one can produce sour cream in the bulk we need it. And only 1/2 of them can even drink with us, so..... my vote goes for NO on the RUBICON. Well, unless Jeeps are mandatory at that time.

"If something happens, you shoot me, OK? I'm not getting my head cut off on Al-Jazeera."

You gotta love "Body of Lies"

If people could connect the dots between Body of Lies, Lions for Lambs, Syriana, and a few other good ones, we wouldn't be in the process of "changing" our country right now.

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

If we let in Ireland,Canada, Oman and Niger, we can be "RUBICON"

Will Jeeps be mandatory at that point?

Unfortunately everyone only knows the word Rubicon from the name of some car, truth is it comes from ancient rome, prior to Julius Caesar becoming emperor his army was on the verge of entering Rome, the senate said no army may enter Rome you must stop at the Rubicon river, Caesar crossed it starting a civil war. Rubicon by definition is an entry way or line that when crossed can never be returned through.

I've been to 3 out of 4 of those countries and I gotta say, not a single one can produce sour cream in the bulk we need it. And only 1/2 of them can even drink with us, so..... my vote goes for NO on the RUBICON. Well, unless Jeeps are mandatory at that time.

Well that should be where every diplomat arrangement must start with a game of quarters, this also solves any issues with the middle east most of them cant drink, another problem with Islam, see us catholics encourage drinking we even serve wine to minors in church.

If people could connect the dots between Body of Lies, Lions for Lambs, Syriana, and a few other good ones, we wouldn't be in the process of "changing" our country right now.

This is why our educational system is so bad in this country, noone can even connect dots any more, mostly because the teachers were too busy doing dots in college.

[BluesTraveler 0]

If people could connect the dots between Body of Lies, Lions for Lambs, Syriana, and a few other good ones, we wouldn't be in the process of "changing" our country right now.

Honestly never a big W fan, but the one thing he did understand. Democracy empowers citizens and democracy reduces warfare. Bringing democracy into Middle Eastern countries will eventually reduce the vise grip the religious fundamentalists have on their countries. Reduce that vise grip, you start reducing terrorism.

Reference: "How to Win a Cosmic War: God, Globalization, and the End of the War on Terror" by Reza Aslan.

Edited July 21, 2009 by BluesTraveler

[mox 298]

I foresee great things for this thread.

The thing "W" and his ilk do not understand, however, is that you cannot "bring" democracy. That's why it's such a shithole right now. Democracy has to spring up from inside. It has to be earned by the blood, sweat, and tears of the citizenry, not imposed from the outside.

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

I foresee great things for this thread.

The thing "W" and his ilk do not understand, however, is that you cannot "bring" democracy. That's why it's such a shithole right now. Democracy has to spring up from inside. It has to be earned by the blood, sweat, and tears of the citizenry, not imposed from the outside.

I agree you cant force democracy just like you couldnt force communism or any other form of economy of government.

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

If people could connect the dots between Body of Lies, Lions for Lambs, Syriana, and a few other good ones, we wouldn't be in the process of "changing" our country right now.

Honestly never a big W fan, but the one thing he did understand. Democracy empowers citizens and democracy reduces warfare. Bringing democracy into Middle Eastern countries will eventually reduce the vise grip the religious fundamentalists have on their countries. Reduce that vise grip, you start reducing terrorism.

Be careful this democracy has a whole lot of religious fundamentalists in it. The founding fathers forsaw what religion can do to a government that is why they put separation of church and state in the constitution, unfortunately too many ill thinking people keep trying to put it back in. Belief in god is not religion, it does not specify a faith its deism and if your god has a name, Jehovah, Budda, Vishnu, mohammed, or whomever practice your religion however you see fit and respect the fact that I want to practice my faith and not be converted. Just like with girls No means No, I dont want your pamphlet, I dont want to be a witness, I want to believe what I believe so leave me alone.

[Brad and Vika 129]

This is awesome, this means fewer interlopers(possible exception *Len* but no secret handshake), more pie, more guns, shared ammo boxes, fun for all and I like eekee's sugestions can we just refer to ourselves as RUB. Like you RUB my back Ill RUB yours.

I heard on the radio today that there is a nationwide shortage of ammo. Is it true, and why? The radio commentator was calling it part of the "Obama effect", but I don't see the connection.

I foresee great things for this thread.

The thing "W" and his ilk do not understand, however, is that you cannot "bring" democracy. That's why it's such a shithole right now. Democracy has to spring up from inside. It has to be earned by the blood, sweat, and tears of the citizenry, not imposed from the outside.

The often undiscussed alternative is to simply kill the entire indigenious population, pave and landscape over the country, and have Disney put up a theme park. Oh wait, there should also be casinos!

[slim 1,514]

Unfortunately everyone only knows the word Rubicon from the name of some car, truth is it comes from ancient rome, prior to Julius Caesar becoming emperor his army was on the verge of entering Rome, the senate said no army may enter Rome you must stop at the Rubicon river, Caesar crossed it starting a civil war. Rubicon by definition is an entry way or line that when crossed can never be returned through.

The die is cast.

Well that should be where every diplomat arrangement must start with a game of quarters, this also solves any issues with the middle east most of them cant drink, another problem with Islam, see us catholics encourage drinking we even serve wine to minors in church.

Many of the Muslims I've met would drink Catholics under the table.... but only behind closed doors or overseas, because Allah can't see over water.

This is why our educational system is so bad in this country, noone can even connect dots any more, mostly because the teachers were too busy doing dots in college.

I thought Michigan had great public schools, wtfo?

I foresee great things for this thread.

Just like the good ol' days!

The thing "W" and his ilk do not understand, however, is that you cannot "bring" democracy. That's why it's such a shithole right now. Democracy has to spring up from inside. It has to be earned by the blood, sweat, and tears of the citizenry, not imposed from the outside.

Yeah right! Tell that to the Afghans, they've been enjoying foreign-imposed democracy for like, what, a couple years now, right? The Iraqis too! Those are models for our "You'll have democracy and you'll like it" foreign policy. It's bound to work!

I heard on the radio today that there is a nationwide shortage of ammo. Is it true, and why? The radio commentator was calling it part of the "Obama effect", but I don't see the connection.

*climbing up on the soapbox and taking a deep breath*........ Yes, and no.

Several factors are involved here and they are almost all Obama-related, but most are indirectly related unless you have a tinfoil hat on your head. (In that case Obama ordered the government to buy up and destroy all the ammo so nobody else can get it.)

Truth of the matter is it's simple supply and demand. Prior to last November, ammo was bought and sold at a pretty steady rate in the U.S. Ammo wholesalers would order their entire quarterly or yearly supply and manufacture and then sell what they ordered. Numbers were pretty steady and the supply of ammo was pretty constant from the shelf at Wal-Mart all the way to the mine in China.

Well, for some reason, around November of last year, everyone in America (or at least 300% MORE Americans) decided to buy a new gun and a whole bunch of ammo. I'm not really sure what happened in November to make them decide to do that, but something must've happened in our country to where average, everyday people woke up, looked in the mirror, and said, "Oh S#!T. I better go buy an assault rifle and several thousand rounds of ammo today.... before it's too late." (If anyone knows what happened, I'm all ears.)

The consequence of that was the ammo supply companies (all the way from the stock clerk at Wal-Mart to the pick-axe miner in China, with the bean counters in between) had to immediately order 300% more product. With a system that normally could be summarized as an old man placing an order at the beginning of the year for next year's entire shipment now calling the factory and asking for 300% more product, and asking for it not for next year, but for next week.

First to go was surplus rifle ammo because that's what assault rifles shoot. This was further complicated by several factors as well. 223 caliber or 5.56 NATO rounds (AR-15, Mini-14, etc.) are being used in bulk over in Iraq and Afghanistan so the normal suppliers who would've made ammo for the military were now seeing an increased demand for their product back home. Most of the surplus stuff made abroad was completely bought out all the way from the manufacturer. 7.62X39 (AK-47, SKS) which is predominantly made in Russia, was sold out quickly and when demand increased, so did competition from U.S.-backed contracts for the Afghan military. .308 caliber or 7.62X51 NATO (M1A, FAL, G3) has been hard to come by for years since it hasn't been manufactured in bulk for quite some time but once November hit, it was extremely hard to come by and the only good sources were surplus imports from South Africa, Pakistan, etc.

All three of those rounds doubled, tripled, and even quadrupled in price within about two months. If you could find it at all, it was SUPER expensive compared to what it once was. For those who didn't know any better, that didn't really matter anyway and they bought ALL OF IT.

The good news is, supply is starting to catch back up to demand and the international market, always keen to make a buck, has been ramping up production and any old ammo sitting in a bunker in some thirdworld shithole has finally found it's way onto a cargo ship headed right back here to the U.S. (where it was originally made) so rich Americans can put it in their basements. Prices have started to come back down a little and availability has been better. However, at present, we're left in that inbetween stage where stooges are still selling (and suckers are still buying) ammo for three times what it's worth. It's possible now to buy ammo for pre-Obama prices and turn right back around and sell it for post-Obama profits.

The rifle ammo blitz dominoed into handgun ammo and even .22LR plinking ammo. Used to be, you could get a box of 500 .22LR from Wal-Mart for about $6 and go shooting all weekend. Well, they're not stupid so now it's like $16 and always sold out. It's not like the U.S. government created huge surplus stockpiles of .22LR and has now sold it all to civilians. Plain and simple, there just wasn't enough to go around. There will be though. Demand will die down, supply will increase, and sooner or later, folks will understand that 12 ga. buckshot is the best way to go, hands down.

It's very similar to what happened with gasoline. They got crazy high, then came back down a little, then back up, and are now balanced out at a price that's higher than what it used to be. But, at least we can still get gas. Ammo will be back to that point again soon.

The really scary thing is, our food supply chain works exactly the same way! Imagine what would happen if food quadrupled in price and was only available in certain parts of the country or on certain days.... BETTER BUY SOME AMMO!!!

The often undiscussed alternative is to simply kill the entire indigenious population, pave and landscape over the country, and have Disney put up a theme park. Oh wait, there should also be casinos!

Utopia.

Edited July 22, 2009 by slim

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

This is why our educational system is so bad in this country, noone can even connect dots any more, mostly because the teachers were too busy doing dots in college.

I thought Michigan had great public schools, wtfo?

Dont know I didnt go to public school I went to a private catholic school where the teachers are underpaid, often drink with the students behind the gym, the biggest problems are if they find out you got pregnant or got someone pregnant and the occasional drug bust.

*climbing up on the soapbox and taking a deep breath*........ Yes, and no.

Several factors are involved here and they are almost all Obama-related, but most are indirectly related unless you have a tinfoil hat on your head. (In that case Obama ordered the government to buy up and destroy all the ammo so nobody else can get it.)

Truth of the matter is it's simple supply and demand. Prior to last November, ammo was bought and sold at a pretty steady rate in the U.S. Ammo wholesalers would order their entire quarterly or yearly supply and manufacture and then sell what they ordered. Numbers were pretty steady and the supply of ammo was pretty constant from the shelf at Wal-Mart all the way to the mine in China.

Well, for some reason, around November of last year, everyone in America (or at least 300% MORE Americans) decided to buy a new gun and a whole bunch of ammo. I'm not really sure what happened in November to make them decide to do that, but something must've happened in our country to where average, everyday people woke up, looked in the mirror, and said, "Oh S#!T. I better go buy an assault rifle and several thousand rounds of ammo today.... before it's too late." (If anyone knows what happened, I'm all ears.)

The consequence of that was the ammo supply companies (all the way from the stock clerk at Wal-Mart to the pick-axe miner in China, with the bean counters in between) had to immediately order 300% more product. With a system that normally could be summarized as an old man placing an order at the beginning of the year for next year's entire shipment now calling the factory and asking for 300% more product, and asking for it not for next year, but for next week.

First to go was surplus rifle ammo because that's what assault rifles shoot. This was further complicated by several factors as well. 223 caliber or 5.56 NATO rounds (AR-15, Mini-14, etc.) are being used in bulk over in Iraq and Afghanistan so the normal suppliers who would've made ammo for the military were now seeing an increased demand for their product back home. Most of the surplus stuff made abroad was completely bought out all the way from the manufacturer. 7.62X39 (AK-47, SKS) which is predominantly made in Russia, was sold out quickly and when demand increased, so did competition from U.S.-backed contracts for the Afghan military. .308 caliber or 7.62X51 NATO (M1A, FAL, G3) has been hard to come by for years since it hasn't been manufactured in bulk for quite some time but once November hit, it was extremely hard to come by and the only good sources were surplus imports from South Africa, Pakistan, etc.

All three of those rounds doubled, tripled, and even quadrupled in price within about two months. If you could find it at all, it was SUPER expensive compared to what it once was. For those who didn't know any better, that didn't really matter anyway and they bought ALL OF IT.

The good news is, supply is starting to catch back up to demand and the international market, always keen to make a buck, has been ramping up production and any old ammo sitting in a bunker in some thirdworld shithole has finally found it's way onto a cargo ship headed right back here to the U.S. (where it was originally made) so rich Americans can put it in their basements. Prices have started to come back down a little and availability has been better. However, at present, we're left in that inbetween stage where stooges are still selling (and suckers are still buying) ammo for three times what it's worth. It's possible now to buy ammo for pre-Obama prices and turn right back around and sell it for post-Obama profits.

The rifle ammo blitz dominoed into handgun ammo and even .22LR plinking ammo. Used to be, you could get a box of 500 .22LR from Wal-Mart for about $6 and go shooting all weekend. Well, they're not stupid so now it's like $16 and always sold out. It's not like the U.S. government created huge surplus stockpiles of .22LR and has now sold it all to civilians. Plain and simple, there just wasn't enough to go around. There will be though. Demand will die down, supply will increase, and sooner or later, folks will understand that 12 ga. buckshot is the best way to go, hands down.

It's very similar to what happened with gasoline. They got crazy high, then came back down a little, then back up, and are now balanced out at a price that's higher than what it used to be. But, at least we can still get gas. Ammo will be back to that point again soon.

The really scary thing is, our food supply chain works exactly the same way! Imagine what would happen if food quadrupled in price and was only available in certain parts of the country or on certain days.... BETTER BUY SOME AMMO!!!

That was this week in history or as I like to call it, "Where the Flock are my bullets" Dont worry honey daddy bought a thousand rounds awhile ago and 2 extra magazines for the sig.

[mox 298]

The thought that makes me giggle hysterically is that very likely, a large majority of those idiots who stocked up on ammunition because they just knew Obama was gonna try to take their guns away (despite the fact that it was the previous administration and the losing candidate who had the worse civil liberties records), had to take up government assistance and food stamps because they spent all their money trying to make a stupid point. So the very same dumbasses who are screaming about the illegals using up all of your tax dollars are probably the same ones you are now supporting with your tax dollars because some time around February they figured out that there is more to life than just guns and bullets, such as providing food for your family and rent on your trailer.

[baron555 934]

The thought that makes me giggle hysterically is that very likely, a large majority of those idiots who stocked up on ammunition because they just knew Obama was gonna try to take their guns away (despite the fact that it was the previous administration and the losing candidate who had the worse civil liberties records), had to take up government assistance and food stamps because they spent all their money trying to make a stupid point. So the very same dumbasses who are screaming about the illegals using up all of your tax dollars are probably the same ones you are now supporting with your tax dollars because some time around February they figured out that there is more to life than just guns and bullets, such as providing food for your family and rent on your trailer.

Don't call me an idiot Mox; those rounds of milsurp will go to pay for preschool for the little one. ONLY IN AMERICA!

Bought low and will sell high.

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

because some time around February they figured out that there is more to life than just guns and bullets,

Yeah like PIE!!!!!

[mox 298]

Don't call me an idiot Mox; those rounds of milsurp will go to pay for preschool for the little one. ONLY IN AMERICA!

Bought low and will sell high.

And maybe there'll be enough left over to buy ma her own trailer so she can stop living on your couch. (or is that Slim? I can't keep the rednecks straight around here. )

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

Bought low and will sell high.

What will you sell the ammo for a bag of chronic?