Armed OC Citizen Shoots Robber in the Act

[justashooter 430]

what good would the trained professionals have done for the people after the criminal completed his task of eliminating them?

draw lines around the bodies and take pictures?

when seconds count, the police are just minutes away...

[Peikko 1,575]

You create a culture of fear, you allow for shoot first ask questions later, you glorify those who respond violently to crime, you allow prisons to become ghettos as apposed to institutions of correction and restitution and the result appears to be not a safer, happier society, but a more fearful, violent one. Don't believe me? Well, I have this thread as evidence but more than that, there is a lot of statistical evidence that proves this is true as well as many psychological and criminal studies.

However, the things is that what is more important to you 'gung ho' types is not what is reasonable and affective, but whether you feel in control and only by having a gun to back you up do you feel in control. Sad, but true.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[mawilson 2,133]

At stake is the America of the 1800's

It's sort of funny, but mostly it's pathetic because as Pooky and others have pointed out, it's this very line of thinking, that citizens should do the job more properly reserved for trained professionals, that has had a hand in creating this very violent culture that exists in pockets of America. Would that the rest of it remains outside this frontiersman thinking.

It's called self-reliance. You wouldn't know - they don't teach it in Europe.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

There are some situations where violence can be avoided, this was not one of them. If it is a survival situation with the choices being the criminal or myself or family, I chose myself.

[mawilson 2,133]

you allow prisons to become ghettos as apposed to institutions of correction and restitution

Prisons do not exist to punish or rehabilitate criminals, they exist to keep them away from the rest of us.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There are some situations where violence can be avoided, this was not one of them. If it is a survival situation with the choices being the criminal or myself or family, I chose myself.

The thing I don't understand is how anyone can know with any certainty how they will react under extreme conditions. There was a similar thread a while back slamming the victims of the Virginia Tech shooter for not fighting back - and believe it or not this line of reasoning can be traced back to, among other things, the Holocaust - with people incredulous as to why the victims would not only not try to escape or overpower the camp guards (some did) but why they would actively collude with their captors to facilitate their own destruction (this happened to).

Anyone who can say with certainty how they would react to a scene like Virginia Tech (or a terrorist attack for that matter) is just engaging in lying bravado.

[mawilson 2,133]

If it is a survival situation with the choices being the criminal or myself or family, I chose myself.

Yeah, and screw the family!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If it is a survival situation with the choices being the criminal or myself or family, I chose myself.

Yeah, and screw the family!

Given that you've espoused the view in the past that moral considerations are for the weak, that probably isn't too far off the mark

[Peikko 1,575]

In the US, that's certainly the case much of the time. It is neither cost effective nor effective in reducing criminal activity.

[Peikko 1,575]

At stake is the America of the 1800's

It's sort of funny, but mostly it's pathetic because as Pooky and others have pointed out, it's this very line of thinking, that citizens should do the job more properly reserved for trained professionals, that has had a hand in creating this very violent culture that exists in pockets of America. Would that the rest of it remains outside this frontiersman thinking.

It's called self-reliance. You wouldn't know - they don't teach it in Europe.

Feeling fearful unless you carry a gun is called 'self reliance'? It's called paranoid in my book. The action of the paranoid is to deal inappropriately with day to day situations.

There is no requirement for me to carry a gun as the chances of my being faced with a situation where carrying one would prove beneficial is practically zero. However, if one continues along the line of shoot first ask questions later, there may well come a time where the probability will increase to the level where such a policy makes sense. I would probably retreat to 'Nanny State' Europe, should such circumstances arise. I am not such a fool as to think I have the correct training to be able to effectively respond to a war zone type situation

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I am not such a fool as to think I have the correct training to be able to effectively respond to a war zone type situation

You aren't? How quaint!

I hear that you can get a nice line in bullet proof dress suits nowadays. I just have to figure out if I can get away with it over the top of my full body superhero outfit - I tell you, concealing a cape under your clothes is no mean feat!

[justashooter 430]

You create a culture of fear, you allow for shoot first ask questions later, you glorify those who respond violently to crime, you allow prisons to become ghettos as apposed to institutions of correction and restitution and the result appears to be not a safer, happier society, but a more fearful, violent one. Don't believe me? Well, I have this thread as evidence but more than that, there is a lot of statistical evidence that proves this is true as well as many psychological and criminal studies.

However, the things is that what is more important to you 'gung ho' types is not what is reasonable and affective, but whether you feel in control and only by having a gun to back you up do you feel in control. Sad, but true.

are you drinking today? your spelling is bad and your logic is skewed.

i don't need a gun to back me up. any tool will do, and if need be it's just fists and fingernails, babe. i've been in situations where i have to use them all, and walked (usually) out of them alive and alone. it's a mindset you wouldn't understand.

a gun is not a weapon. it is just a tool. a man is a weapon if he is trained to be. if not, he is useless in a bad moment. any object can be used as a tool by a trained man. a chair is quite effective. a broken bottle, or a tire iron can change the balance of an altercation. even a coffee cup or a pencil can be used as a tool to kill. you just have to be willing to use it.

this willingness is what i am giving to people around me at every chance. it is what leftists are fighting to quell. it is the key to our survival as a nation. it must endure.

am i ever in control? i know i'm never really in control of much. i also know that i am responsible for taking control of my immediate surroundings when i need to. it's how i run my life. i understand that i'm not in control, so i surround myself with people i am willing to share control with (choice of job, neighborhood, wife, friends) and keep my eyes open most of the time.

[Danno 1,228]

Anyone who can say with certainty how they would react to a scene like Virginia Tech (or a terrorist attack for that matter) is just engaging in lying bravado.

There is truth to what you say here, many people,.. most of us have never had this type of experience..... so what?

That some might freeze up means very little and it's no reason to not be prepared in mind and ammo as much as possible.

Most police officers have never fired their weapons even once at someone, do we dismiss them as "unpredictable" and therefore dangerous?

Pike, do you realize how many people own guns in this country?

Where are these nightmare gun owners playing Clint Eastwood at?

Where are these trigger-happy news stories?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sure. A regular Charles Bronson you are

[john & jean 37]

In the US, that's certainly the case much of the time. It is neither cost effective nor effective in reducing criminal activity.

one thing for sure, in this case criminal activity WAS reduced. The armed citizen will be NO BILLED by the courts, and should receive an award for bravery, his actions did SAVE LIVES. As for the cost effectiveness, the ammunition cost was less than two dollars!

YOU should only hope, that if you are in that situation, there will be the some gun carrying citizen around. If not, there will be a paint line on the floor, where the police outlined your body......... and the one beside you will be pike

Edited July 17, 2009 by john & jean